Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)

1. I didn't know it was so bad.

2. Couple of incendiaries,

3. these old buildings go up like cellophane.

4. There's a wall that separates the old section of Nuremberg from the new.

5. Goes back to...

6. How far does it go back, Schmidt?

7. 1219, sir.

8. 1219.

9. This is where the Nazi Party held their rallies, isn't it?

10. They all came here.

11. Hitler. Goebbels. The whole crew.

12. Thousands of them, from all over Germany.

13. Does he have to blow that damn horn so much?

14. It's not necessary to blow the horn so much, Schmidt.

15. You both know your duties?

16. Well, here we are. A little bit of old Germany.

17. - Senator Burkette. - Captain.

18. Captain Byers, this is Judge Haywood.

19. Byers here will be your aide.

20. My What?

21. Clerk. General guide. Liaison.

22. Any capacity you wish to use me in.

23. Oh.

24. This will be your staff, sir. Mr. And Mrs. Halbestadt.

25. Hello.

26. Good afternoon.

27. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

28. Welcome.

29. You've already met your driver, Schmidt.

30. I am at your service, sir, any time you need me. Day or night.

31. Thanks.

32. Let's show him around the rest of the place. Dan?

33. We're in the, uh, reception room.

34. Living room. Study is in there.

35. There are two bedrooms on this floor, three upstairs.

36. Furniture is part antique, part U.S. Army.

37. The piano's showing signs of wear and tear,

38. but it's a genuine Bechstein.

39. Quite a view, isn't it, sir?

40. Yes.

41. Uh, Senator, I really, really don't need all this.

42. When the United States government does something,

43. it does it right. You know that, Dan.

44. Who used to live here?

45. An important Nazi general and his wife, sir.

46. Well, let's see. Ls there anything else Judge Haywood ought to know?

47. Sir, are there any questions?

48. Yes. Yes.

49. You're West Point, aren't you, Captain?

50. Yes, sir.

51. What's your first name?

52. Harrison. Harry.

53. Well, Harry, look, I'm not West Point.

54. And all this formality kind of gets me down a little,

55. not to say puts me ill at ease.

56. Uh... Uh, do you think it would be too much an infraction of the rules

57. if you were to call me Judge, or Dan, or something?

58. Okay, Judge.

59. We do all our shopping at the army commissary.

60. There isn't enough food at the local markets for the Germans.

61. The driver knows where the commissary is.

62. Here's a copy of the indictment of the case.

63. - I thought you might want to look it over. - Oh, thanks.

64. I hope you'll be comfortable here, sir.

65. Captain, I think the whole state of Maine would be comfortable here.

66. My office is next to yours at the Palace of Justice if you need anything.

67. Thank you.

68. Senator?

69. Do you... Do you think I really need the three servants?

70. It kind of makes me feel like a damn fool.

71. Well, it helps them out, as well as you.

72. You see, here they eat.

73. Oh.

74. Well, I need three servants.

75. It's good to have you here, Dan.

76. Good to have a man of your stature here.

77. Sure. Sure.

78. I was the only man in America qualified for this job.

79. Senator, you know I wasn't the first choice, nor even the 10th.

80. You know it, and I know it.

81. What do you mean?

82. Well, let's face it.

83. Hitler is gone, Goebbels is gone.

84. Goering is gone. Committed suicide before they could hang him.

85. Now we're down to the business of judging the doctors,

86. businessmen and judges.

87. Some people think they shouldn't be judged at all.

88. So?

89. So it makes for a hell of a lack of candidates for the job.

90. You had to beat the backwoods of Maine

91. to come up with a hick like me.

92. I hope you're not sorry you came.

93. No. I'm not sorry I came.

94. I just wanted you to know that I know where the body is buried.

95. No, I think the trials should go on.

96. Especially the trials of the German judges.

97. I hope I'm up to it.

98. You're up to it.

99. Well, relax.

100. Thanks.

101. Enjoy this place while you can.

102. You're going to be a pretty busy fellow.

103. Well, thanks, Senator. Thanks for everything.

104. See you tomorrow, Judge.

105. Right.

106. Shall we, uh, take these upstairs?

107. Oh, yes, yes. Thank you.

108. Here, I can take that...

109. No, let me take it. Please.

110. Here they come.

111. The tribunal is now in session.

112. God bless the United States and this honorable tribunal.

113. The tribunal will now arraign the defendants.

114. The microphone will be placed in front of the defendant,

115. Emil Hahn.

116. Emil Hahn?

117. Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal?

118. Not guilty.

119. The question was, are you represented

120. by counsel before this tribunal?

121. I am represented.

122. How do you plead to the charges and specifications

123. in the indictment against you? Guilty or not guilty?

124. Not guilty on all counts.

125. Friedrich Hoffstetter?

126. Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal?

127. I am represented.

128. How do you plead? Guilty or not guilty?

129. You may be seated.

130. Werner Lammpe?

131. Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal?

132. Counsel?

133. Yes. Yes, of course. I am represented.

134. How do you plead to the charges? Guilty or not guilty?

135. You may be seated.

136. Ernst Janning?

137. Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel

138. before this tribunal?

139. Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal?

140. I represent the defendant, Your Honor.

141. How do you plead to the charges and specifications set forth

142. in the indictment against you?

143. Guilty or not guilty?

144. Your Honor, may I address the court?

145. The defendant does not recognize the authority of this tribunal

146. and wishes to lodge a formal protest in lieu of pleading.

147. A plea of "not guilty" will be entered.

148. The prosecution will begin its opening address.

149. Slow and easy, junior.

150. The case is unusual

151. in that the defendants are charged with crimes

152. committed in the name of the law.

153. These men, together with their deceased or fugitive colleagues,

154. are the embodiment of what passed for justice

155. during the Third Reich.

156. The defendants served as judges during the period of the Third Reich.

157. Therefore, you, Your Honors, as judges on the bench,

158. will be sitting in judgment

159. of judges in the dock.

160. And this is as it should be.

161. For only a judge knows how much more a court is than a courtroom.

162. It is a process and a spirit.

163. It is the house of law.

164. The defendants knew this, too.

165. They knew courtrooms well.

166. They sat in their black robes,

167. and they distorted, they perverted,

168. they destroyed justice and law in Germany.

169. Will the prosecution please watch the light?

170. The interpreter cannot follow you.

171. I'm sorry, Your Honor.

172. They distorted, they perverted,

173. they destroyed justice and law in Germany.

174. Now, this in itself is undoubtedly a great crime.

175. But the prosecution is not calling the defendants

176. to account for violating constitutional guarantees

177. or withholding due process of law.

178. The prosecution is calling them to account

179. for murder,

180. brutalities,

181. torture,

182. atrocities.

183. They share with all the leaders of the Third Reich

184. responsibility for the most malignant, the most calculated,

185. the most devastating crimes in the history of all mankind.

186. And they are perhaps more guilty

187. than some of the others.

188. For they had attained maturity

189. long before Hitler's rise to power.

190. Their minds weren't warped at an early age by Nazi teachings.

191. They embraced the ideologies of the Third Reich

192. as educated adults

193. when they, most of all,

194. should have valued justice.

195. Well, here they'll receive the justice they denied others.

196. They'll be judged according to the evidence presented in this courtroom.

197. The prosecution asks nothing more.

198. Herr Rolfe will make the opening statement for the defense.

199. May it please the tribunal...

200. It is not only a great honor

201. but also a great challenge

202. for an advocate

203. to aid this tribunal in its task.

204. The entire civilized world

205. will follow closely what we do here.

206. For this is not an ordinary trial

207. by any means of the accepted, parochial sense.

208. The avowed purpose of this tribunal...

209. ls broader than the visiting of retribution on a few men.

210. It is dedicated to the reconsecration

211. of the temple of justice.

212. It is dedicated to finding a code of justice

213. the whole world will be responsible to.

214. How will this code be established?

215. It will be established

216. in a clear,

217. honest evaluation

218. of the responsibility for the crimes

219. in the indictment stated by the prosecution.

220. In the words of the great American jurist, Oliver Wendell Holmes,

221. "This responsibility will not be found only in documents

222. "that no one contests or denies.

223. "It will be found in considerations

224. "of a political or social nature.

225. "It will be found, most of all,

226. "in the character of men."

227. What is the character of Ernst Janning?

228. Let us examine his life for a moment.

229. He was born in 1885.

230. Received the degree of Doctor of Law in 1907.

231. Became a judge in East Prussia in 1940.

232. Following World War I he became one of the leaders of the Weimar Republic

233. and was one of the framers of its democratic constitution.

234. In subsequent years he achieved international fame

235. not only for his work as a great jurist,

236. but also as the author of legal text books

237. which are still used in universities all over the world.

238. He became Minister of Justice in Germany in 1935.

239. If Ernst Janning is to be found guilty,

240. certain implications must arise.

241. A judge does not make the laws.

242. He carries out the laws of his country.

243. The statement,

244. "My country, right or wrong"

245. was expressed by a great American patriot.

246. It is no less true for a German patriot.

247. Should Ernst Janning have carried out the laws of his country?

248. Or should he have refused to carry them out and become a traitor?

249. This is the crux of the issue at the bottom of this trial.

250. The defense is as dedicated to finding responsibility

251. as is the prosecution.

252. For it is not only Ernst Janning who is on trial here,

253. it is the German people.

254. The tribunal will recess until further notification.

255. Yeah.

256. If it's all right with you,

257. Byers can file these briefs later.

258. Hmm.

259. That was quite a damning speech by Colonel Lawson, wasn't it?

260. I wonder if those men in the dock can really be responsible

261. for the things he listed in the indictment.

262. Well, I've been here for two years, and after you're here that long,

263. you find that responsibility is not a cut-and-dried thing.

264. What are you fellows up to over the weekend?

265. My wife and I are going to Liège.

266. There's nothing in Liege. I've been there.

267. My son was in the 101st.

268. He's buried in the American cemetery outside Liege.

269. Oh, I'm sorry.

270. Oh, that's all right. See you Monday, Dan.

271. Hmm.

272. Coming my Way?

273. No, I'm going to stay here for a moment.

274. I'm waiting for some records from Byers.

275. Right.

276. Here are the reports you asked for, sir.

277. Oh, thank you.

278. Captain, do you think you can get me a copy

279. of the books Ernst Janning wrote?

280. There are quite a few of them.

281. I'd like all of them.

282. And also a copy of the Weimar Constitution.

283. Do you think you can get that for me?

284. - Yes, of course. - Thank you.

285. How long have you been here, Captain?

286. Two years.

287. Two years? That's a long time.

288. Yes, sir.

289. Any friends?

290. Sure.

291. German friends?

292. Yes.

293. A girl?

294. Yes.

295. Her parents were Nazis, but she was eight years old when they came in.

296. I didn't ask you that.

297. I know. But maybe you were thinking it.

298. It's natural to think about it.

299. I thought if anybody was going to indoctrinate her,

300. - it might as well be me.

301. Will there be anything else?

302. No, no, I think I'll just take a walk around town on my own.

303. Try the old section. Everyone stops for a beer and a sausage there.

304. Thank you.

305. Do you understand English?

306. Yes, a little.

307. What did she say?

308. She said, "Goodbye, grandpa."

309. Are they treating you all right?

310. Yes. They're treating me all right.

311. We still have some friends

312. who have contact with the American authorities.

313. I can tell them if they're not treating you all right.

314. They're treating me all right.

315. Dr. Janning,

316. we are both in an embarrassing position.

317. I know you didn't want me as your counsel.

318. I know you didn't want anyone.

319. But I must tell you something.

320. Will you listen to me?

321. Yes.

322. I intend to represent your case

323. with complete dignity.

324. There will be

325. no appeal to sentiment,

326. there will be no falling at the mercy of the court.

327. The game

328. will be played according to their own rules.

329. We'll see whether they have the courage

330. to sit in judgment on a man like you.

331. The way I see it,

332. the most important elements in the case

333. are the sterilization decrees,

334. and the Feldenstein-Hoffman affair.

335. Dr. Janning, I must tell you something.

336. I admired you

337. since I was a boy in the university.

338. It was because I thought I might be able to achieve

339. some of the things you have done

340. that saw me through the war.

