I Am Trying to Break Your Heart: A Film About Wilco (2002)

1. - In some ways, they made their most ambitious record yet,

2. and ambition is not synonymous with record sales.

3. You know?

4. I mean, this is not,

5. this is a masterful,

6. dense, artistic statement.

7. It could bomb.

8. - I need more piano.

9. - Less noise?

10. - Less noise.

11. - Yeah, I could take less noise.

12. - One, two, three.

13. No, I'm sorry.

14. - What are you doing?

15. - Hello. - Hello.

16. Welcome to our movie.

17. We are going to be seeing lots of film

18. about Wilco today.

19. - I gotta say, we're pretty lucky that I think Wilco

20. is in a position

21. where they can make the record they wanna make.

22. I mean, there is definitely...

23. I don't know if I'd call it pressure,

24. but there's definitely a feeling

25. that this is sort of the moment.

26. - They are very funny guys.

27. Give him a cigarette.

28. - Oh, yeah, yeah.

29. I need a piece of gum.

30. - I think,

31. and of course hope,

32. that this record is gonna be a pretty big priority

33. for Warner when it comes out,

34. and you don't get that every time you put a record out.

35. - So, anyway, I was touring,

36. was touring on the road with Wilco.

37. Oh, here's your gum back.

38. - One, two...

39. - You know, there are two kinds of potential.

40. There's artistic potential

41. which I think for them is unlimited,

42. and there is commercial potential

43. which is really quite mysterious to us

44. because there are so many factors

45. that are out of your control,

46. and we try not to think about it too much

47. and just try, you know,

48. try to make a great record, and hope, and push

49. the label to make the right decisions

50. and do the right things promotion-wise and so on.

51. - This is an interactive band.

52. These are four, five people, you know,

53. who make music together,

54. and the music wouldn't sound the way it does

55. unless these five people are together in the room

56. at the same time making the music.

57. - It's a constant process.

58. I mean, we make records and they're, um...

59. That ends up being a thing, you know, that you're making,

60. and you have a million options as to what that thing can be

61. and what shape it can be.

62. We generally go for a pretty straight definitive version

63. of what the song sounds like it should be,

64. and then deconstruct it a little bit,

65. and see if there's some more exciting way

66. to approach it.

67. There's no reason at all, not to destroy it, you know?

68. We made it, so it's ours to destroy,

69. and that's liberating and exciting in a really creative way.

70. I think this record's more of a leap for the band.

71. This is probably the closest to pure collaboration

72. Wilco has ever got.

73. - And personally, I'm really happy

74. 'cause Jeff and I have done a lot of this stuff together.

75. This is the first time

76. that Jeff and I have made a conscious effort

77. to get together at the loft and write songs.

78. - Not that things don't happen spontaneously

79. with the Wilco recordings,

80. but there is a lot of conferring with each other,

81. a lot of deliberation, a lot of, like Jeff was talking,

82. destroying what we've done,

83. trying it from the backdoor, turning it upside down.

84. Uh, okay.

85. - It's the first record

86. where we've really done everything ourselves.

87. And now, we're engineering it ourselves,

88. and we're doing it in our space.

89. We're doing two seemingly contradictory things.

90. We're making a record in a very relaxed environment

91. with no outside input,

92. but at the same time,

93. we're accepting a certain kind of pressure

94. that we're putting on ourselves.

95. - I mean, it's nice not to have a producer from Wilco

96. because we're all, any one of us, perfectly capable of

97. directing or shaping a musical moment.

98. - Everything is just kind of set up,

99. I mean, to just keep making records.

100. - I know it's cool to bitch about your record label,

101. you know?

102. But, I mean, they're letting us make a record

103. in our loft, and they haven't heard a word of it.

104. They're giving us $85,000,

105. and they haven't heard a word it.

106. You know? That's trust, right?

107. They trust us.

108. You're always playing the...

109. You're pretty much doing one, five, six, four on all the...

110. A lot of times when you're playing,

111. if you don't have any sonic landscape behind you,

112. everything turns into a folk song.

113. That's pretty much what you do right?

114. - Yeah.

115. - We just wanted it to not sound like a little folk ditty,

116. you know?

117. So we wanted to have just some kind of sonic weight

118. under all of that, and uh,

119. just something kinda weird and fucked up.

120. - Tune the A string to a B flat and it...

121. - And then you put them together,

122. and you'll get some really magical moments.

123. - And we thought that might be rhythmic enough to play to.

124. - It's kind of, along with some of the more noise tracks,

125. but it's rhythmic, so it's something

126. that they can play along to.

127. - It's about three in the morning.

128. We're either gonna get something great

129. or lose our fucking minds.

130. All these things are just blaring in here, you know?

131. That's when it all kind of exploded.

132. - [Female Shortwave Radio Voice] Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

133. Yankee

134. Hotel

135. Foxtrot.

136. Yankee

137. Hotel

138. Foxtrot.

139. - Hey, how you doing, man? - Good to see you.

140. One, two, three.

141. One, two, three, call it Rock and...

142. So, with the community that you are doing now,

143. did you play music...

144. Do you think that your music reaches out to the children

145. who don't have a fighting chance?

146. - Um...

