1. Go down to this basement.
Copy !req
2. Looks like it's snowed down there.
Copy !req
3. There's so much dust.
Copy !req
4. Uh, watch this wall, peeling blow.
Copy !req
5. I like how you keep the microwave
on the stairs That's safe.
Copy !req
6. No, this is disgusting.
Copy !req
7. We haven't been
down here in a while.
Copy !req
8. The Postal collection.
Copy !req
9. Take a look at this stuff.
Copy !req
10. Excellent, I've been looking
for this for years.
Copy !req
11. Well, it's right here.
Copy !req
12. It's been right under your feet
the whole time.
Copy !req
13. This was the,
this is another one of their real posters.
Copy !req
14. It was like the DVD cover.
Then we have our own posters
Copy !req
15. over here, too, that we made.
Copy !req
16. Nice. Gary, he's no longer with us.
Vern is no longer with us.
Copy !req
17. Small people shouldn't
work with Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
18. If I was a midget,
I don't know if I'd want to work with us,
Copy !req
19. to tell you the truth.
Copy !req
20. Man, foof!
Little fucking dusty in here.
Copy !req
21. All right.
Copy !req
22. - How we doing?
Copy !req
23. Now this…
Copy !req
24. This is a set of balls.
Copy !req
25. Hey, everybody. I'm Vince Desi
from Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
26. And it's time to go postal.
Copy !req
27. - Come on in.
Copy !req
28. A new video game on the market
Copy !req
29. that is upsetting postal workers.
Copy !req
30. It is called Postal,
Copy !req
31. and the object of the game
isn't delivering mail.
Copy !req
32. "Going postal" means
shooting everyone in sight.
Copy !req
33. The game maker says it's all in good fun.
Copy !req
34. But the US Postmaster General
isn't laughing.
Copy !req
35. He wrote a letter
to the Arizona makers of the game
Copy !req
36. saying Postal is an unfair portrayal
of postal employees
Copy !req
37. and there's nothing funny about it.
Copy !req
38. "Until someone boxes up syphilis
Copy !req
39. and tries to sell it at retail,
Postal 2 is the worst product
Copy !req
40. ever foisted upon consumers."
Copy !req
41. You read the guy's review.
He probably didn't even play the game.
Copy !req
42. There was a video game called Postal.
Copy !req
43. In the video game,
you just ran around shooting people.
Copy !req
44. There's nothing funny
about breast cancer and brain tumors.
Copy !req
45. We don't make games of those,
and we shouldn't make games
Copy !req
46. of people being murdered senselessly.
Copy !req
47. This is a fun product.
It's filled with humor. Adult humor.
Copy !req
48. Real holes meant to be
bullet holes right in it—
Copy !req
49. We're being criticized unfairly.
Copy !req
50. And then, the whole industry
turned its back against us anyway,
Copy !req
51. because they needed a scapegoat.
Copy !req
52. One kid who absorbs this
Copy !req
53. and even going out,
and doing some of these things—
Copy !req
54. A game is a game.
It has nothing to do with real life.
Copy !req
55. Something about being able to,
uh, you know, take your friend,
Copy !req
56. - blow his head off.
- It's mass mayhem.
Copy !req
57. I get under a lot of stress
at work and it's kind of nice
Copy !req
58. to go home and just get it out that way.
Copy !req
59. Dozens of researchers
have shown that violent video games
Copy !req
60. - pose a public health threat.
It was ten years ago today,
Copy !req
61. almost to the hour, when a gunman
entered Dawson College and opened fire.
Copy !req
62. Buy now, buy now.
…hold a hearing
Copy !req
63. on video game violence
and its impact on kids.
Copy !req
64. Senators Joseph Lieberman
and Herbert Cole chaired the proceedings.
Copy !req
65. Violence and violent images
Copy !req
66. permeate more
and more aspects of our lives.
Copy !req
67. And I think it's time to draw the line.
Copy !req
68. We must stop the glorification
of violence in our society.
Copy !req
69. This includes
the gruesome and grisly video games
Copy !req
70. that are now commonplace.
Copy !req
71. All right. Yeah. Went,
went a little too dark on your game,
Copy !req
72. and you accidentally
made something that people think
Copy !req
73. inspired school shootings. Sure.
Copy !req
74. If I had something to say,
I would say to the city
Copy !req
75. or to the State or to Congress
to eliminate these violent games,
Copy !req
76. 'cause it does cause things
in our, in our children.