341. You have been somebody to look up to, for all of us.

342. Is that all, Herr Rolfe?

343. Yes.

344. Thank you.

345. Dr. Wieck, do you know the defendant, Ernst Janning?

346. Yes, I know him.

347. Will you tell us in what capacity?

348. We served in the Ministry of Justice together,

349. from 1929 till 1935.

350. Did you know him before that?

351. Yes.

352. He was a law student of mine.

353. - Did you know him well? - Yes.

354. - Was he a protégé of yours? - Yes.

355. Why?

356. He was always a man of great intelligence.

357. He was a man born with the qualities of a great legal mind.

358. Dr. Weick, would you, uh,

359. would you tell us from your own experience,

360. the position of the judge in Germany

361. prior to the advent of Adolf Hitler.

362. The position of the judge was one of complete independence.

363. Mmm-hmm.

364. Now, would you describe the contrast, if any,

365. after the coming to power of National Socialism in 1933?

366. Judges became subject to something outside of objective justice.

367. They became subject to what was necessary

368. for the protection of the country.

369. Would you explain this, please?

370. The first consideration of the judge

371. became the punishment of acts against the state,

372. rather than objective consideration of the case.

373. And what other changes were there?

374. The right to appeal was eliminated.

375. The supreme court of the Reich was replaced by

376. people's and special courts.

377. The concept of race was made a legal concept for the first time.

378. And what was the result of this?

379. The result?

380. The result was to hand over the administration of justice

381. into the hands of the dictatorship.

382. Now, Dr. Wieck...

383. Colonel Lawson, I would like to ask a few questions.

384. Did the judiciary protest these laws abridging their independence?

385. A few of them did.

386. Those who did resigned, or were forced to resign.

387. Others...

388. Adapted themselves to the new situation.

389. Do you think the judiciary was aware of the consequences to come?

390. At first, perhaps not.

391. Later it became clear to anyone who had eyes and ears.

392. Thank you.

393. Now, would you please describe for us

394. the changes in criminal law?

395. It was characterized by

396. an ever-increasing inflation of the death penalty.

397. Sentences were passed against defendants

398. just because they were Poles, or Jews,

399. or politically undesirable.

400. Novel National Socialist measures were introduced.

401. Among them,

402. sexual sterilization for those who were categorized as asocial.

403. Did it become necessary for judges

404. to wear any distinctive mark on their robes in 1935?

405. The so-called Fuehrer's decree

406. required judges to wear the insignia

407. of the swastika on their robes.

408. Did you wear such an insignia?

409. No.

410. I would have been ashamed to wear it.

411. Did you resign in 1935?

412. Yes, sir.

413. Did Ernst Janning wear a swastika on his robe?

414. Yes.

415. That's all. Thank you.

416. Herr Rolfe.

417. You used the phrase, "What was necessary

418. "for the protection of the country."

419. Will you explain for the tribunal the conditions in Germany

420. at the time National Socialism came to power?

421. What conditions?

422. Would you say there was widespread hunger?

423. Yes.

424. Would you say there was internal disunity?

425. Yes.

426. Was there a Communist Party?

427. Yes.

428. Was it the third largest party in Germany?

429. Hmm, yes.

430. Would you say

431. that National Socialism helped to cure some of these conditions?

432. Yes, but at a terrible price and I...

433. Please confine yourself to answering the questions only.

434. Therefore, was it not possible

435. that a judge might wear a swastika

436. and yet work for what he thought was best for his country?

437. No. it was not possible.

438. Dr. Wieck,

439. you were not in the administration

440. from the years 1935 to 1943

441. by your own admission.

442. Is it not possible that your view of the administration

443. might be distorted?

444. No. it is not.

445. How... How can you testify about what was going on in the administration

446. if you were not there?

447. I had many friends in the legal administration.

448. There were journals and books.

449. From journals and books?

450. I see.

451. Dr. Wieck, you referred to,

452. "Novel National Socialist measures introduced,

453. "among them sexual sterilization."

454. Are you aware that sexual sterilization

455. was not invented by National Socialism,

456. but had been advanced for years before as a weapon

457. in dealing with the mentally incompetent and the criminal?

458. Yes. I am aware of that.

459. Are you aware that it has advocates

460. among leading citizens in many other countries?

461. I am not an expert on such laws.

462. Then permit me to read one to you.

463. This is a high court opinion

464. upholding such laws in existence in another country.

465. And I quote,

466. "We have seen more than once that the public welfare

467. "may call upon the best citizens for their lives.

468. "It would be strange indeed, if it could not call upon those

469. "who already sapped the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices

470. "in order to prevent our being swamped by incompetence.

471. "It is better for all the world

472. "if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate off springs for crime

473. "or to let them starve for their imbecility,

474. "society can prevent their propagation

475. "by medical means in the first place.

476. "Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

477. Do you recognize it now, Dr. Wieck?

478. No, sir, I don't.

479. Actually, there is no particular reason you should,

480. since the opinion upholds the sterilization law

481. in the state of Virginia, of the United States,

482. and was written and delivered by that great American jurist,

483. Supreme Court Justice, Oliver Wendell Holmes.

484. Now, Dr. Wieck.

485. In view of what you have just learned,

486. can you still say that sexual sterilization

487. was a novel National Socialist measure?

488. Yes, I can say it.

489. Because it was never before used

490. as a weapon against political opponents.

491. Do you personally know of a case

492. where someone was sterilized for political reasons?

493. I know that such things were done.

494. That's not the question.

495. Please answer the question.

496. Do you know of a case?

497. I don't know of any specific case, or specific date...

498. I am asking you if you have any firsthand,

499. personal knowledge of such a case!

500. No, I have no such personal knowledge.

501. Thank you.

502. Dr. Wieck,

503. you are aware

504. of the charges in the indictment against Ernst Janning?

505. Yes, I am.

506. Can you honestly say he is responsible for them?

507. Yes, I can.

508. Do you consider yourself free of responsibility?

509. Yes, I do.

510. Dr. Wieck,

511. did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934?

512. Your Honor, I object.

513. The witness doesn't have to answer that question.

514. He's not on trial.

515. All Germany is on trial, Your Honor.

516. This tribunal placed it on trial when it placed Ernst Janning on trial.

517. If responsibility is to be found,

518. the widest latitude is to be permitted.

519. Objection overruled.

520. Did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934?

521. Everyone did.

522. We are not interested in what everyone did.

523. We are interested in what you did.

524. Would you read the oath from the Reich Law Gazette, March, 1933?

525. "I swear that I shall be obedient

526. "to the leader of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler.

527. "That I shall be loyal to him, that I will observe the laws,

528. "and that I will conscientiously fulfill my duties,

529. "so help me God."

530. Everyone swore to it.

531. It was mandatory.

532. Yes.

533. But you're such a perceptive man, Dr. Wieck.

534. You could see what was coming.

535. You could see that National Socialism

536. was leading Germany to disaster.

537. "It was clear to anyone who had eyes and ears."

538. Didn't you realize

539. what it would have meant if you, and men like you,

540. would have refused to swear to the oath?

541. It would have meant

542. that Hitler could never have come to absolute power.

543. Why didn't you?

544. Dr. Wieck, why didn't you?

545. Can you give us an explanation?

546. Has it something to do with your pension?

547. Did your pension mean more to you than your country?

548. Your Honor, Your Honor!

549. I object to the entire line of questioning,

550. and ask that it be stricken from the record.

551. I thought prosecuting counsel

552. was dedicated to finding responsibility.

553. Your Honor, I made an objection.

554. Prosecution is not interested in finding responsibility?

555. There is responsibility for more here

556. than swearing to a loyalty oath and you know it.

557. - There is indeed. - Order.

558. One thing that even the German machine,

559. with its monumental efficiency

560. has been unable to destroy...

561. Order. Order!

562. All the victims.

563. More victims than the world has ever known.

564. They will walk into this courtroom...

565. Order! Order!

566. This tribunal will admonish both counsel.

567. It will tolerate nothing of this kind again.

568. We're not here to listen to outbursts of this kind, but to serve justice.

569. Your Honor, I made an objection.

570. The objection is overruled.

571. The witness is excused.

572. Did you ever read any books by Janning?

573. No, I don't think so.

574. The Meaning of the Law.

575. How is it? Interesting?

576. All the books by Janning are interesting. They're more than that.

577. They're a picture of an era, its hopes, its aspirations.

578. They weren't very different from ours, really.

579. Listen to this, on the signing of the Weimar Constitution,

580. "Now we can look forward to a Germany without guns and bloodshed,

581. "a Germany of justice, where men can live instead of die,

582. "a Germany of purpose, of freedom, of humanity,

583. "a Germany that calls for the best in man."

584. Now, how could a man who wrote words like these

585. be part of sterilizations and murders?

586. How could he be?

587. Dan, there are a lot of things that happened here

588. that nobody understands.

589. I know.

590. But the prosecution is going to have to prove every inch of its allegation

591. against a man like Janning if I'm to pronounce sentence on him.

592. Well, gentlemen, I'm on my way. Coming, Ken?

593. Right.

594. Well, there's just this business

595. on the curtailment of rights.

596. Tomorrow.

597. Dan, my wife is planning a little get-together

598. tomorrow night at the grand hotel. She wants you to come.

599. I thank you.

600. And she'd like to provide you

601. with some kind of female companionship.

602. She has a feeling that you might be lonely here.

603. Oh, no. No, thanks, Curtiss. Thanks very much.

604. You know how these wives are. They love to play cupid.

605. Yeah, well, I think I'll keep it stag.

606. All right. How about you, Ken?

607. Thanks. My wife and I have an engagement. Good night.

608. Good night. Good night.

609. - Good night, Dan. - Good night.

610. Mrs. Halbestadt, could I...

611. Hello.

612. Hello.

613. Your Honor, this is Madame Bertholt.

614. This is his Honor, Judge Haywood.

615. Madame Bertholt, this is her house.

616. Uh, she came to get some of her belongings from the basement.

617. I didn't know she was coming here tonight.

618. This is my responsibility, Mrs. Halbestadt.

619. I've been storing some of my things here

620. until I could get a room large enough to keep them in.

621. I hope you don't mind.

622. No. No. Not at all.

623. You can examine what I have here, if you like.

624. Of course not.

625. Then I'll just take these out.

626. - Thanks, Mrs. Halbestadt. - Here. Let me help you.

627. No, no, no. I can manage all right.

628. I'll take these outside. Please.

629. Good night.

630. It's heavy. It's full of books and pictures

631. things that mean nothing to anyone but me.

632. Mr. Schmidt?

633. Your Honor.

634. Would you drive Mrs. Bertholt home, please?

635. Yes, Your Honor.

636. I hope you're comfortable here.

637. Yes, I am. Very.

638. My favorite spot was always the garden.

639. Remind Mr. Halbestadt to take good care of the rock garden.

640. You'll get a great deal of pleasure out of it in summer.

641. I'll sit in front, thank you.

642. Good night.

643. Good night.

644. Karolinenstrasse 115, please.

645. Yes, madam.

646. Sit down. Sit down.

647. Uh, Mrs. Halbestadt,

648. you worked for Mrs. Bertholt, didn't you?

649. Yes, Your Honor.

650. How long did she live here?

651. Madame Bertholt?

652. Oh, Madame Bertholt and her family have lived here

653. for many generations, Your Honor.

654. Thank you.

655. Your Honor, you came in here for something?

656. Oh, oh, yeah.

657. Well, I was just going to make myself a sandwich.

658. Oh, we will make it for you.

659. We will make you anything you want.

660. No. No, it's nothing.

661. I always used to do it for myself back home.

662. What would you like?

663. I have some ham and cheese and liverwurst.

664. Cheese will be fine.

665. That's very kind of you.

666. Mr. Halbestadt,

667. what was it like, uh, living under National Socialism?

668. What was it like?

669. Yes. I mean, uh... Uh, day to day?

670. You know, I know many people at home like you.

671. You're good people. I believe that.

672. Uh,

673. what was it like for you, living under Hitler?

674. Uh, we were not political.

675. Mr. Halbestadt and I are not political.

676. No, but, uh,

677. you must have been aware of some of the events that were going on.