147. I'll sign that.

148. If you know how to spell Simone. - S-I-M-O-N-E?

149. - That sounds like right, yeah.

150. - Real pal.

151. - Your record...

152. I have an idea.

153. Does it come out on compact disc?

154. - Mmhmm.

155. - Seriously, let's just do a lot

156. of good crowd control tonight, and,

157. you know, bring up the whole political thing.

158. Just fucking...

159. Yeah, the whole thing about women's rights,

160. lesbian's rights, and stuff like that.

161. - I'm gonna play to it.

162. I'm gonna play to the crowd.

163. - Cool. - There's um—

164. - 'Cause you know, I mean, the DOW is down about 30%,

165. you know, and soon as I looked at that I just knew

166. that we know what kinda position you're in and stuff.

167. - I've gotta kiss some major ass to...

168. You know to get it...

169. To get... my portfolio back together.

170. - Totally, totally. - You know?

171. I have... - I hear you, man.

172. Totally.

173. - I canned my stockbroker.

174. - Yeah. - Two weeks ago.

175. - How's the place out in the Hampton's, good?

176. - Hmm, it's a fixer upper.

177. I mean, the pool is shit.

178. It's gotta be replaced. - Spielberg told me,

179. he told me, "I went over to Jeff's,"

180. you know, 'cause he knows that your fucking music

181. is all big bullshit thing.

182. - Right. - And he was just like,

183. "I saw his fucking pool," you know,

184. and he was just, uh...

185. He's funny.

186. You know, he reminds me a lot of you.

187. You are stupid

188. Was that mean or racist, you would say?

189. That's a...

190. One of the new songs.

191. From our upcoming Wilco record.

192. We sound nothing like that

193. on the record.

194. Poetry?

195. Are you saying that my lyrics are poetry?

196. I like you.

197. Here's some more poetry for you.

198. - I wanted to go out and play some shows acoustically.

199. It seemed like a good time to do it.

200. We haven't really toured for awhile,

201. and record's still being made,

202. and took a little break from the record

203. to go play some music and see how things go.

204. - Jeff, you remember Scott?

205. - How are you?

206. Yeah, how you doing?

207. - Great job, man. - Well thanks.

208. Watch out.

209. - Know my friend Sarah?

210. - Yeah, yeah.

211. - Nice to meet you, I work at WEA.

212. - Hey, thank you. - Jeff, looks great.

213. - This is the WEA contigent. - Mitch? Alright.

214. All WEA folks?

215. - Not all.

216. Hoyt, from Last Record Store

217. in Santa Rosa, California.

218. - Pushing Wilco all the way.

219. - All right.

220. - Hey, is the new record more like,

221. is it gonna be more like A.M.,

222. or is it gonna be more like Summerteeth?

223. - Uh, it's really not that much like either one

224. of those records,

225. I don't think, so. - Ooh. Really?

226. - It sounded like it was a trip hop album or something

227. with tape loops and samples.

228. - There are those things,

229. but it's not like a trip hop record.

230. I'm happy with it, and we're almost done with it,

231. so just have to wait another month or so.

232. Month or two months.

233. - And you guys are gonna tour on that straight away?

234. - Maybe, I don't know.

235. Well, hopefully it'll come out in July.

236. It's, um...

237. It's got a lot of the drums and holes,

238. and holes in the songs.

239. - So you're like,

240. is Courtney Love in them?

241. - No. - No.

242. - Sorry.

243. - Open spaces between what's supposed to be

244. the music part.

245. I don't know.

246. I'm gone.

247. - Yeah, who are you?

248. - Uh, it's Jeff.

249. - Cool?

250. - Yeah, seems fine. - Great, that's exactly

251. the mix you'll have out there.

252. - And then maybe...

253. It's not bad, I don't know, you know.

254. It's...

255. - Sure.

256. - Yeah.

257. - It's only a single.

258. - It's the first time where he does

259. - So yeah.

260. Yeah, the first one is the double one.

261. - Okay.

262. - Doug, I think he's gonna stay away from—

263. - What's that?

264. Uh, I guess,

265. next four or five days.

266. Yeah, we're mixing.

267. I'm not at the loft.

268. I'm at the studio.

269. Tony's here.

270. All right.

271. All right.

272. Well, I'll call you later.

273. Pajama day?

274. - This is like,

275. this is the record that needs to

276. take the band to another level.

277. If that didn't happen,

278. it would be a tragic, sort of missed opportunity,

279. and that it would damage the band.

280. - I think every record I've ever made,

281. somebody has said, this is the big one.

282. You guys are gonna be huge,

283. and when I saw the reality of the situation,

284. I felt a little dumb for believing it.

285. - We do have a new A&R guy, Neil.

286. He's really younger and cooler than our last guy,

287. so who knows.

288. Maybe he'll come in and say something really cool,

289. you know?

290. Maybe he'll be great.

291. - I think this sounds great.

292. - Yeah, it's just a different song...

293. Do you wanna hear the new one again?

294. - Can you guys tell me what it is

295. about the drums sounds on this

296. that's not happening?

297. You said you can't get a good snare sound?

298. - We can't brighten them up.

299. - I think that's what's kinda cool about it.