Copy !req
77. Well, there is a new game in town
that has US mail carriers,
Copy !req
78. their bosses, friends, and families,
shall we say, "a little ticked off."
Copy !req
79. We kind of accept our status
as the bottom feeder of the industry.
Copy !req
80. I know there are a lot of people
that really wish we would go away,
Copy !req
81. but it's never going to happen.
Copy !req
82. Something is going on
out there with our children.
Copy !req
83. Is it the fact that the average
TV-viewing child has seen
Copy !req
84. 16,000 murders on TV
by the time he's 18 years old?
Copy !req
85. Postal was breaking
the mold for sure.
Copy !req
86. You know, other people
were trying to do that, but, uh, man,
Copy !req
87. they, Postal turned it up to 11.
Copy !req
88. Just the phrase "going postal"
gives all of us a black eye.
Copy !req
89. - It's a real insult to us.
Copy !req
90. We wanted to do a game
where you basically could
Copy !req
91. just go off nonstop
and shoot, shoot, shoot.
Copy !req
92. - I feel it's totally amazing.
Copy !req
93. It's the best video game-based
movie ever made.
Copy !req
94. Oh, my God, that movie fucking sucks.
Copy !req
95. Fuck you do to my game Postal?
Copy !req
96. I don't know what your fucking problem is.
Copy !req
97. Go postal.
- Can we blame violent movies, music,
Copy !req
98. and video games as a reason
on why some kids kill?
Copy !req
99. Joining us once again
from Little Rock, Arkansas,
Copy !req
100. Governor Mike Huckabee.
Copy !req
101. Um, thanks a lot for going postal,
and see you in September.
Copy !req
102. …anything to do with
the post office anyway,
Copy !req
103. so I don't understand
why they would call it that.
Copy !req
104. It is about "going Postal."
Copy !req
105. He says that the name
of the game is insulting to his workers.
Copy !req
106. The game's creator says
it's just in good fun,
Copy !req
107. and the phrase "going postal"
has become a part of modern-day language.
Copy !req
108. My full name
is Vincent James Desiderio Jr.
Copy !req
109. I'm known as Vince Desi
in the video game industry.
Copy !req
110. I'm the CEO and founder
of Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
111. I was born in 1953
Copy !req
112. in Brooklyn Hospital,
in Brooklyn, New York.
Copy !req
113. I was raised in Brooklyn,
Copy !req
114. uh, in a neighborhood
called Bedford-Stuyvesant
Copy !req
115. also known as Bed-Stuy.
Copy !req
116. My mother was, uh, probably
Copy !req
117. the biggest influence in my life
along with my dad.
Copy !req
118. My dad worked very hard.
Copy !req
119. You know, a big treat for me
would be Saturday mornings.
Copy !req
120. He would make breakfast,
pepperoni and eggs,
Copy !req
121. because he worked so hard
Monday to Friday,
Copy !req
122. he'd work overtime as much as he could
to make more money.
Copy !req
123. My father instilled in me
the whole industriousness, hard work.
Copy !req
124. And from my mother,
I got the "fuck you," you know,
Copy !req
125. I-don't-care, no-bullshit attitude
because my mother took shit from nobody.
Copy !req
126. As a youth, I mean,
I was a typical New York street kid.
Copy !req
127. My first real income came from
when I was around three years old,
Copy !req
128. painting clamshells from Coney Island.
Copy !req
129. You know, we had a group
growing up called "The Rods."
Copy !req
130. The Rods were four of us,
and our obsession was basically women.
Copy !req
131. As a teenager in those days, you know,
it was a very different thing than today.
Copy !req
132. Today you, you, you people get,
Copy !req
133. have sex all day long
by the time you're in eighth grade.
Copy !req
134. In my day and age, uh,
being able to feel up a girl,
Copy !req
135. uh, something like that
was a major accomplishment.
Copy !req
136. To go home and jerk off.
Copy !req
137. We were one of the first to wear
suit jackets with our jeans.
Copy !req
138. You know, and Mom would say,
"Where you going?
Copy !req
139. Where you going
with a suit jacket on and jeans?"
Copy !req
140. "Mom, we are trendsetters."
Copy !req
141. I've always been a creative thinker,
somewhat of an artist,
Copy !req
142. and I got involved in
what was called the disco business,
Copy !req
143. and that was a result of me
throwing parties.
Copy !req
144. And people would say to me,
"Oh, my God, you should do this!"
Copy !req
145. So I made a phone call to somebody,
to another club.