678. Many things were going on, Mr. Halbestadt.

679. There were parades.

680. Hitler and Goebbels came here every year.

681. What was it like?

682. We... We never attended meetings. Never.

683. I'm not trying to put you on trial.

684. I'm just, uh... I'm just curious. I'd like to know.

685. Here's your sandwich, Your Honor.

686. Thank you.

687. You're welcome.

688. Thank you.

689. For instance, there was a place called Dachau

690. which was not too many miles from here.

691. Did you ever know what was going on there?

692. We knew nothing about it. Nothing about it.

693. How... How can you ask if... If we knew anything about that?

694. I'm sorry.

695. Your Honor, we are only little people.

696. We lost a son in the army

697. and our daughter in the bombing.

698. During the war we almost starved.

699. It was terrible for us.

700. I'm sure it was.

701. Hitler... Hitler did some good things.

702. I won't say he didn't do some good things.

703. He built the Autobahn.

704. He gave more people work.

705. We won't say he didn't do some good things.

706. But the... The other things,

707. the things they say he did to the Jews and the rest,

708. we knew nothing about that.

709. Very few Germans did.

710. And if we did know,

711. what could we do?

712. But Mrs. Halbestadt said you didn't know.

713. Mrs. Bertholt. How did... How did, uh, she react to all this?

714. Oh, Madame Bertholt is a very fine woman, Your Honor.

715. I'm sure she is. What about her husband?

716. He was in the army.

717. What happened to him?

718. He was one of the defendants in the Malmedy case.

719. General Bertholt. Karl Bertholt.

720. He was executed, Your Honor.

721. Yes, I know that.

722. The document then states that

723. the photographer, Rudolf Lenz,

724. is requested to present himself within two weeks

725. at one the hospitals mentioned below

726. for medical treatment.

727. Next, prosecution presents affidavit document No. 488

728. which concerns the seamstress, Anni Meunch.

729. Document reads as follows,

730. "District Court, Frankfurt am Main, has decided the following,

731. "the seamstress, Anni Meunch, daughter of Wilhelm Meunch is to be sterilized.

732. "She is therefore requested to present herself within two weeks

733. "at one of the hospitals mentioned below.

734. "If she does not take herself voluntarily,

735. "she will be taken by force."

736. Next, document no. 449,

737. interrogatories in the German and English text

738. concerning the farmer's helper, Meyer Eichinger.

739. Your Honor,

740. defense objects

741. to introduction of these repetitive documents.

742. According to the ruling of the first tribunal,

743. such documents are not even admissible

744. unless supported by independent evidence of their authenticity.

745. Objection sustained.

746. Your Honor, uh, may I ask the defense a question?

747. Yes.

748. Would evidence on sterilization

749. be admissible if there were a witness?

750. Yes.

751. Thank you.

752. Prosecution calls the witness, Rudolph Petersen.

753. Will you raise your right hand?

754. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient,

755. that I will speak the pure truth

756. and withhold and add nothing.

757. Yes, I do.

758. Will you please tell the court your full name and place of residence?

759. Rudolph Petersen.

760. Frankfurt am Main, Gratweg Nummer 7.

761. When were you born, Mr. Petersen?

762. May 20, 1914.

763. And, uh, what is your occupation?

764. Baker's helper. I'm a baker's helper.

765. Are your parents living?

766. No.

767. Oh, what were the causes of their deaths?

768. Mr. Petersen, did they... Did they die of natural causes?

769. Yeah, yeah, yeah, natural.

770. Mr. Petersen,

771. what political party did your father belong to?

772. Communist. The Communist Party.

773. Uh-huh.

774. Now...

775. Now think back.

776. Do you remember anything unusual

777. that happened to you and your family in 1933,

778. before the Nazis came to power?

779. I mean, uh, anything of a violent nature.

780. Yeah. Yeah.

781. How old were you at the time?

782. 19.

783. Would you please tell the court what happened?

784. Uh, some...

785. Some S.A. men broke into the house, our house,

786. and they broke the windows and the door,

787. and they called us traitors,

788. and they tried to... To beat up my father.

789. And what happened then?

790. Well, my brothers and I, we went to help him.

791. And there was a fight,

792. and finally we got them outside in the street

793. and we beat them up,

794. and turned them over to the police.

795. Did the police do anything about it?

796. - No. - Why not?

797. It was then,

798. at the time of the... Of the national elections.

799. Oh, you mean the time the National Socialists

800. came to power?

801. Yeah.

802. Now, Mr. Petersen,

803. what happened after 1933,

804. after the Nazis came to power?

805. I got a job on a farm,

806. but for the work, to drive a truck, it was necessary.

807. I went to the city building to apply for a license.

808. And what happened there?

809. They took me to an official.

810. Did you ever have any dealings with this, uh, official before?

811. He was one of the men

812. who broke into our house that night.

813. What did he say to your application?

814. He said an examination there would have to be.

815. Where was the examination to take place?

816. In the District Court of Stuttgart.

817. Who was the presiding justice in the court?

818. Justice Hoffstetter.

819. Now, what happened in the courtroom?

820. Uh, they asked me my... My full name and...

821. And so forth.

822. What else did they ask you?

823. They asked me when Adolf Hitler and Dr. Goebbels were born.

824. What did you reply?

825. I told them I didn't know, and also that I didn't care.

826. Did they, uh, did they ask you any more questions?

827. No. They told me that I would be hearing from them in 10 days.

828. I see. Now, Mr. Petersen,

829. I'd like you to look at something.

830. Do you recognize it?

831. Yeah.

832. Would you please read it for the tribunal?

833. "District Court of Stuttgart.

834. "The baker, Rudolph Petersen, born May 20, 1914,

835. "son of railway employee, Hans Petersen,

836. "is to be sterilized."

837. Now would you read the last paragraph?

838. "It is therefore requested

839. "he present himself within two weeks

840. "to one of the hospitals mentioned below.

841. "If he does not

842. "betake himself voluntarily,

843. "he will be taken by force."

844. Now, please read the signature at the bottom.

845. "Presiding Justice Hoffstetter."

846. Would you read what is written below the signature?

847. Below?

848. Below.

849. "By authority of

850. "Ernst Janning,

851. "Minister of Justice."

852. Your Honor,

853. may the defense see the file of Mr. Petersen?

854. What did you do after you received the letter, Mr. Petersen?

855. I ran away. I stayed at the farm of a friend I have.

856. And, uh, did you return?

857. Did I what?

858. Did you return?

859. Yes.

860. And what happened then?

861. The police came.

862. The police came.

863. Where did they take you?

864. To the hospital.

865. Uh, Mr. Petersen, excuse me.

866. I wonder if you could speak a little louder, please.

867. To the hospital.

868. And what happened at the hospital?

869. They kept me there.

870. The, uh, the nurse who was...

871. Well, she came in, anyway.

872. She was to prepare me for the operation.

873. And she said she thought the whole thing was terrible.

874. And then the doctor came in who was supposed to do the...

875. And he said he thought it was awful.

876. Were you, in fact, sterilized?

877. Thank you very much, Mr. Petersen.

878. That's all.

879. Herr Rolfe?

880. Mr. Petersen,

881. You may take your earphones off now, if you want to.

882. Mr. Petersen,

883. you say you work as a baker's helper? Is that correct?

884. Yes, that is right.

885. What other occupations have you held?

886. I have worked for my father.

887. What did your father do?

888. He was a rail road worker.

889. Yes, but, uh, what did he do?

890. Oh, he would raise and lower the barrier

891. at the crossing, for traffic.

892. And you spoke about your brothers.

893. How many brothers do you have?

894. Five.

895. And sisters?

896. Four.

897. Then you are a family of 10?

898. Yes.

899. What occupations do your brothers have?

900. Laborers.

901. All laborers?

902. I see.

903. Mr. Petersen,

904. you said the court at Stuttgart asked you two questions,

905. the birth dates of Hitler and Dr. Goebbels.

906. Is that correct?

907. Yes, correct.

908. What else did they ask you?

909. Uh,

910. nothing else.

911. Are you sure?

912. Are you sure there were no questions about your schooling?

913. Objection!

914. The witness has already answered that question.

915. Objection sustained.

916. May I ask you,

917. Mr. Petersen,

918. may I ask you

919. how long did you attend school?

920. Six years.

921. Six years? Why not longer?

922. I had to go to work.

923. Would you consider yourself a very bright fellow at school?

924. School? It was a...

925. It was a long while ago. I don't...

926. Perhaps you were not able to keep up with the others

927. and that's why you did not continue?

928. Objection, Your Honor.

929. The witness' school record has nothing to do with what happened to him.

930. It was the task of the health court

931. to sterilize the mentally incompetent.

932. Objection overruled.

933. Were you able, or were you not able

934. to keep up with the others?

935. I would like to refer to the efficiency report

936. made at the school about Mr. Petersen.

937. He failed to be promoted, and was placed in a class of backward children.

938. You say your parents died of natural causes.

939. Yes.

940. Would you describe in detail the illness your mother died of?

941. She died of her heart.

942. In the last stages of her illness,

943. did your mother show any mental peculiarities?

944. Uh, me...

945. No. No.

946. In the decision that came down from Stuttgart,

947. it is stated that your mother suffered

948. from hereditary feeble-mindedness.

949. That is not...

950. That is not true! Not true! Not true!

951. Can you give us some clarification as to how

952. the hereditary health court in Stuttgart

953. arrived at that decision?

954. It was just something they said

955. to put me on the operating table.

956. It was just something they said?

957. Yes!

958. Mr. Petersen, there was a simple test

959. that the health court used to ask in all cases of mental incompetence.

960. Since you say they did not ask you then,

961. perhaps you can answer it for us now.

962. Form a sentence out of the words

963. "hare,"hunter,"field."

964. Your Honor, objection.

965. Mr. Petersen,

966. was the court in Stuttgart constituted like this one?

967. I don't understand what...

968. Was there an audience?

969. An audience? Yes, yes.

970. Thank you.

971. Objection overruled.

972. "Hare,"hunter,"field."

973. Mr. Petersen,

974. take your time.

975. "Hare,"hunter,"field."

976. "Hare,"hunter."

977. They had already made up...

978. When I walked into the court, they had made up their minds.

979. They had made up their minds!

980. They put me in the hospital, like a criminal.

981. I could not say anything. I could not do anything. I...

982. I had to lay there.

983. My... My mother,

984. what you say about her...

985. She was a woman, a servant woman who worked hard.

986. She was a hardworking woman,

987. and it is not fair, not fair what you say.

988. Ah, here.

989. I want to show you. I have here her... Her picture.

990. I would like you to look at it.

991. I would like you to judge.

992. I want that you tell me

993. was she feeble-minded?

994. My mother!

995. Was she feeble-minded?

996. Was she?

997. I feel it is my duty to point out to the tribunal

998. that the witness is not in control of his mental processes.

999. I know I am not. Since that day.

1000. I've been half I've ever been.

1001. The tribunal does not know how you were before.

1002. It can never know.

1003. It has only your word.

1004. Court is adjourned.

1005. That's one problem we have with the prosecution.

1006. It's filled with young radicals like Lawson.

1007. Is that what Lawson is? A young radical?

1008. Well, he was a personal protégé of F.D.R.

1009. Well, F.D.R. had a few friends

1010. who weren't radicals, didn't he?

1011. Name one.

1012. Well, Wendell Wilkie.

1013. Wilkie.

1014. Is he your idea of a conservative?

1015. As a matter of fact, Dan,

1016. I've been wondering how you stand.

1017. Well, I'll clarify that for you, Curtiss.

1018. I'm a rock-ribbed Republican

1019. who thought that Franklin Roosevelt was a great man.

1020. Oh, one of those?

1021. Max!

1022. Max Perkins. You know him?

1023. No, I don't think so.

1024. He's with the United Press.

1025. Max, what are you doing here?

1026. I thought you might kick up a row or something.

1027. I haven't had that much to drink.

1028. Oh, I'm sorry, this is Judge Ives.

1029. - Hello. - Mrs. Ives.

1030. - How do you do? - How do you do?

1031. Judge Haywood, Mrs. Bertholt.

1032. We have met.

1033. Yes, we have.

1034. Won't you join us for a drink?

1035. We would like to very much.

1036. - Max, will you sit here? - Thank you.