300. They're murky sounding, you know?

301. - This is all you can get out of them.

302. - I think it's great.

303. - If the overall song feels good to you,

304. you're gonna fall in love with the little parts of it

305. that are fucked up.

306. To sum up what I'm thinking,

307. you can't change one piece of the puzzle.

308. - Right.

309. - I don't think well-defined bright drums

310. with presence and definition would serve

311. the feel of that song.

312. - You know, it's a $150 an hour argument,

313. but that's okay.

314. - Whatever they lack, I'd say are actually a virtue

315. in this cut.

316. - If we go with this new one, there is more redoing than

317. Jeff thought before he left, for instance.

318. What is coming up right now is exactly what came up

319. when I first started talking to Jeff about it which was,

320. I think this does create a domino effect.

321. - Did anyone have any problem with this song

322. until last night when you started to

323. try to EQ the snare? - Yes, absolutely. Always.

324. Always since day one.

325. - Maybe we should mix stuff that we know is done.

326. - There is no fucking pressure, man.

327. This is day two in the studio

328. for this record. - Three.

329. - Three, okay.

330. - That's still all the pressure.

331. I just know if we mix both of these, we're gonna go,

332. "Neither one's it."

333. I just know it.

334. - I think it'd be great if we just mixed

335. and leave all tracking for the loft.

336. Honestly.

337. - Jeff's on his way down.

338. - Oh, alert the media.

339. Has he been,

340. was he alerted to the situation?

341. - No, he just called for a status report.

342. - Oh, and you said status not good?

343. - We had a little bit of a work stoppage.

344. A grinding, you know, grinding to a halt.

345. Like, well hold on,

346. "What exactly is the...

347. "how are we supposed to do this?"

348. We're like, really readjusting to how things are gonna work

349. when we're in a different environment

350. from our luxurious

351. little dream world.

352. We're spending $1,000 a day to be here.

353. Anytime we get stumped from here on out,

354. we should just move on.

355. - That's what we're deciding. - Yeah.

356. - Yeah, I think we've all kind of decided that.

357. I think, like, I don't wanna mix them both.

358. At the same time, I don't wanna get too hung up on this.

359. It's an important decision.

360. Oops, we happened to make it the day we were here.

361. Or not make it, you know, whatever, let's move on.

362. You know?

363. We spent a $1,000 in stupider ways in this band.

364. Like all that blow in Amsterdam, that was...

365. - Oh, I must've missed out on that.

366. - There's more pressure on Jeff,

367. you know, externally and self-imposed.

368. I think,

369. he is aware that...

370. the success...

371. or failure,

372. artistically, primarily,

373. of the record, reflects mostly on him.

374. - Cut, then the real mix of Heavy Metal Drummer.

375. - All right, why couldn't we do that

376. when we were mixing Heavy Metal Drummer?

377. - Well, why not do it now?

378. - Because we gotta go offline, unmute everything

379. to find out what track that thing's on.

380. - Can't you just look and see what track it comes up on?

381. - Yeah, but I don't know if it's just one track or two—

382. - Okay, I— - Or what part of the kit

383. it is.

384. - How would we do it,

385. how would we overlap it mixing it separately?

386. Just out of curiosity. - Well, we just say

387. the orchestra at the top of Heavy Metal Drummer

388. is there. - Mmhmm.

389. It wouldn't have to be a mastering thing?

390. - Well, no 'cause the orchestra is in Heavy Metal Drummer

391. at the top of Heavy Metal Drummer.

392. - Okay. - But, it seems,

393. that seems backwards to me.

394. Why not mix it up to the cut point

395. instead of trying to mix the other one

396. from a new starting point?

397. Why not mix it to the edit?

398. You know what I mean?

399. Instead of making a new edit

400. for when we mix Heavy Metal Drummer?

401. - All right, to me

402. it's the exact same thing.

403. You mix one up to here or you start the other mix here.

404. Mix, start.

405. - Right there. - All right.

406. I didn't know that you wanted it to sound

407. exactly like it does here.

408. I thought you wanted it to be the noise

409. going over whatever was really on Heavy Metal Drummer there.

410. See what I'm saying?

411. - I don't want the orchestra to go into Heavy Metal Drummer.

412. It cuts right there.

413. - Right, and I...

414. Okay, okay, let me try to explain myself.

415. I didn't know that you—

416. - This is taking a lot longer than doing one mute.

417. - I know, but can I explain myself, please?

418. I didn't know until now that you wanted it to start

419. with a little kit, big kit.

420. - Well, we can do it both ways, I mean—

421. - No, I don't give a shit.

422. You misunderstood what I was saying.

423. I assumed, apparently wrong,

424. that it was noise until Heavy Metal Drummer started,

425. but now I understand that it's orchestra until a subset

426. of Heavy Metal Drummer starts, then two measures later,

427. Heavy Metal Drummer really starts, right?

428. - Sure. - Okay, I didn't know that.

429. I thought we were just saying,

430. "Hey, that would be cool if the noise went right up

431. "to Heavy Metal Drummer."

432. Does that make sense?

433. - Whatever. Yeah, I don't know,

434. I don't know what the problem is.

435. I don't.

436. - I just want you to understand me,

437. like understand why I was thinking—

438. - Why's it so important?