Copy !req
146. And so, I got a hold
of a friend of mine and I said,
Copy !req
147. "Look," I said, "this guy
wants to have lunch with me.
Copy !req
148. So you got to go there tomorrow,
have lunch with this guy.
Copy !req
149. You could be me."
Copy !req
150. I said, "And then I'll, you know,
I'll follow up on the business side."
Copy !req
151. We did this business for a year.
Copy !req
152. He, he, he was using my name
Copy !req
153. - and I used his name.
Copy !req
154. First one was on my 25th birthday.
Copy !req
155. And it ended on my 26th birthday.
Copy !req
156. And it was a great experience
in that disco era, '78 to '79.
Copy !req
157. Should I say anything about when…
Copy !req
158. with the drugs?
Copy !req
159. - What am I—
Say whatever you want!
Copy !req
160. I was very surprised
Copy !req
161. and— uh, when he started to do this.
Copy !req
162. And back in, you know,
when we lived in New York,
Copy !req
163. he used to do parties in Manhattan.
Copy !req
164. That's, I guess,
where he started his creativity.
Copy !req
165. You know, mostly him
probably, he never really grew up.
Copy !req
166. You know, we don't want to grow old
and we all have that inside us.
Copy !req
167. He just lets it all out.
Copy !req
168. That's him.
Copy !req
169. After I got out of the disco business,
I was living in Manhattan at the time.
Copy !req
170. I answer an ad in The New York Times
Copy !req
171. on the front page
of the employment section,
Copy !req
172. which is quite comical, and is—
I'll never forget the ad,
Copy !req
173. it said, "Earn big bucks with $50K."
Copy !req
174. - I was like, "Oh, that's for me."
Copy !req
175. So I call up and right away I realize
I'm being interviewed over the phone.
Copy !req
176. I get a scheduled appointment
to go in the next day. I go in.
Copy !req
177. I thought, "It goes great!"
And it's to be a headhunter.
Copy !req
178. A headhunter is basically, you,
you're helping people find jobs,
Copy !req
179. not secretarial,
but this was in the IT industry
Copy !req
180. or what they called back then, MIS,
Management Information Systems.
Copy !req
181. Anyway, I thought I did great.
Copy !req
182. Tuesday comes, I don't get a call.
Copy !req
183. - Wednesday comes, I don't get a call.
Copy !req
184. I'm like, "What the hell's going on here?"
So I take the subway up to the office.
Copy !req
185. The office was near 42nd Street,
near the Ol' Grand Central.
Copy !req
186. And I just go in past the secretary
into the, the main office.
Copy !req
187. I see where the, the guy is
that's running the show.
Copy !req
188. And I just go in and I tell him,
"What's the deal?"
Copy !req
189. And he says, "Look," he goes,
"anybody that's got the, uh, the nerve,
Copy !req
190. the balls to just come in here like that."
Copy !req
191. He goes, "I'm gonna give you a chance."
Copy !req
192. By the end of the first year,
I was one of the top billers.
Copy !req
193. I learned a lot
about computers at that time,
Copy !req
194. because it was all about mainframes,
Copy !req
195. and personal computers
were just coming out.
Copy !req
196. Two and a half years later,
Atari had come to New York City
Copy !req
197. - and wanted to open an office.
…from Atari.
Copy !req
198. I basically staffed
the New York Atari office.
Copy !req
199. A couple of the first people
that they hired were through me,
Copy !req
200. and that's how I started Desi Network.
By placing three people.
Copy !req
201. My very first person was
a young guy named Adam Bellin.
Copy !req
202. Great guy. He's like
a younger brother to me.
Copy !req
203. There's working at cool, casual,
fun video game companies
Copy !req
204. like Atari and Activision,
Copy !req
205. and there's working with Vince.
Copy !req
206. Any stories that particularly
come to mind working with Vince
Copy !req
207. that you feel comfortable sharing?
Copy !req
208. Names should be changed
to protect the innocent probably,
Copy !req
209. but, um, it was fucking crazy.
Copy !req
210. Atari actually hired me
the day of the interview.
Copy !req
211. They already had an office in Manhattan,
Copy !req
212. but this was a new secret office
that most people didn't know about.
Copy !req
213. And they took the 14th floor
of the Clocktower
Copy !req
214. in the Metropolitan Life Building.
Copy !req
215. And I would walk into this marble building
wearing a t-shirt and flip-flops.
Copy !req
216. We had this one floor that was,
like, a bunch of hippies
Copy !req
217. working on video games.