1037. Incidentally, Max, I admired your article on Mrs. Bertholt very much.

1038. It was straight reporting. Her defense of her husband was quite eloquent.

1039. Are you going to do a story on these trials?

1040. I'll tell you something frankly, Judge.

1041. At the moment, I couldn't give a story away on the Nuremberg trials.

1042. What do you mean, Mr. Perkins?

1043. The American public just isn't interested anymore.

1044. But the war's only been over two years, Mr. Perkins.

1045. That's right.

1046. May I take your order, please?

1047. Yes. See what the ladies will have.

1048. How about some more beer, Dan?

1049. No,no, no. I think I've had my fill of beer.

1050. I'd like to try something else, if I may.

1051. Why don't you try some Sonnenberg,

1052. or Schwalbenwinkel? It's the local wine.

1053. Sonnenberg or...

1054. Schwalbenwinkel.

1055. Yes, I think I'd like that.

1056. Some Schweissenwinkel.

1057. Will you have some?

1058. Yes, thank you. I'll have the same.

1059. Should we stay with the beer, Max?

1060. Fine.

1061. Thank you, thank you.

1062. You got home all right the other night?

1063. Oh, yes, thank you.

1064. I don't know what I would have done without the car.

1065. You speak, uh, English very well, Mrs. Bertholt.

1066. Thank you.

1067. My husband and I spent three years in America.

1068. I hope you had a chance to see something of Nuremberg.

1069. Well.

1070. Well, I'm afraid mainly the...

1071. The road between my house and the Palace of Justice.

1072. Uh, and then some places that have to do with the case,

1073. the historical aspects.

1074. The Nazi aspects.

1075. You should see some of the other parts of Nuremberg.

1076. There are many beautiful things to see in the old part of town.

1077. Museums we're trying to rebuild.

1078. And there's a concert, a piano concert,

1079. next week at the old opera house.

1080. Arthur Reiss.

1081. He was a refugee from Hitler in the early days.

1082. We've persuaded him to come back.

1083. It ought to be quite an evening.

1084. Would you like to come?

1085. Yes, I would.

1086. I'll tell them to leave a ticket for you at the box office.

1087. I'm on the committee.

1088. Thank you very much, Mrs. Bertholt.

1089. Oh, it's nothing.

1090. You see, I have a mission with the Americans,

1091. as Mr. Perkins can tell you.

1092. Oh, what is that?

1093. To convince you that we're not all monsters.

1094. - Good evening, Colonel. - Good evening.

1095. Colonel. Major Radnitz.

1096. Good evening, Mrs. Bertholt.

1097. I hope you'll excuse me.

1098. But you've just come, Mrs...

1099. No, I must go. Please excuse me.

1100. It was awfully nice meeting you.

1101. If you really want to hear the concert,

1102. there'll be a ticket for you at the box office.

1103. - Thank you. - Good night.

1104. Good night.

1105. Good night.

1106. Good night, Mrs. Bertholt. Max.

1107. Mrs. Bertholt doesn't hold a burning passion for me.

1108. I prosecuted her husband.

1109. There are many people who think a death sentence

1110. would not have been passed against General Bertholt today.

1111. Oh, I'm sure there are.

1112. I'm... I'm sure there are people who think

1113. all the prisoners in Nuremberg should be free today.

1114. All of them. Let... Let...

1115. Excuse me.

1116. I've had, uh...

1117. I've had one or two too many

1118. as might be painfully obvious to you gentlemen.

1119. The spectacle this afternoon

1120. with Mr. Petersen put me off my feed. I'm sorry.

1121. Three beers and Schwalbenwinkel, please.

1122. Schwalbenwinkel.

1123. Schwalbenwinkel.

1124. Yeah, it's good beer.

1125. They make it good in this country.

1126. Mmm.

1127. You know...

1128. You know, there's, uh, there's one thing about Americans.

1129. We're not cut out to be occupiers.

1130. We're new at it. We're not very good at it.

1131. We... We... We come over here, and what do we see?

1132. We see this beautiful country.

1133. It is beautiful. It's very beautiful.

1134. We see the culture that goes back for hundreds of years.

1135. We see its gemutlich charm,

1136. and the charm of people like, uh, Mrs. Bertholt.

1137. We... We've got a built-in inferiority complex.

1138. We forgive and forget easy.

1139. We give the other guy the benefit of the doubt.

1140. That's the American way.

1141. We beat the greatest war machine

1142. since Alexander the Great.

1143. And now the boy scouts take over.

1144. The trouble with you, Colonel,

1145. is you'd like to indict the whole country.

1146. Now that might be emotionally satisfying to you,

1147. but it wouldn't be exactly practical, and hardly fair.

1148. Hardly fair?

1149. "Hare."

1150. "Hunter."

1151. "Field."

1152. That's right, let's be fair.

1153. "The hare was shot by the hunter in the field."

1154. It's really quite simple.

1155. Uh,

1156. Colonel, I think we ought to be going.

1157. Yes, we really shouldn't be discussing this.

1158. Oh, no, no, Judge.

1159. We're fair Americans, and true-blue.

1160. We mustn't do anything that's out of order.

1161. No, sir. We can't do anything that's out of order.

1162. There are no Nazis in Germany.

1163. Didn't you know that, Judge?

1164. The Eskimos invaded Germany and took over.

1165. That's how all those terrible things happened.

1166. It wasn't the fault of the Germans.

1167. It was the fault of those damn Eskimos.

1168. Excuse me. Excuse me.

1169. Good night, Colonel.

1170. Good night.

1171. Can I have your attention, please?

1172. I'm sorry to interrupt your dancing.

1173. The following officers are requested to report to their units.

1174. Major McCarthy, Major Citron, Major Cantor, Captain Byers,

1175. Captain Connell, Captain Douglas, Captain Wolfe,

1176. Major Booth, and Major Rice.

1177. Thank you. You can continue dancing.

1178. Harry, what is it?

1179. The Russians have made their move in Czechoslovakia.

1180. It's rumored Masaryk committed suicide.

1181. We're sending some units up there.

1182. What do you think's gonna happen?

1183. I don't know.

1184. Uh, Judge Haywood,

1185. Elsa Scheffler.

1186. "President Truman responded to the crisis

1187. "by calling for an extension of military training.

1188. "He stated that he is deeply concerned

1189. "with the survival of the Western nations

1190. "in face of the threat from the east."

1191. "Threat from the east."

1192. Herr Janning, did you hear this?

1193. Herr Janning, did you hear what's in the paper?

1194. Exactly what Hitler said.

1195. "The clash for survival between east and west."

1196. He knew, he knew!

1197. They'll see that we knew exactly what we were doing all the time.

1198. They cannot call us criminals,

1199. and at the same time ask us to help them.

1200. We must stand together now.

1201. The most crucial part of this case is coming up.

1202. We have fallen on happy times, Herr Hahn.

1203. In the old times it would have made your day

1204. if I'd deigned to say good morning to you.

1205. Now that we are here in this place together,

1206. you feel obliged to tell me what to do with my life.

1207. Herr Janning, you must stand with us.

1208. It is not good for Germans to turn on one another.

1209. We have a common ground now.

1210. Listen to me, Herr Hahn.

1211. There have been terrible things

1212. that have happened to me in my life.

1213. But the worst thing that has ever happened

1214. is to find myself in the company of men like you.

1215. I have nothing in common with you and party hacks like you.

1216. You have something in common.

1217. You were part of that same regime.

1218. You stood by that regime, the same as the rest of us.

1219. And there's something else you have in common.

1220. You are a German.

1221. Good evening. Did you like it?

1222. Oh, yes, I did, I did. Very much indeed.

1223. Can I drop you?

1224. I only live a few blocks from here.

1225. I was going to walk.

1226. Would you like to go for a walk?

1227. Yes, yes, I would.

1228. I won't need the car now. I'll walk with Mrs. Bertholt.

1229. You want me to wait for you, Your Honor?

1230. No, no, that won't be necessary.

1231. I'll wait for you, Your Honor.

1232. The German people love to sing, no matter what the situation.

1233. I've noticed that.

1234. Do American people sing in bars, too?

1235. I have forgotten.

1236. No. We're apt to be pretty sullen in bars.

1237. I wish you understood German.

1238. The words are very beautiful.

1239. Very sad.

1240. Much sadder than the... The English words.

1241. The German soldier knows he's going to lose his girl

1242. and his life.

1243. The lantern burns every night.

1244. It knows the steps

1245. and the way you walk.

1246. It burns every night, but I've been long forgotten.

1247. Should harm come to me...

1248. Who will stand with you

1249. under the lantern?

1250. With you, Lili Marleen.

1251. What is your life like in America?

1252. Do you have a family?

1253. Yes, I have a daughter, and she has four children.

1254. Four? You must be very proud of them.

1255. Yes, lam. I admit it.

1256. And where's your wife?

1257. She died a few years ago.

1258. Cigarettes?

1259. How about you? Do you have children?

1260. No, I don't.

1261. What is your position in America?

1262. It must be important.

1263. No, it isn't, really. I'm a District Court judge.

1264. I haven't even been that for the last year.

1265. Are you retired?

1266. Forcibly, by the electorate.

1267. You elect judges in the United States?

1268. Yes, in some states.

1269. I didn't know that.

1270. Well, it's either one of the virtues

1271. or one of the defects of our judiciary system.

1272. I thought it was one of the virtues until last year,

1273. when I was defeated.

1274. I'm sure it was the fault of the electorate, not yours.

1275. Seems to be some difference of opinion about that.

1276. This is where I live.

1277. Here?

1278. Yes. It's not so bad inside.

1279. Would you like to come up?

1280. I could make some coffee.

1281. Yes, thank you.

1282. Things haven't been very easy for you, have they?

1283. I'm not used to them being easy.

1284. I'm not fragile, Judge Haywood.

1285. I'm a daughter of the military.

1286. You know what that means, don't you?

1287. No, I'm afraid I don't.

1288. It means I was taught discipline.

1289. A very special kind of discipline.

1290. For instance, when I was a child,

1291. we used to go for long rides into the country in summertime.

1292. But I was never allowed to run

1293. to the lemonade stand with the others.

1294. I was told, "Control your thirst.

1295. "Control hunger.

1296. "Control emotion."

1297. it has served me well.

1298. And your husband?

1299. Was he of that heritage, too?

1300. My husband was a soldier.

1301. He was brought up to do one thing,

1302. to fight in the battle, and fight well.

1303. Is the coffee all right?

1304. Fine, thank you.

1305. It's ersatz, but I always try to make it strong.

1306. It's fine.

1307. I'm curious.

1308. What do you think of Ernst Janning?

1309. Mrs. Bertholt, I...

1310. I really am not at liberty to discuss the case outside of the courtroom.

1311. Oh, yes, of course.

1312. I knew Ernst Janning a little.

1313. We used to attend the same concerts.

1314. I remember there was a reception given

1315. for Wagner's daughter-in-law.

1316. Hitler was there.

1317. Ernst Janning was there with his wife.

1318. She was very beautiful,

1319. very small, very delicate.

1320. She's dead now.

1321. Hitler was quite taken with her.

1322. He made advances towards her during the reception.

1323. He used to do things like that in a burst of emotion.

1324. I will never forget the way Ernst Janning cut him down.

1325. I don't think anybody ever did it to him quite that way.

1326. He said, "Chancellor,

1327. "I do not object so much that you are so ill-mannered.

1328. "I do not object to that so much.

1329. "I object that you are such a bourgeois."

1330. Hitler whitened, stared at Janning, and walked out.

1331. Is the coffee really all right?

1332. Fine, thank you.

1333. Men, like Janning,

1334. my husband and I,

1335. we hated Hitler. I want you to know that.

1336. And he hated us.

1337. He hated my husband because he was a real war hero,

1338. and the little corporal couldn't tolerate that.

1339. And he hated him because he married into nobility

1340. which was my family.

1341. Hitler was in awe of the nobility,

1342. but he hated it.

1343. That's why it's so ironic, what happened.

1344. You know what happened to my husband, don't you?

1345. Yes.

1346. What did he know of the crimes they cited him for?

1347. He was placed on trial with the other military leaders.

1348. It was part of their revenge.

1349. The victors always take on the vanquished.

1350. It was political murder.

1351. You can see that, can't you?

1352. Mrs. Bertholt, I don't know what I see.

1353. I probably shouldn't be here

1354. talking with you about this at all.