439. I don't have to understand you all the time.

440. Like, it's okay.

441. I don't... we found it, and we can do it.

442. - Okay, it seems to me like you're making a big deal

443. out of not wanting to...

444. - Not wanting to?

445. Okay, I've just been sitting here trying to—

446. - I'm just saying— - I've been listening

447. to you explain yourself.

448. - And do you understand it.

449. - Sure, I understand it.

450. - Okay, why couldn't you just say,

451. "I understand what you're saying."

452. - I did.

453. - So it's gonna be a drum group.

454. - Two seconds ago you said, "Why is it so important

455. "that I understand you?"

456. - Well, because it doesn't seem like

457. you were gonna let me understand you.

458. - Is it,

459. I'm honestly, I thought that was an idea.

460. Jeff, I don't wanna be understood about the concept,

461. I want you to understand what the misunderstanding was.

462. - I think I'm gonna throw up.

463. - Is it the medication?

464. - No, I just throw up all the time

465. when I have migraines.

466. When I was a kid, I threw up...

467. I used to throw up like 30 times in a night

468. and get put in the hospital for dehydration.

469. Ah, that feels better.

470. You're right, it's six of one half dozen of another.

471. I'm sorry. - Damn, I guess

472. I wasn't explaining myself.

473. See we have to,

474. now we have to do all our outro mutes on everything else.

475. - Why? Because you cut it? - Because we...

476. Well, 'cause we have a bunch of other things open

477. still. - But won't it,

478. it just cuts right there?

479. - No, but up to there.

480. You know what I mean? - Oh, right.

481. - Up to there.

482. - Well, we would've had to do that anyway.

483. - Yeah, some of that we would've, yeah.

484. But I was, yeah.

485. I was just thinking we'd just start

486. Heavy Metal Drummer that way,

487. was what I was thinking, you know?

488. I'm cool, I'm totally cool, all right?

489. It's over.

490. - Right now, um,

491. Reprise Records is in a pretty serious state of flux

492. which I'm a bit nervous about.

493. You know? I mean, I'm not worried

494. about the record not coming out.

495. - No, no, no. The record will come out,

496. but you don't know whether we're gonna be getting

497. the same sort of enthusiasm out of whoever

498. the replacement person is.

499. - Right. - It's just mystery.

500. - If we do it,

501. let's do... - What about Must be High

502. or Casino Queen?

503. - Nah.

504. - I'm just thinking in terms of rockers, man.

505. - Yeah.

506. - If we got easy rockers,

507. we should probably...

508. - I don't wanna do that anymore.

509. - Should I write any of those three?

510. - You don't wanna rock?

511. - What did you say?

512. - No, I don't wanna just fall back

513. on a bunch of easy rockers.

514. - No, no.

515. I'm just thinking with four days to practice

516. and four shows.

517. - One, two,

518. one, two, three, four.

519. - I'd go either way.

520. - When this record ended up being finished,

521. it actually felt fresher to me

522. than it had felt for months after we did a bulk

523. of the recording, you know, over a year

524. or so, and somewhere towards the end of that year,

525. it got to be kind of nit-picking and going back

526. and re-tracking songs and knowing exactly

527. what we were going for,

528. less exploratory, and,

529. and that was starting to get kinda rough

530. by the time we went to CRC to mix.

531. - We got bogged down in certain things like redoing drums.

532. - Right. - You know, certain calls

533. that were good that helped us later on,

534. but for whatever reason, it just bogged down.

535. - Doing the record, the final mixes, at Soma

536. and hearing them through Jim O'Rourke's ears,

537. actually hearing it with someone who was coming at it

538. with some fresh perspective,

539. and being able to collaborate on the final mixes,

540. kinda like, well, we're kinda throwing everything

541. out the window,

542. but we're also kinda getting back

543. to what the original thing was.

544. - When it went to Jim with completely fresh ears,

545. he heard them a little differently,

546. and right away, as soon as we heard how he was mixing

547. I'm Trying to Break Your Heart, the first thing he mixed,

548. then it was like,

549. "Oh, this really works." - That's why bands

550. don't mix records.

551. - I mean, definitely it was like a,

552. it was a final stage of collaboration.

553. Like mixing the record,

554. that's what I always felt like mixing should be,

555. like it should be the last stage of inspiration.

556. I think we've tried to make it powerful

557. like with two guitars.

558. - Can you beef up your tone

559. a little then or something? - Yeah, yeah.

560. - Okay, okay. - It's just so steady now.

561. - I thought it was feeling great, man.

562. God, I thought it felt great.

563. - No, I mean we can try the two guitars again

564. if it feels too weak,

565. I just think that we tried the two...

566. I think the two guitar things might be obsolete, you know?

567. - Uh...

568. I'm not sure what that means, but I'll try.

569. No, I'm just, that felt

570. great to me, that's all. - No, I mean...

571. what's that?

572. - That felt great to me, that's all.

573. - No, I— - I just love fucking rocking,

574. you know? That's all.

575. - We, actually, officially delivered the record

576. or sent them the final mixes of the record.