It was a unique floor.
Copy !req
218. People would look at us
in the MetLife building
Copy !req
219. and not know who the fuck we were.
Copy !req
220. And we have 24-hour access,
we'd be there late at night.
Copy !req
221. You know, in the middle
of the night going in.
Copy !req
222. Yeah, it was a crazy, crazy time.
Copy !req
223. And then,
Adam's first project after Atari,
Copy !req
224. because Atari was in business
about another year before they went bust…
Copy !req
225. …was a title called Sorcerer's Apprentice,
Copy !req
226. which was an art utility program
for the Commodore 64.
Copy !req
227. And then I got Adam a job.
He was making a game called Bristles,
Copy !req
228. a kind of a Donkey Kong game,
Copy !req
229. with this character,
which was an early Mario, if you will.
Copy !req
230. But then he was roommates
at college with Riedel,
Copy !req
231. and they got the license
from Warner Brothers
Copy !req
232. for Spy vs. Spy. The series.
Copy !req
233. And that's how we made Spy vs. Spy.
Copy !req
234. It was the first game
that had a dual screen.
Copy !req
235. And then from there,
we went and made the first WWF game
Copy !req
236. with Hulk Hogan, and that was pretty wild.
Copy !req
237. Prime Time Wrestling!
Copy !req
238. And All American Wrestling!
Copy !req
239. That was how I,
I started in the games business,
Copy !req
240. it was no intention.
It just kind of all just…
Copy !req
241. It was all about the right timing.
Copy !req
242. And for me, it made a lot of sense
Copy !req
243. because while working with Atari,
and I was working with the programmers,
Copy !req
244. and back then,
one programmer would make a game.
Copy !req
245. You might have one artist,
you might have two artists.
Copy !req
246. And there was one audio person
for the entire company.
Copy !req
247. And so, I found myself really enjoying it
because I've got a business part of me,
Copy !req
248. a natural business instinct
that now this gave me the opportunity
Copy !req
249. to be the business person
I just naturally enjoyed being.
Copy !req
250. But at the same time,
I'm with creative people,
Copy !req
251. creative people whom are very technical,
Copy !req
252. creative people that are making
music, drawing, making art.
Copy !req
253. So it, it was a beautiful thing.
Copy !req
254. Anybody that may be very young or even,
Copy !req
255. you know, in that college age
that's considering
Copy !req
256. getting into something like this,
Copy !req
257. you know, if you're good,
that's not enough.
Copy !req
258. You gotta want to do it.
Copy !req
259. I guess we just accepted
whatever he did.
Copy !req
260. He was always, I guess, willing
to try something different, be different.
Copy !req
261. That's just the way he was.
Copy !req
262. He was never going to do a normal job.
Copy !req
263. You know,
I mean, he could go talk
Copy !req
264. to the wino down on, uh, the Bowery
Copy !req
265. and yet, talk to the, the chairman
of Chase without missing a beat,
Copy !req
266. - a— and he'd, he'd even…
Copy !req
267. - …eliminate his New York accent.
Copy !req
268. I don't know how he does that,
but he can do it.
Copy !req
269. Throughout the '80s, we continue
to work on a work-for-hire basis,
Copy !req
270. and I was still working as an agent,
still had my headhunting business,
Copy !req
271. and doing a variety
of other creative things.
Copy !req
272. So what happened though is, uh, I was…
Copy !req
273. I kind of felt it was time
to leave New York.
Copy !req
274. I was turning 40.
I was like, "Okay, I'm ready.
Copy !req
275. I've had a great life here, all is good."
Copy !req
276. You know, New York in the '80s,
it, it just was deteriorating.
Copy !req
277. I, I really wasn't enjoying it anymore.
Copy !req
278. I had this fantasy for Arizona
Copy !req
279. since I was, uh,
watching Roy Rogers as a kid.
Copy !req
280. The Roy Rogers Show
starring Roy Rogers, King of the Cowboy,
Copy !req
281. Trigger, his golden palomino!
Copy !req
282. I put together an ad
for programmers and artists,
Copy !req
283. and I ran it in a bunch of cities,
Copy !req
284. and Tucson had a great response.
Copy !req
285. So then, I put together a trip.
Copy !req
286. We went to Albuquerque,
Santa Fe, Phoenix, Tucson
Copy !req
287. with my former partner,
his wife, and two kids.
Copy !req
288. It was a phenomenal trip.
And we just said,
Copy !req
289. "Wow, we like Tucson
of those four places the best."