1355. But I want to understand.

1356. I do want to understand.

1357. I have to.

1358. Would you like some more coffee?

1359. Yes, thank you.

1360. Hi.

1361. Hi.

1362. We found Irene Hoffman.

1363. Where?

1364. Berlin.

1365. Berlin, huh?

1366. She got married. Her name is Wallner now.

1367. That's why we had difficulty locating her.

1368. When is she coming?

1369. She's not coming.

1370. What do you mean, she's not coming?

1371. She doesn't want to come.

1372. You know what it's like.

1373. None of them want to testify anymore.

1374. If I catch the midnight,

1375. I could make it to Berlin,

1376. and be back by tomorrow afternoon.

1377. Tad, you haven't had any sleep...

1378. It'll be worth it if I can get Hoffman.

1379. Take over for me in court in the morning, will you?

1380. Colonel, please!

1381. I have told you this before, when you first came in.

1382. I say it again now.

1383. We are through with all this.

1384. She does not have to go, you have no right to order her to go.

1385. Mr. Wallner, I'm not ordering her to go.

1386. I have no authority to order her to go.

1387. Do you think we get a medal

1388. for appearing at these trials?

1389. The people do not like them.

1390. They do not believe that Germans

1391. should testify against other Germans.

1392. Now, look, look, I... I haven't been prosecuting these cases

1393. for the past two years without knowing that.

1394. It is easy for you to say go.

1395. After the trial you will go back to America,

1396. but we must stay here and live with these people.

1397. Mr. Wallner, don't you think I realize what I'm asking?

1398. Then how can you come in like the gestapo, in the middle of the night...

1399. Because they must not be allowed to get away with what they did.

1400. You really think they won't get away with it in the end?

1401. I say the hell with them, and the hell with you.

1402. Hugo.

1403. Emil Hahn will be there?

1404. Yes. In the dock.

1405. Ernst Janning?

1406. Yes.

1407. You saw the store downstairs.

1408. It's not much, but it's a new start for us.

1409. They will come if I go to Nuremberg.

1410. They will come and break the windows of the store.

1411. I'll place a guard in front of the store, 24 hours a clay.

1412. You do not have to go, Irene.

1413. - He has no right to ask you to go. - You do have to go.

1414. You have to go, for all those people

1415. who can't get up there on the stand themselves.

1416. You do not owe it to anybody, Irene!

1417. - Yes, you do! - You do not owe it to anybody.

1418. You owe it...

1419. You owe it to one person, at least.

1420. In the night,

1421. every night,

1422. we've known somehow it would come to this.

1423. Dr. Geuter, do you recognize that headline?

1424. Yes, sir.

1425. Would you read it to the tribunal?

1426. "Death to the race defiler."

1427. In what newspaper did it appear?

1428. In Julius Streicher's Der Stürmer.

1429. What was it in connection with?

1430. The Feldenstein case.

1431. What was the Feldenstein case?

1432. Your Honor, defense objects to the introduction of the Feldenstein case.

1433. It is a notorious case, perhaps the most notorious of the period.

1434. It has overtones,

1435. and appeals to emotion that would perhaps be best not raised.

1436. There are no issues or overtones that may not be raised in this courtroom.

1437. The tribunal is interested in everything that is relevant.

1438. Objection is overruled.

1439. It's all right. I'll take it.

1440. May it please the tribunal?

1441. - You may continue. - Thank you.

1442. Now.

1443. What was the Feldenstein case?

1444. The case of a man accused of racial pollution.

1445. Will you explain what is meant by "racial pollution"?

1446. This is the, uh, charge that is referred to in the, uh, Nuremberg laws.

1447. It says that any non-Aryan

1448. having sexual relations with an Aryan may be punished by death.

1449. When did you first become acquainted with the Feldenstein case?

1450. In, uh, September 1935, I was contacted by the police.

1451. They said that Mr. Feldenstein was being held

1452. and, uh, that he requested that I serve as his counselor.

1453. What position did he hold in the community?

1454. He was a very well-known merchant.

1455. He was one of the heads of the Jewish congregation in Nuremberg.

1456. What was the nature of the charge against him?

1457. He was accused of having intimate relations

1458. with a 16-year-old girl, Irene Hoffman.

1459. I see.

1460. And, uh, what did he say to you about the case?

1461. He said it was false.

1462. He said he knew the girl and her family a long time.

1463. He'd gone to visit her since they died.

1464. But there had never been anything of the kind charged between them.

1465. Now, Doctor, would you please tell the tribunal what happened then?

1466. He was indicted before the special court at Nuremberg.

1467. And where was this special court?

1468. It was right here, this building.

1469. This very courtroom.

1470. Dr. Geuter,

1471. what were the circumstances surrounding the trial?

1472. It was used as a show place for national socialism.

1473. It was the time of the September celebrations,

1474. the Nuremberg rallies.

1475. The courtroom was crowded.

1476. Back there, people were standing up.

1477. Julius Stretcher was sitting in one of the front seats.

1478. And high officials of the Nazi Party were all over.

1479. Doctor, would you please tell us

1480. what were your expectations for the trial in this climate?

1481. I expected the worst

1482. when I saw that Emil Hahn was the public prosecutor.

1483. He was a fanatic.

1484. His trials were always marked by extreme brutality.

1485. But I had one hope for the outcome,

1486. because sitting on the judge's bench was Ernst Janning.

1487. His reputation was known throughout Germany.

1488. He was known to have dedicated his life to justice.

1489. To the concept of justice.

1490. Thank you. That's all.

1491. Any questions?

1492. Thank you. No questions.

1493. The witness is excused.

1494. The prosecution calls to the stand Irene Hoffman Wallner.

1495. Will you raise your right hand?

1496. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient,

1497. that I will speak the pure truth, and will withhold and add nothing.

1498. I do.

1499. Will you please, uh, state your name to the tribunal?

1500. Irene Hoffman Wallner.

1501. Mrs. Wallner,

1502. did you know Lehman Feldenstein?

1503. Yes.

1504. When did you first meet him?

1505. It was 1925 or 1926.

1506. I am not sure exactly.

1507. How old was he at this time?

1508. He was in his 50s.

1509. And how old was he at the time of his arrest?

1510. - He was 65. - I see.

1511. What was the nature of your relationship?

1512. We were friends.

1513. Did you continue to see him after your parents died?

1514. - Yes. - Why?

1515. We were friends. He...

1516. He owned the building that I lived in.

1517. His business took him there quite often.

1518. Now what did you say to the police

1519. when they, uh, questioned you about having intimate relations with him?

1520. I told them it was a lie.

1521. Could you tell me who the public prosecutor was?

1522. Emil Hahn.

1523. Did Emil Hahn question you?

1524. Yes.

1525. What did he say to you?

1526. He took me into a separate room,

1527. where we were alone.

1528. He told me that it was no use to repeat my story

1529. because no one would believe me.

1530. There had been a race defilement

1531. and the only pardon for this was to kill the violator.

1532. He... He told me that if I protected

1533. Mr. Feldenstein,

1534. that I would be held under arrest for perjury.

1535. What did you reply to him?

1536. I... I told him what I had said again and again.

1537. I told him that I could not say anything else.

1538. I could not lie about someone who had been so kind to me.

1539. Were you held under arrest?

1540. Yes.

1541. Now, Mrs. Wallner, tell us

1542. what was the... the manner

1543. in which Emil Hahn conducted the prosecution?

1544. He... He made a mockery

1545. of everything Mr. Feldenstein tried to say in his own defense.

1546. He held him up to ridicule whenever possible.

1547. What was the reaction of the audience?

1548. They laughed.

1549. Again and again.

1550. How long did the trial last?

1551. Mrs. Wallner,

1552. how long did the trial last?

1553. Two days.

1554. Was the verdict passed at the end of the second day?

1555. Yes.

1556. - What was the verdict? - Guilty.

1557. And what was the sentence?

1558. Mr. Feldenstein was sentenced

1559. to be executed.

1560. I was sentenced to be imprisoned for two years, for perjury.

1561. Who was the presiding judge?

1562. Ernst Janning.

1563. Were the sentences carried out?

1564. Mmm.

1565. Thank you very much, Mrs. Wallner. That's all.

1566. Any questions?

1567. Your Honor, I would like to request that the witness

1568. be kept available.

1569. We will present further evidence on the Feldenstein matter

1570. when it comes time for the defense to present its case.

1571. The witness will please hold herself so available.

1572. You may go. You're excused now.

1573. Colonel Lawson?

1574. Your Honors,

1575. I offer in evidence a decree signed by Adolf Hitler

1576. directing that all persons accused or suspected of disloyalty

1577. or resistance of any sort, might be arrested secretly

1578. with no notice to friends or relatives, without any trial whatsoever,

1579. and put into concentration camps.

1580. I also offer a group of orders issued under that decree,

1581. each one signed by one of the defendants,

1582. by which hundreds of persons were arrested and placed in concentration camps.

1583. Signed by Friedrich Hoffstetter,

1584. Werner Lammpe,

1585. Emil Hahn,

1586. Ernst Janning.

1587. Your Honors,

1588. the defendants on trial here today

1589. did not personally administer the concentration camps.

1590. They never had to beat victims

1591. or pull the lever that released gas into the chambers.

1592. But as the documents we've introduced into this case have shown,

1593. these defendants fashioned and executed laws,

1594. and rendered judgments

1595. which sent millions of victims to their...

1596. Destinations.

1597. Major Radnitz?

1598. Your Honors, I would like to request that Colonel Lawson be sworn in as a witness.

1599. - Granted. - Thank you.

1600. Will you raise your right hand?

1601. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient,

1602. that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing.

1603. I do.

1604. Were you active in the United States Army in 1945 at the close of the war?

1605. Yes, I was.

1606. Were you in command of troops liberating concentration camps?

1607. I was.

1608. - Were you in Dachau and Belsen? - Yes.

1609. Were you present when the films we are about to see were taken?

1610. Yes, I was.

1611. Okay.

1612. The map shows the number of and location of concentration camps

1613. under the Third Reich.

1614. The Buchenwald concentration camp was founded in 1933.

1615. Its inmates numbered about 80,000.

1616. There was a motto at Buchenwald:

1617. "Break the body,

1618. "break the spirit,

1619. "break the heart."

1620. The ovens at Buchenwald.

1621. Evidence of last-minute efforts to dispose of bodies.

1622. The stoves were manufactured by a well-known company

1623. which also specialized in baking ovens.

1624. The name of the firm is clearly inscribed.

1625. An exhibit of byproducts of Buchenwald

1626. displayed for the local townspeople by an allied officer.

1627. Brushes of every description.

1628. Shoes, adults and children.

1629. Spectacles.

1630. Gold from teeth melted down,

1631. sent once a month to the medical department

1632. of the Waffen-S.S.

1633. A lampshade made from human skin.

1634. Skin being used for paintings,

1635. many having an obscene nature.

1636. The heads of two Polish laborers

1637. shrunken to one-fifth their normal size.

1638. A human pelvis used as an ashtray.

1639. Children who'd been tattooed to mark them for eventual extermination.

1640. Sometimes mercy was shown to the children.

1641. They were injected with morphia so they'd be unconscious when hanged.

1642. One of the doctors described

1643. how they'd then place ropes around their necks,

1644. and in the doctor's own words:

1645. "Like pictures, they were then hanged by hooks on the walls."

1646. The bodies of those who had come in boxcars

1647. without food and without air,

1648. who hadn't survived the journey to Dachau.

1649. Hundreds of inmates were used as human guinea pigs

1650. for atrocious medical experiments.

1651. A witness at one of the executions at Dachau gave the following description:

1652. "inmates were made to leave their clothing on a rack.

1653. "They were told they were going to take baths.

1654. "Then the doors were locked.

1655. "Tins of Zyklon B

1656. "were released through the specially constructed apertures.

1657. "You could hear the groaning and the whimpering inside.

1658. "After two or three minutes,

1659. "all was quiet."

1660. Death transports that had arrived included 90,000 from Slovakia,

1661. 65,000 from Greece,

1662. 11,000 from France,

1663. 90,000 from Holland,

1664. 400,000 from Hungary,

1665. 250,000 from Poland and upper Silesia,

1666. and 100,000 from Germany.