577. - I must've had 50, 60 definite possibilities

578. for magazine features, let alone television appearances

579. which were starting to...

580. Offers were coming in, and I just thought,

581. "Boy, this is gonna be so great," you know?

582. It's all set.

583. I think, the press has always loved Wilco,

584. but now we're gonna take it even to another level.

585. - When we delivered the record, though,

586. we didn't hear from them for like two weeks, you know?

587. So we thought that was probably not a good thing.

588. - I knew that I was sitting on something

589. that people were gonna beat down the door to get.

590. And then the advances didn't get made.

591. So June is rolling along, and I'm going,

592. "Well, we're losing time, we're losing people to deadlines.

593. "They're not gonna be able to cover this record

594. "if we don't hurry up,"

595. and then about the third week in June,

596. I'd heard there's a problem.

597. - Next thing I heard was

598. that...

599. They asked us to change the record.

600. I don't know what they wanted us to change, and

601. Tony told me that, that was their response,

602. and I told Tony that we weren't interested

603. in changing the record.

604. - Their A&R representative was Mio Vukovic,

605. and what I'd heard,

606. like I said I'd never talked to Wilco

607. about the way this chain happened,

608. but what I heard from my side was that

609. Mio had some ideas about changes to the record,

610. or additional recording, or mixing, or things like that,

611. and the band had felt like,

612. "That's the record. We're finished."

613. You know, we're not really in the mind to make changes,

614. and it's sort of a, "Take it or leave it,"

615. and I think it went up to Mio's boss David Kahn,

616. the head of A&R for Warners and Reprise,

617. felt like Mio was right and that changes did need to be made

618. and if the band wasn't interested in making them,

619. then they should probably be on another label.

620. - Next thing I heard was that they wanted to know

621. if we wanted to leave.

622. - Well I just think that we've been jerked

623. around so many times,

624. and that this is the ultimate jerking around.

625. You know, this like,

626. "We're gonna drop you," shit or whatever it is.

627. Or, "You can get out of the deal."

628. Either way you wanna look at it,

629. it's still majorly being jerked around and,

630. you know, why should I think that things are gonna change?

631. - Actually when Tony first told me

632. that this was a possibility,

633. I have to be completely honest,

634. it hurt my feelings.

635. It's like a feeling of rejection.

636. - It's gotta be more than some sort of promise of,

637. "We love you, and we're gonna take care of you."

638. Do you know what I mean?

639. Because we've heard all that before,

640. and I just think that the wound from this episode

641. of making this record, delivering the record,

642. and getting basically nothing but headaches in return

643. is pretty deep and gonna be pretty tough to heal.

644. And you're not just dealing,

645. I'm not the only person you gotta make feel better.

646. - We never got too specific

647. about what exactly

648. made them hate it.

649. - Okay, but I just want you to understand one thing.

650. This is really important.

651. Right now, I believe that the best thing for the band,

652. for the band, the present and future of the band,

653. is to be away from Reprise Records.

654. - It was at a weird time in Reprise's inner circle

655. because Howie Klein, who had been president

656. of Reprise for a long time,

657. since Reprise was reactivated,

658. he'd also been at Sire when Uncle Tupelo was on Sire,

659. and a big fan of the band had just left the label.

660. In fact I think the day that the band turned in the record,

661. the end of June, right around then,

662. that was his last day.

663. - A day or two after I retired, I got a phone call

664. from one of Wilco's many, many, many, many fans

665. at Warner Brothers.

666. That was the first of many phone calls I got

667. telling me that Wilco was dropped.

668. - I would guess that if I was an executive

669. at a record company, high up executive.

670. I don't mean the people working in the trenches,

671. but I mean the guys with, you know,

672. the gold plated cell phones, you know.

673. If I was up there and I listened to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot,

674. I probably wouldn't get it.

675. Why don't I get it?

676. Because it doesn't tell me exactly who it's for,

677. it doesn't tell me exactly what it's about,

678. and it doesn't tell me exactly how much it will sell.

679. - You know what, from what I gather,

680. I think that they didn't think there was a single

681. to work on.

682. - There's pretty stuff in there,

683. there's hard stuff in there,

684. there's mystery in there, there's really sweet

685. tunes, and there's, you know, an abrasion in there as well.

686. But it's all there, and

687. you really have to kinda sit with it.

688. You have to allow yourself the time

689. to get something out of it.

690. - There's no chance that Wilco would've ever been dropped

691. when I was president of Reprise Records.

692. - We're now in a,

693. a culture, not just a business,

694. but a culture in which we expect everything to happen

695. like that, you know?

696. You have people outside standing around talking

697. on cell phones, you know.

698. The gist of the conversation is,

699. "I'll be there in five minutes."

700. Who gives a fuck?

701. Just be there in five minutes,

702. don't talk about it, you know?

703. People are just so impatient, and

704. as a result, you know,

705. we're looking at things

706. in ways like, "Well, how much time

707. "do I have to devote to this?"

708. And it's really sad because, you know,

709. music, art, literature, poetry,

710. even great technological inventions.

711. They're not meant to be done and done with that quickly.

712. - It was like kinda just a shock to be slapped

713. in the face with, um...