Copy !req
290. So we said, "Okay, we're gonna do it."
Copy !req
291. Myself and my parents,
we had mixed feelings,
Copy !req
292. you know, having him move so far away,
Copy !req
293. "How often will we get to see him?"
Copy !req
294. But at the same time,
it was something he really wanted to do.
Copy !req
295. It was a dream he wanted to try.
Copy !req
296. And we would never stop him.
We just, I guess, supported him,
Copy !req
297. you know however we can.
Copy !req
298. It was a constant open hand on,
Copy !req
299. "Hey, you guys are new here.
We're happy you're here.
Copy !req
300. What can we do for you?
Welcome to Tucson."
Copy !req
301. In the early '90s,
you have Mortal Kombat,
Copy !req
302. you have Night Trap.
Copy !req
303. Video games were reaching a point
where you could see the violence.
Copy !req
304. So it was no longer just Mario
Copy !req
305. - butt-bouncing on a couple of mushrooms…
Copy !req
306. …and they disappear.
Copy !req
307. What happened is now
that you could actually realize
Copy !req
308. and depict true violence,
Copy !req
309. people started to become
a little more concerned
Copy !req
310. - about what was inside of these games.
Copy !req
311. Postal, in a lot of ways…
Copy !req
312. That was a turning point in video games.
Copy !req
313. It was a maturing point.
Copy !req
314. And people didn't see how firmly
Copy !req
315. Vince Desi plants his tongue in his cheek
when he does this violence.
Copy !req
316. It's all Kill Bill games to him.
Copy !req
317. Going postal. Going postal. Going postal.
Copy !req
318. Going postal.
Copy !req
319. Like the Grinch who stole Christmas,
Copy !req
320. these violent video games threaten to rob
Copy !req
321. this particular holiday season
of a spirit of goodwill.
Copy !req
322. In 1993, Joe Lieberman saw Mortal Kombat,
Copy !req
323. and he was appalled by that,
which led him to look into other things.
Copy !req
324. And he saw a game called Night Trap,
which he never understood.
Copy !req
325. Please, no!
Copy !req
326. I look back and I remember the Atari 2600,
Copy !req
327. and then, you had the arcade games,
Copy !req
328. and while they were violent,
they were pixilated.
Copy !req
329. When you started to see consoles
Copy !req
330. and PCs with the emergence
of the 3D graphic cards and stuff.
Copy !req
331. TurboGrafx-16
is about to knock video games back!
Copy !req
332. When they started putting
more realistic blood
Copy !req
333. and they could do sounds
that weren't just beeps and pops
Copy !req
334. and you could hear screams and voices,
Copy !req
335. I think that's where the people
started to have an issue.
Copy !req
336. That led to the first congressional
hearing on video game violence.
Copy !req
337. What a cynical,
irresponsible way to market a product.
Copy !req
338. The fire on this.
This is a handgun, pure and simple.
Copy !req
339. Mortal Kombat and Night Trap
Copy !req
340. are not the kind of gifts
that responsible parents give.
Copy !req
341. And the thing
that's so funny about that is
Copy !req
342. there they are complaining
about Mortal Kombat and Night Trap
Copy !req
343. completely unaware that on computer games,
Doom had just come out.
Copy !req
344. Joe Lieberman is miscast, he—
Copy !req
345. People just like to say that he wanted
to eliminate violent video games.
Copy !req
346. He was more interested
in making sure that violent video games
Copy !req
347. fell into the right hands.
Copy !req
348. I agreed with that completely, frankly.
Copy !req
349. You know, I, I didn't think
that Doom or Mortal Kombat
Copy !req
350. were games made for six-year-olds.
Copy !req
351. So they asked me if I'd come on board
for the video game report card.
Copy !req
352. I'd like to finish up our presentation
by introducing Steven Kent,
Copy !req
353. a nationally syndicated
columnist who reviews games
Copy !req
354. for newspapers around the country.
Copy !req
355. My job was not to criticize
the video game industry.
Copy !req
356. My job was to propose alternate games
Copy !req
357. that maybe were more appropriate
for the entire family.
Copy !req
358. Many parents who would
gladly watch television or movie
Copy !req
359. with their children
quietly leave the room when their—
Copy !req
360. when their children turn on
a, a video game.
Copy !req
361. It was a tense time.
There was a lot of anger at video games.
Copy !req
362. I haven't seen this advertisement,
Senator Lieberman.
Copy !req
363. - We don't have control—
Well, you, you've got it now.