1667. And this is what was filmed

1668. when British troops liberated Belsen concentration camp.

1669. For sanitary reasons,

1670. a British bulldozer had to bury the bodies as quickly as possible.

1671. Who were the bodies?

1672. Members of every occupied country of Europe.

1673. Two-thirds of the Jews of Europe...

1674. Exterminated.

1675. More than six million

1676. according to reports from the Nazis' own figures.

1677. But the real figure...

1678. No one knows.

1679. How dare they show us those films? How dare they?

1680. We are not executioners. We are judges.

1681. You do not think it was like that, do you?

1682. There were executions, yes. But nothing like that. Nothing at all.

1683. Pohl!

1684. Pohl!

1685. You ran those concentration camps.

1686. You and Eichmann.

1687. They say we killed millions of people.

1688. Millions of people.

1689. How could it be possible?

1690. Tell them. How could it be possible?

1691. It's possible.

1692. How?

1693. You mean, technically?

1694. It all depends on your facilities.

1695. Say you have two chambers that accommodate 2,000 people apiece.

1696. Figure it out.

1697. It's possible to get rid of 10,000 in a half-hour.

1698. You don't even need guards to do it.

1699. You can tell them they are going to take a shower,

1700. and then instead of the water, you turn on the gas.

1701. It's not the killing that is the problem.

1702. It's disposing of the bodies.

1703. That's the problem.

1704. - I'm sorry I'm late. - That's all right.

1705. I was doing some work for the rebuilding committee.

1706. And I brought you some folders,

1707. so we can decide what you should see next.

1708. There's the Albrecht Durer House, and the museum.

1709. When do you think you could make it?

1710. Oh, anytime.

1711. Would you like to order now?

1712. What would you like? Can I help you with the menu?

1713. No. I don't think I'll have anything. Thank you.

1714. A glass of Moselle for me, please.

1715. The same.

1716. What's the matter?

1717. Nothing. I'm just not hungry, that's all.

1718. You know, it's, uh...

1719. The last few days have meant a great deal to me.

1720. How?

1721. Well, I don't think you realize what a provincial man I really am.

1722. Uh, I've been abroad just exactly once before this,

1723. and that was when I was a doughboy in World War I.

1724. I used to pass places like this and wonder what they were like.

1725. - They've meant a great deal to me, too. - How?

1726. They gave me back the feeling I had of the Americans.

1727. The feeling I used to have when I was in your country.

1728. - Too bad this isn't a magazine story. - Why?

1729. Well, if it were a magazine story, two people like us,

1730. the rapidly aging jurist...

1731. Oh, no, no.

1732. The rapidly aging jurist and the beautiful widow

1733. would transcend their difficulties and travel places

1734. either by land or by sea.

1735. I saw Mr. Perkins today.

1736. He told me they'd showed those pictures in the courtroom.

1737. Colonel Lawson's favorite pictures.

1738. He drags them out at any pretext, doesn't he?

1739. Colonel Lawson's private chamber of horrors.

1740. Is that what you think we are?

1741. Do you think we knew of those things?

1742. Do you think we wanted to murder women and children?

1743. Do you believe that? Do you?

1744. Mrs. Bertholt, I don't know what to believe.

1745. Good God. We're sitting here drinking.

1746. How could you think that we knew?

1747. We did not know.

1748. We did not know.

1749. As far as I can make out, no one in this country knew.

1750. Mrs. Bertholt, your husband was one of the heads of the Army.

1751. And he did not know. I tell you, he did not know.

1752. It was Himmler. It was Goebbels.

1753. The S.S. knew what happened. We did not know.

1754. Listen to me.

1755. There are things that happened on both sides.

1756. My husband was a military man all his life.

1757. He was entitled to a soldier's death. He asked for that.

1758. I tried to get that for him, just that, that he would die with some honor.

1759. I went from official to official. I begged for that.

1760. I begged for that.

1761. That he should be permitted the dignity of a firing squad.

1762. You know what happened?

1763. He was hanged with the others

1764. and after that, I knew what it was to hate.

1765. I never left the house, I never left the room.

1766. I drank.

1767. I hated with every fiber of my being.

1768. I hated every American I had ever known.

1769. But one can't live with hate, I know that.

1770. And we have to forget, if we are to go on living.

1771. Herr Rolfe?

1772. May it please the tribunal?

1773. Yesterday the tribunal witnessed some films.

1774. They were...

1775. Shocking films,

1776. devastating films.

1777. As a German,

1778. I feel ashamed that such things could have taken place in my country.

1779. There can never be a justification for them.

1780. Not in generations,

1781. not in centuries.

1782. But...

1783. I do think it was wrong,

1784. indecent

1785. and terribly unfair of the prosecution

1786. to show such films in this case,

1787. in this court,

1788. at this time,

1789. against these defendants!

1790. And I cannot protest too strongly

1791. against such tactics.

1792. What is the prosecution trying to prove?

1793. Is it trying to prove that the German people as a whole

1794. were responsible for these events?

1795. Or that they were even aware of them?

1796. Because if he is,

1797. he's not stating facts,

1798. and he knows he's not.

1799. The secrecy of the operations,

1800. the geographical location of the camps,

1801. the breakdown of communications in the last days of the war

1802. when the exterminations rose into the millions

1803. show only too clearly that he is not telling the truth!

1804. The truth is

1805. that these brutalities were brought about by the few extremists.

1806. The criminals.

1807. Very few German knew what was going on.

1808. Very few.

1809. None of us knew what was happening

1810. in the places shown in these films.

1811. None of us.

1812. But the most ironic part of it is...

1813. That the prosecution showed these films against these defendants,

1814. men who stayed in power for one reason only,

1815. to prevent worse things from happening.

1816. Who is the braver man?

1817. The man who escapes, or resigns in times of peril,

1818. or the man who stays on his post

1819. at the risk of his own personal safety?

1820. The defense will present witnesses and letters and documents

1821. from religious and political refugees all over the world

1822. telling how Ernst Janning saved them from execution.

1823. The defense will show that many times

1824. Ernst Janning was able to effect mitigation of sentences

1825. when, without his influence, the results would have been much worse.

1826. The defense will show

1827. that Ernst Janning's personal physician was a non-Aryan,

1828. a Jewish man,

1829. who he kept in attendance, much to his own peril.

1830. The defense presents affidavits

1831. from legal authorities and famed jurists the world over

1832. pleading that special considerations must be made in this case,

1833. saying that the entire work of Ernst Janning

1834. was inspired by one motive, and one motive only:

1835. The endeavor to preserve justice and the concept of justice.

1836. Now,

1837. what has the prosecution to offer

1838. against this?

1839. The prosecution, in fact,

1840. has presented in the case of Ernst Janning, only one tangible piece of evidence.

1841. The Feldenstein case.

1842. A notorious case, as the defense has said.

1843. A case which never should have been reopened.

1844. A case which the defense is obliged

1845. to review now.

1846. The defense calls Mrs. Elsa Lindnow.

1847. Will you raise your right hand?

1848. I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient,

1849. that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.

1850. I do.

1851. Mrs. Lindnow,

1852. what is your occupation?

1853. I am a cleaning woman.

1854. Where are you employed?

1855. 400... 345, Grosse Platz.

1856. - Did you know Lehman Feldenstein? - Yes. I knew him.

1857. In what capacity?

1858. He was my employer in 1935.

1859. Do you know the witness, Mrs. Irene Hoffman Wallner?

1860. Yes.

1861. In what capacity?

1862. She was a tenant in the building.

1863. Did you ever see Miss Hoffman and Mr. Feldenstein together?

1864. Yes.

1865. How did this happen?

1866. Mr. Feldenstein came to see Miss Hoffman at her apartment.

1867. Often?

1868. Quite often.

1869. Were there any occasions in which you noticed anything unusual?

1870. Yes.

1871. I saw Miss Hoffman kissing Mr. Feldenstein at the door of her apartment.

1872. Was there any other occasion?

1873. Yes, there was one.

1874. What was it?

1875. I came to Miss Hoffman's apartment.

1876. Uh, I wanted to clean up.

1877. I thought it was empty.

1878. Uh, I saw Miss Hoffman sitting on Mr. Feldenstein's lap.

1879. Thank you, Mrs. Lindnow. That's all.

1880. Colonel Lawson?

1881. Earphones, please.

1882. Mrs. Lindnow, what are your political affiliations?

1883. - Political? - Objection, Your Honor.

1884. This witness' political affiliations have nothing to do with the testimony.

1885. Colonel Lawson is once more trying to appeal to the emotion of the court.

1886. Objection overruled.

1887. Now would you answer the question, please?

1888. Were you a member of the National Socialist Party?

1889. Yes, I was.

1890. We were forced to be.

1891. "We were forced to be."

1892. Now when did you become a member of the Nazi Party?

1893. 1933.

1894. Were all German nationals forced

1895. to become members of the Nazi Party in 1933?

1896. Please answer me, Mrs. Lindnow.

1897. Were you forced to become a member of the Nazi Party?

1898. That's all.

1899. Witness is excused.

1900. Defense may continue.

1901. The defense calls Irene Hoffman Wallner to the stand.

1902. Mrs. Wallner,

1903. you are still under oath.

1904. Mrs. Wallner, did you come here voluntarily?

1905. Did you report voluntarily to speak as a witness?

1906. Yes.

1907. Is it not true that the prosecution asked you to come here?

1908. That it was very disagreeable for you to come here?

1909. It is always very disagreeable to live over those times.

1910. That would be in agreement

1911. with the information I have that you did not want to come.

1912. Thank you, Mrs. Wallner.

1913. Mrs. Wallner,

1914. the Nuremberg laws were stated September 15, 1935.

1915. - Where were you at that time? - In Nuremberg.

1916. Did you know these laws?

1917. Were you aware that a physical relationship with Jews

1918. was against the law?

1919. Yes.

1920. Were you aware that in Nuremberg, and in Nuremberg in particular,

1921. not only a physical relationship with Jews was viewed with disdain,

1922. but every social contact?

1923. Yes.

1924. Were you aware that it might have some danger for you personally?

1925. Yes, I was aware of it.

1926. But how can you discard a friendship from day to day because of some...

1927. That is another question, Mrs. Wallner.

1928. I did not ask you that question.

1929. - Were you aware of it? - Yes, I was aware.

1930. - Yet you still continued to see each other? - Yes.

1931. Remember, it was brought out at the tribunal

1932. that Mr. Feldenstein bought you things.

1933. - Candy and cigarettes? - Yes.

1934. Remember that sometimes he bought you flowers?

1935. Yes, he bought me many things.

1936. That was because he was kind.

1937. He was the kindest man I ever knew.

1938. Do you know the witness, Mrs. Elsa Lindnow?

1939. Yes, I know her.

1940. Was she a cleaning woman at the apartment you lived in?

1941. Yes.

1942. Did Mr. Feldenstein come to see you at your apartment?

1943. Yes.

1944. How many times?

1945. I don't, uh, remember.

1946. - Several times? - Yes.

1947. - Many times? - Many times.

1948. - Did you kiss him? - Yes, I kissed him.

1949. Was there more than one kiss?

1950. Yes.

1951. But it was not in the way you are trying to make it sound.

1952. He was like a father to me.

1953. He was more than a father.

1954. More than a father?

1955. - Did you sit on his lap? - Objection!

1956. Counsel is persecuting the witness in the pretext of gaining testimony.

1957. Objection overruled.

1958. The defense is being permitted to reenact

1959. what was a travesty of justice in the first place.

1960. Colonel Lawson, the tribunal makes the rulings in this case, not the prosecution.

1961. You may proceed.

1962. - Did you sit on his lap? - Yes.

1963. But there was nothing wrong or ugly about it.

1964. Did you sit on his lap?

1965. Yes, but...

1966. You sat on his lap. What else did you do?

1967. There was nothing that you are trying to say.

1968. There was nothing like that.

1969. What else did you do, Mrs. Wallner?

1970. What are you trying to do?

1971. Are you trying to...

1972. Why do you not let me speak the truth?

1973. That's what we want, Mrs. Wallner.

1974. The truth, the truth.

1975. You admitted that you continued to see him.

1976. You admitted that he came to your apartment.

1977. You admitted you kissed him.

1978. You admitted you sat on his lap.

1979. What else do you admit to? What else?

1980. Nothing.

1981. There was nothing like you're trying to make it sound.

1982. What else?

1983. There was nothing. Nothing.

1984. Stop it.

1985. — Stop it!