714. This calculated world

715. of international, multi-national

716. whatever incorporation.

717. - I see a band here that is really ambitious artistically.

718. It's not a VH1 Behind the Music story.

719. It's not a drugs, groupies, celebrity kind of story at all.

720. This band's story is the music.

721. Twenty years from now, they're probably gonna get

722. more their due than they are now.

723. I don't think they're a band that fits in

724. with a lot of what music gets played on the radio.

725. The appreciation for its records is gonna increase

726. as time goes on.

727. - In the making of this record,

728. I felt like I got no support, zero.

729. Emotional,

730. financial,

731. whatever.

732. Then at some point in the process,

733. you start asking yourself,

734. "What are they doing?"

735. We don't need the money.

736. The band can go out and play gigs and make the money

737. to pay for the record.

738. They're not getting the band on the radio.

739. You know, it's really,

740. at this point to me,

741. their value's really, really questionable to us.

742. Thanks a lot.

743. Goodnight.

744. - Good to see you brother.

745. Aww.

746. - Whoa, whoa, whoa.

747. Wait, wait, wait.

748. - They won't let you just do it yourselves.

749. - Horde it, pig.

750. - Stealing the band's pizza.

751. Aw, got busted.

752. Sorry dude.

753. Is it cool, is it cool? - Does anybody have a pen?

754. - Yeah.

755. - I don't have nothing for you to sign.

756. - Someone sign your ass.

757. I was kidding.

758. - Yeah, I can do that. - You can sign my boobs.

759. Wanna sign my boobs or not?

760. - Um, actually, would I?

761. I don't know.

762. Someone in our band did that once.

763. - You can sign my ass 'cause I have

764. nothing else to sign. - Really?

765. - If you sign her ass, you have to sign my ass.

766. - Oh, my god. - And if you sign her ass,

767. you have to sign my ass.

768. - You can sign my chest. - No, you sign her ass...

769. - That's what Jimmy,

770. oh we saw Jimmy in the— - Are we going to

771. lighting stage?

772. Sound check?

773. - The straight jackets on the elevator last night.

774. Remember the guy who did—

775. - Oh, oh my God. - Sat in from Jimmy Lester?

776. What?

777. - I'm sorry. I'm sorry. - Go ahead.

778. - I met Bob from Sesame Street yesterday, last night.

779. Bob? - Oh.

780. - Do you know who Bob,

781. does anybody know who Bob is?

782. - Yeah. - I don't remember that.

783. - How'd you meet him?

784. - He was in our hotel.

785. He's doing a kid's show right now as we speak.

786. - Oh, man. - He's like,

787. "Yeah, I got, Big Bird's coming in tomorrow."

788. - There's Jay right now as we speak.

789. - So also, although it's already been going,

790. but JP asked if we could steer clear of the stage

791. for a little while.

792. - Until sound check is over?

793. - Until Jay gets done.

794. - Has Jay been here since like six in the morning?

795. - Two, hey, hey.

796. Hey, excuse me.

797. - Gentlemen, we have about 35 minutes to do all of this.

798. Target.

799. Uh, yeah, we're going Glenn,

800. we're gonna go Jay Bennett, entire keyboard world,

801. and Jay Bennett electric rig, keep him there.

802. After Jay, we'll do Johnny real quick, Mr. Tweedy,

803. let Leroy get his world sussed out.

804. We're only gonna have time to do about two songs.

805. - Okay.

806. - Check, hey, hey, hey.

807. - Yeah, the delay's not working.

808. - No, Tom's introducing me.

809. - Oh, okay. - And then I'll go to you.

810. - Okay. - Okay.

811. When is the new album actually available

812. for people to go out and buy?

813. - That's a good question.

814. - Good afternoon, good evening

815. and happy Independence Day, everyone.

816. Please welcome one of America's most exciting

817. and innovative bands,

818. Wilco!

819. Show some gratitude!

820. - Well, let's talk about Jay.

821. - All right, I probably won't have much to say.

822. - Okay. - Just warning you.

823. - Okay, it's my understanding from what I heard

824. in the grapevine that,

825. that was sort of an amicable separation, and, um...

826. And I don't know that this is true,

827. but the hearsay is sort of that he didn't feel

828. that he had as much a role in the songwriting

829. as he wanted to have, or...

830. - I think that there's some truth to that,

831. and I think there's an effort made for it to be amicable.

832. - Since Jeff's solo tour and Glenn joining the band,

833. some dynamics in the band had altered

834. in many different ways.

835. - I think Jay's contribution to the band over time,

836. and our collaboration, was important

837. and was valued in the band.

838. As for the circumstances surrounding him leaving,

839. I really think that that's up to Jay to define,

840. and as far as, uh,

841. my, uh, feelings about it,

842. I couldn't be happier.

843. - Jeff was convinced that he really needed

844. to tell Jay directly, and he needed to be

845. the guy to do it.

846. - We sat down.

847. He said, "I don't think I can make music

848. "with you anymore,"

849. and I said, Why?"

850. And, uh...

851. I'm not sure I ever got an answer that made any sense.

852. - Jay wore out his welcome

853. in a lot of ways.