Copy !req
364. And video games,
you have to remember that the,
Copy !req
365. the generation of people
that were parents at that time
Copy !req
366. weren't necessarily raised
with video games.
Copy !req
367. So you had parents who would
watch cartoons with their kids.
Copy !req
368. But the moment their kid
turned on a video game,
Copy !req
369. they lost interest and left the room.
Copy !req
370. So video games kind of became
this black box for parents.
Copy !req
371. They didn't know
what their kids were playing.
Copy !req
372. They weren't willing, at that point,
Copy !req
373. to go play with them
and learn what the games were about.
Copy !req
374. That, that kind of made
what Joe Lieberman did more important.
Copy !req
375. If you've ever wondered
what kind of minds produce video games,
Copy !req
376. you're looking at 'em.
Copy !req
377. These guys met in New York.
Copy !req
378. We were working
on a Steven Seagal game,
Copy !req
379. and the publisher was, uh,
somewhere up in Silicon Valley.
Copy !req
380. I don't remember exactly where.
Copy !req
381. So I went up there in, uh,
for a meeting and while I was there,
Copy !req
382. I happened to meet Gene Lipkin,
Copy !req
383. who was one
of the original guys from Atari.
Copy !req
384. He'd give good advice, and to his credit,
we were actually here at a barbecue.
Copy !req
385. He was visiting Tucson,
and at the barbecue, we're successful.
Copy !req
386. We're doing well,
we're making games for everybody.
Copy !req
387. And he turns to me and he says,
"You know, this is never gonna, is,
Copy !req
388. you're never gonna make
anything out of this other than a job."
Copy !req
389. He said, "So you've got to choose.
What do you want to do?
Copy !req
390. You can continue hitting singles.
Or do you wanna go for a home run?"
Copy !req
391. And he said, "You, you know,
at some point, you've got to decide.
Copy !req
392. Do you want to have your own property,
your own intellectual property?"
Copy !req
393. That's when it just kind of hit me.
Copy !req
394. RSP employees may be
artists or computer programmers,
Copy !req
395. but they're all members of a team
that may take a year to produce a game.
Copy !req
396. You got to understand that,
Copy !req
397. you know, some of the folks now
were with me for five years,
Copy !req
398. people were getting tired
of making kids' games.
Copy !req
399. - I'm tired of this, Grandpa!
That's too damn bad!
Copy !req
400. So that became the, "You know what?
It's time for us to make our own game."
Copy !req
401. We then created Running With Scissors
as a new company brand,
Copy !req
402. but we then were also supporting it
by making a game for Free Willy under RSP.
Copy !req
403. We were doing a Sesame Street title,
Copy !req
404. so we were basically,
taking the, the revenue from those titles
Copy !req
405. and we were self-funding
the development of the original Postal
Copy !req
406. under the brand
Running With Scissors. RWS.
Copy !req
407. And I did press releases every week
for about eight weeks.
Copy !req
408. And that just created
a whole sense of hysteria and momentum.
Copy !req
409. Once we made the commitment
to start on our own original game,
Copy !req
410. we knew right away,
Copy !req
411. because we had this Robotron
Arcade machine in the office,
Copy !req
412. it's what everybody loved,
we liked fast-paced games
Copy !req
413. and we wanted to stylize it based on that.
Copy !req
414. The whole concept basically
was just a free-roaming game.
Copy !req
415. It was evolving into this,
this mad level of relentless shooting,
Copy !req
416. and at that time, the term "going postal"
had become more and more popular
Copy !req
417. because of the shootings
that started occurring
Copy !req
418. around the country
in different post offices.
Copy !req
419. This number is what we call a zip code.
Copy !req
420. It's very, very important—
Copy !req
421. So the idea was,
"Well, you're going postal,"
Copy !req
422. but for marketing purposes,
I like a single name,
Copy !req
423. so let's call it Postal.
Copy !req
424. Going postal.
- Going postal.
Copy !req
425. It's a new video game. It's called Postal.
Copy !req
426. None of this was
a conscious effort on our part.
Copy !req
427. This all was a natural evolution,
Copy !req
428. which I really think adds
to the whole flavor
Copy !req
429. of the unique creativity, if you will,
Copy !req
430. that made Postal 1 so different
than so many other games at that time.
Copy !req
431. You know what it means to "go postal"?
Copy !req
432. - Really isn't very nice.
Copy !req
433. Oh, no.
Copy !req
434. May I please help the next person in line?
Copy !req
435. A new computer game
has some people very upset.