1986. What else do you admit to. Mrs. Wallner? What else?

1987. Herr Rolfe!

1988. Are we going to do this again?

1989. Your Honor,

1990. the stress the defendant has been under is so great that he is not aware...

1991. I am aware.

1992. I am aware.

1993. Your Honor, the defendant wishes to make a statement.

1994. Your Honor, I believe the defense has a right to request...

1995. — Order. Order. Order!

1996. Does the defendant wish to make a statement?

1997. I wish to make a statement, yes.

1998. Your Honor, I believe the defense has the right to request a recess...

1999. Your Honor, the defendant has the right to make his statement now.

2000. I have to speak with my client.

2001. He has the right to make it now!

2002. Tribunal is adjourned until 10:30 tomorrow morning.

2003. What are you doing?

2004. What do you think you're trying to do?

2005. They've had Goering. Frank. Stretcher.

2006. That's over.

2007. Do you think I have enjoyed being defense counsel during this trial?

2008. There were things I had to do in that courtroom that made me cringe.

2009. Why did I do them?

2010. Because I want to leave the German people something.

2011. I want to leave them a shred of dignity.

2012. I want to call a halt to these proceedings.

2013. If we allow them to discredit every German like you,

2014. we lose the right to rule ourselves forever.

2015. We have to look at the future. We can't look back now.

2016. Do you want the Americans to stay here forever? Do you want that?

2017. I could show you a picture of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

2018. Thousands and thousands of burned bodies.

2019. Women and children.

2020. Is that their superior morality?

2021. Where do you think they take us? Do you think they know?

2022. Do you think they have any concept of our problems?

2023. What can I say to you?

2024. What can I say to you to make you see?

2025. There is nothing you can say.

2026. Nothing.

2027. Nothing has happened to alleviate the crisis.

2028. The crisis reached a head this afternoon

2029. when all rail travel between western zones and Berlin was stopped.

2030. The blockade by land is now complete.

2031. What do you think we're going to do, General?

2032. - Do you think we'll withdraw? - We can't withdraw.

2033. If we withdraw under pressure,

2034. our prestige all over the world is threatened.

2035. The communists will move in on every front.

2036. What about these trials, General?

2037. How do you feel about them now?

2038. We're committed to the trials.

2039. But I think it would be realistic to accelerate them as much as possible.

2040. What would happen if they fired on one of our planes, General?

2041. I'm afraid we'll have to face that when it happens.

2042. There is no other answer to that question at this time.

2043. You fellows should try some of the strudel. It's excellent here.

2044. No, thanks.

2045. Dan, I've just come back from Berlin, as you know.

2046. I don't think this is going to be it.

2047. A lot of people do, but I don't.

2048. But it is going to be a fight for survival for the next 10 years, maybe the next 20.

2049. Germany is the key to that survival.

2050. Any high-school student in geography can tell you that.

2051. Just what are you trying to say, Senator?

2052. What I'm trying to say is this:

2053. While nobody's trying to influence your decision,

2054. it's important that you realize this, because it's a fact of life.

2055. Let's face it, gentlemen.

2056. The handwriting is on the wall.

2057. We're going to need all the help we can get.

2058. We're going to need the support of the German people.

2059. More strudel, gentlemen?

2060. Herr Janning, you may proceed.

2061. I wish to testify about the Feldenstein case

2062. because it was the most significant trial of the period.

2063. It is important not only for the tribunal to understand it,

2064. but for the whole German people.

2065. But in order to understand it,

2066. one must understand the period in which it happened.

2067. There was a fever over the land.

2068. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger.

2069. We had a democracy, yes.

2070. But it was torn by elements within.

2071. Above all, there was fear:

2072. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow,

2073. fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves.

2074. Only when you understand that,

2075. can you understand what Hitler meant to us.

2076. Because he said to us:

2077. "Lift your heads.

2078. "Be proud to be German.

2079. "There are devils among us:

2080. "Communists, liberals, Jews, gypsies.

2081. "Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed."

2082. it was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb.

2083. What about those of us who knew better?

2084. We who knew the words were lies, and worse than lies?

2085. Why did we sit silent?

2086. Why did we take part?

2087. Because we loved our country.

2088. What difference does it make

2089. if a few political extremists lose their rights?

2090. What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights?

2091. It is only a passing phase.

2092. It is only a stage we are going through.

2093. It will be discarded sooner or later.

2094. Hitler himself will be discarded sooner or later.

2095. The country is in danger.

2096. We will march out of the shadows. We will go forward.

2097. Forward is the great password.

2098. And history tells how well we succeeded, Your Honor.

2099. We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.

2100. The very elements of hate and power about Hitler

2101. that mesmerized Germany mesmerized the world.

2102. We found ourselves with sudden, powerful allies.

2103. Things that had been denied to us as a democracy

2104. were open to us now.

2105. The world said, "Go ahead, take it.

2106. "Take it.

2107. "Take Sudetenland, take the Rhineland, remilitarize it.

2108. "Take all of Austria. Take it."

2109. And then, one day, we looked around

2110. and found that we were in an even more terrible danger.

2111. The ritual began in this courtroom,

2112. swept over the land like a raging, roaring disease.

2113. What was going to be a passing phase

2114. had become the way of life.

2115. Your Honor,

2116. I was content to sit silent during this trial.

2117. I was content to tend my roses.

2118. I was even content

2119. to let counsel try to save my name.

2120. Until I realized

2121. that in order to save it, he would have to raise the specter again.

2122. You have seen him do it.

2123. He has done it here in this courtroom.

2124. He has suggested that the Third Reich worked for the benefit of people.

2125. He has suggested that we sterilized men for the welfare of the country.

2126. He has suggested that perhaps

2127. the old Jew did sleep with the 16-year-old girl, after all.

2128. Once more, it is being done

2129. for love of country.

2130. It is not easy to tell the truth.

2131. But if there is to be any salvation for Germany,

2132. we who know our guilt must admit it,

2133. whatever the pain

2134. and humiliation.

2135. I had reached my verdict

2136. on the Feldenstein case

2137. before I ever came into the courtroom.

2138. I would have found him guilty, whatever the evidence.

2139. It was not a trial at all. It was a sacrificial ritual

2140. in which Feldenstein, the Jew, was the helpless victim.

2141. Your Honor, I must interrupt.

2142. The defendant is not aware of what he is saying.

2143. He is not aware of the implications...

2144. I am aware. I am aware.

2145. My counsel would have you believe

2146. we were not aware of the concentration camps.

2147. Not aware.

2148. Where were we?

2149. Where were we when Hitler began shrieking his hate in the Reichstag?

2150. Where were we when our neighbors were being dragged out

2151. in the middle of the night to Dachau?

2152. Where were we when every village in Germany has a rail road terminal

2153. where cattle cars were filled with children being carried off to their extermination?

2154. Where were we when they cried out in the night to us?

2155. Were we deaf? Dumb? Blind?

2156. Your Honor, I must protest.

2157. My counsel says we were not aware of the extermination of the millions.

2158. He would give you the excuse

2159. we were only aware of the extermination of the hundreds.

2160. Does that make us any the less guilty?

2161. Maybe we didn't know the details.

2162. But if we didn't know, it was because we didn't want to know.

2163. Traitor! Traitor!

2164. Order. Order! Order!

2165. Put that man back in his seat and keep him there.

2166. I am going to tell them the truth.

2167. I am going to tell them the truth,

2168. if the whole world conspires against it.

2169. I am going to tell them the truth

2170. about their ministry of justice.

2171. Werner Lammpe, an old man who cries into his Bible now.

2172. An old man who profited by the property expropriation

2173. of every man he sent to a concentration camp.

2174. Friedrich Hoffstetter,

2175. the good German who knew how to take orders,

2176. who sent men before him to be sterilized like so many digits.

2177. Emil Hahn,

2178. the decayed, corrupt bigot,

2179. obsessed by the evil within himself.

2180. And Ernst Janning,

2181. worse than any of them

2182. because he knew what they were,

2183. and he went along with them.

2184. Ernst Janning,

2185. who made his life

2186. excrement

2187. because he walked with them.

2188. Your Honor,

2189. it is my duty

2190. to defend Ernst Janning.

2191. And yet, Ernst Janning has said he is guilty.

2192. There is no doubt he feels his guilt.

2193. He made a great error in going along with the Nazi Movement

2194. hoping it would be good for his country.

2195. But if he is to be found guilty,

2196. there are others who also went along,

2197. who also must be found guilty.

2198. Ernst Janning said:

2199. "We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."

2200. Why did we succeed, Your Honor?

2201. What about the rest of the world?

2202. Did it not know the intentions of the Third Reich?

2203. Did it not hear the words of Hitler's broadcasts all over the world?

2204. Did it not read his intentions in Mein Kampf,

2205. published in every corner of the world?

2206. Where is the responsibility of the Soviet Union

2207. who signed in 1939 the pact with Hitler,

2208. enabled him to make war?

2209. Are we now to find Russia guilty?

2210. Where is the responsibility of the Vatican

2211. who signed in 1933 the concordat with Hitler,

2212. giving him his first tremendous prestige?

2213. Are we now to find the Vatican guilty?

2214. Where is the responsibility of the world leader Winston Churchill,

2215. who said in an open letter to the London Times in 1938,

2216. 1938, Your Honor:

2217. "Were England to suffer a national disaster, I should pray to God

2218. "to send a man of the strength of mind and will of an Adolf Hitler."

2219. Are we now to find Winston Churchill guilty?

2220. Where is the responsibility of those American industrialists

2221. who helped Hitler to rebuild his armaments,

2222. and profited by that rebuilding?

2223. Are we now to find the American industrialists guilty?

2224. No, Your Honor. No.

2225. Germany alone is not guilty.

2226. The whole world is as responsible for Hitler as Germany.

2227. It is an easy thing to condemn one man in the dock.

2228. It's easy to condemn the German people,

2229. to speak of the basic flaw in the German character

2230. that allowed Hitler to rise to power, and at the same time,

2231. comfortably ignore the basic flaw of character

2232. that made the Russians sign pacts with him, Winston Churchill praise him,

2233. American industrialists profit by him.

2234. Ernst Janning said he is guilty.

2235. If he is,

2236. Ernst Janning's guilt is the world's guilt.

2237. No more, no less.

2238. Major, we have to give the Military Governor

2239. every help that we can give him.

2240. We have to get 700 tons in the air a day.

2241. 700 tons.

2242. This is some operation.

2243. Did you ever think we'd be flying coal and tomatoes in these crates?

2244. Tad, you and I have been friends a long time.

2245. That's why I called you here.

2246. What are you going to do in court tomorrow?

2247. You know damn we“ what I'm gem' to do.

2248. I know what you want to do:

2249. You'd like to recommend they put 'em behind bars and throw away the key.

2250. You know what's going on here now?

2251. Yeah.

2252. I know what's going on.

2253. Tad, you're an army man. You know what we're up against.

2254. The others may not, but you do.

2255. I'll tell you the truth.

2256. I don't know what's going to happen if they fire on one of those planes.

2257. I don't know what's going to happen.

2258. If Berlin goes, Germany goes.

2259. If Germany goes, Europe goes.

2260. That's the way things stand.

2261. That's the way they stand.

2262. Look, Matt, I'm goin' to go the limit.

2263. And not you, not the Pentagon,

2264. not God on his throne is going to make me...

2265. Who do you think you're talking to?

2266. Who the hell do you think you're talking to?

2267. When you were marching into Dachau with those troops, I was there, too.

2268. You think I'll ever forget it?

2269. Look, I'm not your commanding officer.

2270. I can't influence your decision, and I don't want to.

2271. But I want to give this to you, and I want to give it to you straight.

2272. We need the help of the German people.

2273. And you don't get the help of the German people

2274. by sentencing their leaders to stiff prison sentences.

2275. Tad...

2276. The thing to do is survive, isn't it?

2277. Survive as best we can, but survive.

2278. Just for laughs, Matt,

2279. what was the war all about?