854. - It's hard to be working with somebody,

855. uh,

856. that needs more than you can give him,

857. and, you know, I'm more interested in playing music

858. with people that I can share with

859. than give things to.

860. - Jeff was threatened by me.

861. It's clear.

862. By the attention I was beginning to get, um...

863. Uh...

864. He wanted the band back, that's simple.

865. That's the simple answer, you know.

866. Jeff went into this big long analogy

867. about how a circle needs a center, you know?

868. Well, he was gonna be the center, right?

869. I wasn't gonna be the center.

870. - It's hard for me to talk about.

871. Um, I mean, I've known Jay for 16 years,

872. 17 years?

873. And,

874. our friendship had, uh...

875. Run its course.

876. - There's a lot of power related issues in Wilco,

877. and people are,

878. they don't wanna lost their gig, man.

879. And so they don't wanna step outside of their little, uh...

880. Scripted role 'cause if they do, this is what happens.

881. - I think we all knew everyone would be happier

882. in the end, and I think Jay would totally agree with that.

883. - It did not come as a total shock to me to be asked

884. to leave Wilco.

885. It had been in the back of my mind.

886. In fact, I'd talked to Leroy about this extensively,

887. that to quote myself,

888. "My days in Wilco are numbered."

889. I had thought very, very, seriously

890. about leaving the band.

891. I just happened to be beaten to the punch.

892. - When you're Jay Bennett or whomever and you leave the band

893. you have to kind of start over.

894. You're going back to playing for 35 people or 100 people

895. or whatever from sold-out theaters.

896. - They delivered a great record,

897. and I think it's the record company that,

898. for whatever reason,

899. can't handle that type of great record, and so fantastic

900. let's go do something else.

901. - I don't know how to make something other than

902. the record we made, and

903. I think to...

904. Entertain any of their half-ass,

905. fearful,

906. frightened

907. bullshit would be to compromise

908. something that is a big part of my soul.

909. You know?

910. Like it's a part of my heart.

911. And I don't have any interest in doing that anymore.

912. - I think it's a really, really, really strong record.

913. I think it's a statement,

914. I think it's the right record for them to make now

915. in their career,

916. and I think there are dozens of labels

917. that would be ecstatic to have it and who,

918. if you delivered this record,

919. would call you up and be excited about it.

920. That's all. That's what I'm tired of, is no enthusiasm.

921. Why is Wilco dropped

922. 24 hours after they deliver

923. a record like Yankee Hotel Foxtrot?

924. Um...

925. I mean, we've contemplated that question

926. at great length over the summer,

927. and in the end, I think Tony and I both just sort of

928. put our hands up and said,

929. "Well, I guess we're glad that it just happened,

930. "and we won't try to over-intellectualize it any further,"

931. but I really think looking back on it,

932. it's because of marketing,

933. and it's because you have an artist like Jeff Tweedy

934. who's put out, you know, four or five records in a row

935. with a record company,

936. and they haven't been able to bring sales up to a level

937. where it's really significantly affecting

938. their bottom line.

939. They, I guess, stopped thinking about it

940. from a pure artistic level, and just say,

941. "We don't make money on this guy,"

942. and then he delivers a record which, for whatever reasons,

943. they evaluate as being difficult to

944. raise to the next level of public appeal.

945. So they say, "Well, okay, we're not going to,"

946. I guess to use a phrase, "Throw good money after bad.

947. "We've spent $200,000 recording this record,

948. "but it's gonna cost us another $300,000

949. "or whatever to launch a marketing campaign for it,

950. "and we just don't think we're gonna make our money back."

951. So, they drop the artist.

952. This of course creates a situation for us

953. where we have a finished record, and we wanna put it out.

954. - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has actually turned into

955. a kind of metaphor.

956. It's now a measure of what record companies,

957. or not even so much record companies,

958. but the corporations that own record companies,

959. are willing to put up with.

960. - Ultimately, what it came down to

961. was they had told Jeff Tweedy,

962. "We don't like your album, we don't wanna release it."

963. - In the end, you know, it doesn't really matter

964. who puts the record out.

965. Eventually, either in the near future

966. or in the way far distant future, someone's gonna get it.

967. As long as music is available,

968. someone will hear it.

969. - The record label must have found it to be something

970. of a public relations problem

971. because of all of the,

972. the press really latched on to the situation

973. as something of a...

974. Using Jeff something as a poster boy as to what

975. problems were going on in a lot of record companies

976. and in particular Warner Brothers

977. with their artist rosters,

978. and they didn't want it to blow up any further than it did,

979. so they, um,

980. after a certain amount of

981. anxiety-ridden conversations,

982. said, "We think the right thing to do is

983. "let you take your record somewhere else,

984. "wherever you like."

985. - Every time we put out a record,

986. the length of time

987. that a record company's willing to actually even humor you

988. about working on your record has gotten shorter.

989. - Music is not limited to what happens

990. in a business quarter, and...

991. You know,

992. this

993. is a record, okay?

994. This is something that probably someone will buy,

995. they'll pay 15, 16 whatever bucks for it,

996. and that's cool but,

997. what's encoded somewhere in the bottom of this thing,

998. this dopey little disk, you know,

999. that's what matters.