Copy !req
436. It's called Postal,
Copy !req
437. and the game maker says
it's all in good fun.
Copy !req
438. But others say it's really going too far…
Copy !req
439. So basically, when we were fortunate
to agree to make a deal
Copy !req
440. and have a company called Ripcord
as our publisher, we were ecstatic.
Copy !req
441. Ripcord was really a new brand
for Panasonic Interactive Media,
Copy !req
442. which had been doing educational titles.
Copy !req
443. So they were gonna use Postal
as their flagship title
Copy !req
444. to launch their own entertainment brand
of video games.
Copy !req
445. Everybody had the same intention.
Copy !req
446. "Let's make a great game, let's have fun,
and let's have a big success."
Copy !req
447. It, it was never a conscious thing about,
"How can we fuck this up?"
Copy !req
448. This will be great.
Copy !req
449. Yes, we've seen Doom,
but Doom is really mostly a PC game,
Copy !req
450. and so, we kind of think, we understand
Copy !req
451. the worst of the worst
that could be there.
Copy !req
452. And then, all of a sudden, these two games
Copy !req
453. come out the same year,
within months of each other.
Copy !req
454. Both games were played from the top down,
from the God perspective.
Copy !req
455. You're in the sky
and you're looking down on a city.
Copy !req
456. One of them was
the first Grand Theft Auto.
Copy !req
457. And that game was a big concern
Copy !req
458. because you were actually
running crimes, real crimes.
Copy !req
459. You were blackmailing,
Copy !req
460. you were stealing cars,
you were mugging people.
Copy !req
461. You know, ag— again,
those people were little tiny dots
Copy !req
462. in a maze that vaguely looked like a city.
Copy !req
463. And then there was Postal.
Copy !req
464. One day in the office,
I got wind of the programmers
Copy !req
465. and it's like, "Well, we're trying
to figure out how many characters
Copy !req
466. we could have on the screen
at the same time."
Copy !req
467. And I heard. I said,
"What? You can have how many?
Copy !req
468. Five, ten, 15, maybe 20 characters
on the screen at the same time?"
Copy !req
469. I immediately said to myself,
and I just thought "parade."
Copy !req
470. 'Cause a parade to me was funny,
you know, a marching band.
Copy !req
471. The only thing anybody
ever wanted to talk about with Postal was
Copy !req
472. that you could light
an entire marching band on fire.
Copy !req
473. The idea was,
"How can we have fun with this?"
Copy !req
474. Set a whole bunch of shit on fire at once!
Copy !req
475. And of course, who knew at the time?
Copy !req
476. But that would be the scene
that was written about most,
Copy !req
477. in terms of the crazy game Postal.
Copy !req
478. You'd see them running around on fire and…
Copy !req
479. "Oh, my gosh,
this is the worst thing ever."
Copy !req
480. The object of the game
is to kill everyone you can.
Copy !req
481. Postal makers say Postal players
Copy !req
482. love playing out their aggressions.
Copy !req
483. Needless to say,
everybody loves shooting innocent people.
Copy !req
484. - Wow!
And when you napalm the band,
Copy !req
485. it keeps marching
and catches the whole crowd on fire.
Copy !req
486. Critics are calling it
one of the most violent computer games
Copy !req
487. that they've ever created.
Copy !req
488. Here we are at E3.
Tremendous coverage, tremendous response.
Copy !req
489. And that's when CNN came
to first do an interview.
Copy !req
490. And that wa— that was just off the top.
Copy !req
491. The unmistakable image
of an AK-47 rifle.
Copy !req
492. But the manufacturer, Ripcord Games,
went ahead with the name anyway.
Copy !req
493. It says,
"The streets are awash in blood.
Copy !req
494. Watch victims run around on fire
screaming for help
Copy !req
495. until their charred corpses
fall to the ground.
Copy !req
496. Listen to victims moan and beg for mercy."
Copy !req
497. Now explain to me
what's entertaining about that.
Copy !req
498. Well, I think
I stick to my original point,
Copy !req
499. which is "this is a game."
Copy !req
500. I've always considered the Postal Dude
to be a, a pretty calm guy
Copy !req
501. who was really just defending himself.
Copy !req
502. He just really is somebody
that wants to be left alone,
Copy !req
503. you know, "You do your thing.
I'll do mine. Don't get in my face."
Copy !req
504. Hi there. Would you
like to sign my petition?
Copy !req
505. I was first aware of the Postal series
back in the late '90s.