2280. What was it about?

2281. And that concludes presentation of documentary evidence

2282. against these defendants.

2283. Your Honors,

2284. during the three years that have passed since the end of the war in Europe,

2285. mankind has not crossed over into Jordan.

2286. In our own country, fear of war has been revived.

2287. And we must look once more to our defenses.

2288. There's talk of cold war, while men and women die in real wars.

2289. And the echoes of persecution

2290. and atrocities

2291. will not be stilled.

2292. These events cannot help but color what happens in this courtroom.

2293. But somewhere in the midst of these events,

2294. the responsibility for the crimes that we brought forward during this trial

2295. must be placed in true perspective.

2296. And this is the decision that faces Your Honors.

2297. It is the dilemma of our times.

2298. It is a dilemma that...

2299. That rests with you.

2300. The prosecution rests.

2301. The defendants may now make their final statements.

2302. Defendant Emil Hahn may address the tribunal.

2303. Your Honors,

2304. I do not evade the responsibility for my actions.

2305. On the contrary, I stand by them before the entire world.

2306. But I will not follow the policy of others.

2307. I will not say of our policy today that it was wrong

2308. when yesterday I say it was right.

2309. Germany was fighting for its life.

2310. Certain measures were needed to protect it from its enemies.

2311. I cannot say that I am sorry we applied those measures.

2312. We were a bulwark against Bolshevism.

2313. We were a pillar of Western culture.

2314. A bulwark and a pillar the West may yet wish to retain.

2315. The defendant Friedrich Hoffstetter may address the tribunal.

2316. I have served my country throughout my life

2317. and in whatever position I was assigned to,

2318. in faithfulness, with a pure heart, and without malice.

2319. I followed the concept that I believed to be the highest in my profession.

2320. The concept that says:

2321. "To sacrifice one's own sense of justice to the authoritative legal order.

2322. "To ask only what the law is

2323. "and not to ask whether or not it is also justice."

2324. As a judge, I could do no other.

2325. I believe Your Honors will find me,

2326. and millions of Germans like me

2327. who believed they were doing their duty to their country,

2328. to be not guilty.

2329. The defendant Werner Lammpe may address the tribunal.

2330. Your Honors...

2331. Your Honors...

2332. The defendant Ernst Janning may address the tribunal.

2333. I have nothing to add to what I have said.

2334. The testimony has been received in the case.

2335. Final arguments have been heard.

2336. There remains nothing now but the task of the tribunal to render its decision.

2337. The tribunal will recess until further notification.

2338. Now, I've collected several precedents and arguments here

2339. that have a bearing on the basis of the case,

2340. which is, of course, the conflict between allegiance to international law

2341. and to the laws of one's own country.

2342. Dan, we have a mountain of material to go over here.

2343. What are you looking at, Dan?

2344. Hmm? Oh, I was...

2345. I was, uh, looking at some of these pictures attached to the warrants for arrest.

2346. What pictures?

2347. Well, there's Petersen, before they operated on him.

2348. And here's Irene Hoffman.

2349. She really was 16 once, wasn't she?

2350. Feldenstein.

2351. And here's the situation of a boy,

2352. certainly couldn't have been more than 14.

2353. Executed for saying things against the Third Reich.

2354. "By order of justice Friedrich Hoffstetter."

2355. If I may say so, more pertinent to the legal basis of the case,

2356. I have the opening address of the French prosecutor

2357. before the International Military Tribunal.

2358. "It is obvious that in the state organized along modern lines

2359. "responsibility is confined to those who act directly for the State.

2360. "Since they alone are in a position to judge the legitimacy of the given orders,

2361. "they alone can be prosecuted."

2362. I have another from Professor Jahrreiss' legal aspects,

2363. trial of the major war criminals.

2364. On the basis of these, I don't see where the prosecution has put forth

2365. a really clear-cut case against the defense pertaining to the charges in the indictment.

2366. Regardless of the acts committed,

2367. we cannot make the interpretation that these defendants

2368. are really responsible for crimes against humanity.

2369. What do you think, Dan?

2370. Dan, we've been going over these points all day.

2371. If it isn't clear now...

2372. Aren't you going to look at these precedents?

2373. Aren't you interested at all?

2374. Yes, I'm interested, Curtiss.

2375. You were speaking of crimes against humanity

2376. saying that the defendants were not responsible for their acts.

2377. I'd like you to explain that to me.

2378. I've just been explaining it.

2379. Well, maybe.

2380. But all I've heard is a lot of legalistic double-talk and rationalization.

2381. You know, Curtiss, when I first became a judge,

2382. I... I knew there were certain people in town I wasn't supposed to touch.

2383. I knew that if I was to remain a judge, this was so.

2384. But how in God's name do you expect me to look the other way

2385. at the murder of six million people?

2386. Oh, I'm sure he didn't mean that.

2387. I'm not asking you to look the other way at them.

2388. I'm asking you, what good is it going to do to pursue this policy?

2389. Curtiss, you were saying that the men are not responsible for their acts.

2390. You're going to have to explain that to me.

2391. You're going to have to explain it very carefully.

2392. The tribunal is now in session.

2393. God bless the United States of America and this honorable tribunal.

2394. The trial conducted before this tribunal began over eight months ago.

2395. The record of evidence is more than 10,000 pages long

2396. and final arguments of counsel have been concluded.

2397. Simple murders and atrocities do not constitute

2398. the gravamen of the charges in this indictment.

2399. Rather, the charge is that of conscious participation

2400. in a nationwide, government-organized system

2401. of cruelty and injustice

2402. in violation of every moral and legal principle

2403. known to all civilized nations.

2404. The tribunal has carefully studied the record

2405. and found therein

2406. abundant evidence to support beyond a reasonable doubt

2407. the charges against these defendants.

2408. Herr Rowe

2409. in his very skillful defense

2410. has asserted that there are others

2411. who must share the ultimate responsibility

2412. for what happened here in Germany.

2413. There is truth in this.

2414. The real complaining party at the bar in this courtroom is civilization.

2415. But the tribunal does say

2416. that the men in the dock are responsible for their actions.

2417. Men who sat in black robes

2418. in judgment on other men.

2419. Men who took part

2420. in the enactment of laws and decrees,

2421. the purpose of which was the extermination of human beings.

2422. Men who, in executive positions,

2423. actively participated in the enforcement of these laws,

2424. illegal even under German law.

2425. The principle

2426. of criminal law in every civilized society has this in common:

2427. Any person who sways another to commit murder,

2428. any person who furnishes

2429. the lethal weapon for the purpose of the crime,

2430. any person who is an accessory to the crime

2431. is guilty.

2432. Herr Rowe

2433. further asserts that the defendant Janning

2434. was an extraordinary jurist

2435. and acted in what he thought was the best interest of his country.

2436. There is truth in this also.

2437. Janning, to be sure,

2438. is a tragic figure.

2439. We believe he loathed the evil he did.

2440. But compassion for the present torture of his soul

2441. must not beget forgetfulness

2442. of the torture and the death of millions by the government of which he was a part.

2443. Janning's record and his fate

2444. illuminate the most shattering truth that has emerged from this trial.

2445. If he and all of the other defendants had been degraded perverts,

2446. if all of the leaders of the Third Reich

2447. had been sadistic monsters and maniacs,

2448. then these events would have no more moral significance

2449. than an earthquake, or any other natural catastrophe.

2450. But this trial has shown

2451. that under a national crisis,

2452. ordinary, even able and extraordinary men

2453. can delude themselves into the commission of crimes

2454. so vast and heinous that they beggar the imagination.

2455. No one who has sat through the trial can ever forget them.

2456. Men sterilized because of political belief.

2457. A mockery made of friendship and faith.

2458. The murder of children.

2459. How easily it can happen.

2460. There are those in our own country, too,

2461. who today speak of the protection of country, of survival.

2462. A decision must be made in the life of every nation

2463. at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat.

2464. Then it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy,

2465. to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way.

2466. Well, then, the answer to that is:

2467. survival as what?

2468. A country isn't a rock.

2469. It's not an extension of one's self.

2470. It's what it stands for.

2471. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult.

2472. Before the people of the world

2473. let it now be noted

2474. that here in our decision, this is what we stand for:

2475. Justice,

2476. truth,

2477. and the value of a single human being.

2478. The marshal will produce before the tribunal the defendant Hahn.

2479. Emil Hahn,

2480. the tribunal finds you guilty

2481. and sentences you to life imprisonment.

2482. Today you sentence me. Tomorrow the Bolsheviks sentence you.

2483. The marshal will produce the defendant Hoffstetter before the tribunal.

2484. Friedrich Hoffstetter,

2485. the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment.

2486. The marshal will produce the defendant Lammpe before the tribunal.

2487. Werner Lammpe,

2488. the tribunal finds you guilty

2489. and sentences you to life imprisonment.

2490. The marshal will produce the defendant Ernst Janning before the tribunal.

2491. Ernst Janning,

2492. the tribunal finds you guilty

2493. and sentences you to life imprisonment.

2494. He doesn't understand.

2495. He just doesn't understand.

2496. He understands.

2497. Justice Ives dissenting.

2498. I wish to point out strongly

2499. my dissenting vote from the decision of this tribunal

2500. as stated by Justice Haywood,

2501. and in which Justice Norris concurred.

2502. The issue of the actions of the defendants

2503. who believed they were acting in the best interests of their country

2504. is an issue that cannot be decided in a courtroom alone.

2505. It can only be decided objectively

2506. in years to come, in the true perspective of history.

2507. And, uh, where shall I put these books, Your Honor?

2508. - Put them in the trunk, Mr. Halbestadt. - Yeah.

2509. Your Honor, here's something for you to have on the plane.

2510. Oh, oh, no. If you give me any more food, Mrs. Halbestadt,

2511. I... I won't have any room for anything else.

2512. But it's strudel, the way you like it.

2513. Thank you. Thank you for everything.

2514. Yeah.

2515. - I'll put it in the car for you. - Thanks.

2516. Tickets, passport, immunization. All in order.

2517. I'll have your baggage checks and boarding pass at the airport.

2518. - Thank you. - See you there no later than 3:00.

2519. Right.

2520. Oh, and give my regards to Miss... What was her name?

2521. Scheffler. Elsa.

2522. That's one you owe me.

2523. What do you mean?

2524. Americans aren't very popular in Nuremberg this morning.

2525. Good afternoon, Your Honor.

2526. Good afternoon.

2527. I came here at the request of my client, Ernst Janning.

2528. He wishes to see you.

2529. I'm just leaving for the airport.

2530. He says it would mean a great deal to him.

2531. Have you heard about the verdict in the I.G. Farben case?

2532. Most of them were acquitted.

2533. The others received light sentences.

2534. The verdict came in today.

2535. No, I hadn't heard.

2536. I will make you a wager.

2537. I don't make wagers.

2538. A gentleman's wager.

2539. In five years, the men you sentenced to life imprisonment will be free.

2540. Herr Rolfe, I have admired your work in the courtroom for many months.

2541. You are particularly brilliant in your use of logic.

2542. Thank you.

2543. So what you suggest may very well happen.

2544. It is logical, in view of the times in which we live.

2545. But to be logical is not to be right.

2546. And nothing on God's earth could ever make it right.

2547. Someone to see you.

2548. Herr Janning.

2549. Judge Haywood.

2550. Please, sit down.

2551. Thank you. You wanted to see me?

2552. Yes. There is something I... I want to give you.

2553. A record.

2554. A record of my cases.

2555. The ones I remember.

2556. I want to give them to someone I can trust,

2557. someone I felt I got to know during the trial.

2558. Thank you.

2559. I'll take good care of them.

2560. I know the pressures that have been brought upon you.

2561. You will be criticized greatly.

2562. Your decision will not be a popular one.

2563. But if it means anything to you,

2564. you have the respect of at least one of the men you convicted.

2565. By all that is right in this world, your verdict was a just one.

2566. Thank you.

2567. What you said in the courtroom, it needed to be said.

2568. Judge Haywood,

2569. the reason I asked you to come...

2570. Those people,

2571. those millions of people,

2572. I never knew it would come to that.

2573. You must believe it.

2574. You must believe it.

2575. Herr Janning,

2576. it came to that the first time you sentenced a man to death

2577. you knew to be innocent.