1000. This, the artifact, the actual object does not.

1001. What's encoded in here, if it's any good,

1002. you'll hear it.

1003. And you'll either get it, or you won't.

1004. And,

1005. just as,

1006. as a writer,

1007. as a fan, as a guy who just listens to music a lot,

1008. if you don't get it, I just think that's kinda too bad.

1009. - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has been finished now

1010. for about six months.

1011. The band have done a little bit of touring.

1012. Word got out that the band were out of their deal,

1013. and we started getting a lot of calls,

1014. and basically we started talking to people.

1015. I think we were dealing with

1016. about 25 or 30 labels initially,

1017. and then as time passed,

1018. we have been whittling the list down,

1019. and we're now talking to,

1020. five or so,

1021. and hope to have that resolved in the next week or two.

1022. - I don't have any money.

1023. - Don't worry.

1024. Oh, I only have six dollars.

1025. You want something to eat, Sammy?

1026. - Yes.

1027. I want something to eat.

1028. - What do you want?

1029. - Want soda!

1030. - Soda? Honey, I don't have enough money.

1031. - I'll go get some money.

1032. - Never in my wildest,

1033. most optimistic moment

1034. did I think that we'd be sitting here

1035. in the position we're in right now

1036. which is with a finished record

1037. that

1038. is ours to take wherever we want.

1039. You could certainly say that they fucked up

1040. by letting the band go and walk away with the record.

1041. It's really an opportunity that maybe comes along

1042. once in a career.

1043. - The claw machine ripped him off.

1044. No, it...

1045. It went by itself.

1046. - Tony smell Sam's butt.

1047. - No, thanks.

1048. - I need to know if he needs a diaper.

1049. - I think he does.

1050. - I was surprised at the number of record companies

1051. that were willing to pay a large amount of money

1052. to be sort of in the Wilco picture.

1053. - Recognize it?

1054. - Was is it?

1055. - Guess, it's one of your songs.

1056. - It's one of my songs?

1057. I'm Trying To Break Your Heart?

1058. - No. - Uh, I Need A Kamera?

1059. - No. - Dreamer In My Dreams?

1060. - No.

1061. - No?

1062. Casino Queen? - Uh, uh.

1063. - California Stars? - No.

1064. - Tell me.

1065. - It's something with a drum in it.

1066. - Heavy Metal Drummer.

1067. - Yes.

1068. - How's that go?

1069. - The record had started to leak a little bit

1070. from labels and so on,

1071. and copies were starting to float around and,

1072. initially we tried to

1073. slow it down.

1074. We knew we couldn't stop it,

1075. and then at some point, I think we just decided,

1076. "You know what? It's out there.

1077. "Let's embrace it and make it available

1078. "through our website if people wanna hear it."

1079. - For the most part, a lot of people were really aware

1080. of the new songs to the point where I think a lot of people

1081. in the front row, at least, knew all the words.

1082. - After,

1083. months of

1084. discussions and ruminations,

1085. we have decided to sign,

1086. the band's gonna sing to Nonesuch Records.

1087. We've agreed to all the major terms, so

1088. the record will come out on Nonesuch in April.

1089. I do find it ironic

1090. and a little humorous

1091. that Time Warner is the parent company

1092. of both of these labels,

1093. Reprise and Nonesuch.

1094. - Are you Jeff? - Yeah.

1095. - Nice to meet you. - You, too.

1096. - One way to put the reason for picking Nonesuch

1097. is that they were the best combination

1098. of a business deal and a creative home.

1099. - In hearing the record, in the first 30 seconds,

1100. I felt that there was something going on

1101. with this record that I hadn't heard

1102. in a Wilco record before, and that was,

1103. it sounded brave to me.

1104. It may have been the same 30 seconds that convinced Reprise

1105. that they didn't wanna put out the record.

1106. - Okay, you ready to start signing things?

1107. - Mmhmm.

1108. Yeah, looks good.

1109. - Hold on.

1110. - One more, yup.

1111. This is to get paid.

1112. - Definitely sign that one.

1113. - Okay, and I sign here.

1114. - You sign there.

1115. And you're back in the fire.

1116. - Thanks.

1117. - It's a deal.

1118. - We're about two months away

1119. from the record coming out.

1120. Advances are here.

1121. Jeff is in town doing press, he goes to Europe next week

1122. to do press, it all begins now.

1123. - What are we, almost eight or nine months

1124. since the record was originally planned to come out

1125. on another label?

1126. It's been a long road, but it's the beginning.

1127. - We couldn't be more excited

1128. about the longterm prospects of being able

1129. to work with this band.

1130. - It's a long road to here, but you know,

1131. it's a new chapter now, and we're,

1132. couldn't be more optimistic.

1133. Choo-Choo Charlie had a plenty good band

1134. I made a big mistake

1135. - That's the coup,

1136. that's like the coup of all time for us.

1137. To basically get, you know,

1138. one of the biggest entertainment corporations in the world

1139. to release us from a contract, essentially scot-free

1140. with a record that they had already paid for

1141. and then sell it back to them for three times the money.

1142. They disliked the record so much that they paid

1143. for it twice.

1144. - Hold your breath,

1145. make a wish, count to three.