Copy !req
506. And, uh, as a person
who is in the gaming industry,
Copy !req
507. it was much smaller back then.
Copy !req
508. There were many fewer games
that were coming out at the time,
Copy !req
509. and we thought there were too many then.
Copy !req
510. Postal stood out and,
uh, we all knew about it,
Copy !req
511. we all heard about it,
and we all thought it was, like, crazy
Copy !req
512. and didn't know
how you were gonna, you know,
Copy !req
513. they were gonna get it in,
in GameStop and, and Wal-Mart.
Copy !req
514. I come from the, from the independent
developer community.
Copy !req
515. And so, uh, we're all for each other
and we want to support each other.
Copy !req
516. And everybody in the indie community, uh,
absolutely loved what their—
Copy !req
517. what Running With Scissors was doing
with, with creating Postal.
Copy !req
518. But yeah, Postal was
breaking the mold for sure.
Copy !req
519. But, uh, man, they—
Postal turned it up to 11.
Copy !req
520. Their whole premise is so over the top,
it's so ridiculous.
Copy !req
521. It's, it's obviously a joke,
you know, and it's not also for kids.
Copy !req
522. So, you know…
Copy !req
523. My favorite thing
about playing Postal
Copy !req
524. was not only, like, the violence
and the, and the humor,
Copy !req
525. which was awesome.
I mean, it was very much, like,
Copy !req
526. akin to stuff like South Park
in, in many ways.
Copy !req
527. But what I, what I loved about it,
was the fact that it felt
Copy !req
528. like we were doing something
that we were not supposed to
Copy !req
529. and we were getting away with it.
Copy !req
530. The first time I played Postal was,
uh, was back in, I, I think, '97.
Copy !req
531. I saw some ads in,
in a local game magazine called PC Player.
Copy !req
532. Back then, there were no real rules
of who could buy games.
Copy !req
533. No one really knew,
at, at least in Denmark,
Copy !req
534. uh, that, that there were
certain adult-only games.
Copy !req
535. So I saw this box in a game store,
Copy !req
536. and it had these, you know,
yellow-striped, uh, marks
Copy !req
537. on the top and bottom
of the, uh, of the box.
Copy !req
538. I bought the game, brought it home.
I still have that box,
Copy !req
539. and I opened it from the bottom.
Copy !req
540. So it still kind of looks like
it's, it's unopened.
Copy !req
541. I had no idea what I was playing.
I, I was playing a fun game.
Copy !req
542. Uh, I had no idea what the word Postal
meant and where it came from.
Copy !req
543. I was always a fan for both,
that the game was actually fun,
Copy !req
544. it was a good game,
but also that it was a game series
Copy !req
545. that just didn't care
what anyone else thought.
Copy !req
546. And that was very similar
to the kind of games I grew up playing
Copy !req
547. and very similar to the games
that we're making today where,
Copy !req
548. you know, they are kind of edgy,
and, and we're making games
Copy !req
549. that are not necessarily for everyone.
Copy !req
550. But it, it is a game
that shows that there,
Copy !req
551. there's space for everyone
in the games industry
Copy !req
552. and I really like that.
Copy !req
553. But did you also know
that video games…
Copy !req
554. We had bought a lot of airtime
on Howard Stern.
Copy !req
555. And they actually paid extra
Copy !req
556. so Howard Stern could have
a liv— do a live read.
Copy !req
557. Spent a fortune on these people.
Copy !req
558. They— it was a clown show.
Copy !req
559. When they had the,
uh, the read for Howard,
Copy !req
560. where it was supposed to be client,
and it was supposed to say
Copy !req
561. "Running With Scissors" or "Ripcord,"
Copy !req
562. instead, they said "Panasonic."
Copy !req
563. Howard reads it, starts making fun of it.
Copy !req
564. Panasonic goes into a,
a, a crazy mode over this.
Copy !req
565. Immediately, we received,
uh, basically from the former,
Copy !req
566. uh, Postmaster General
of the United States itself,
Copy !req
567. a threatening letter,
because of the word "postal."
Copy !req
568. I had trademarked the word "postal"
Copy !req
569. 'cause the post office itself
was founded by Benjamin Franklin,
Copy !req
570. but nobody ever trademarked the word.
Copy !req
571. So then that created
somewhat of a legal issue
Copy !req
572. between us and the Postmaster General,
Copy !req
573. which is basically the federal government.
Copy !req
574. And one thing led to another.
Copy !req
575. Senator Lieberman,
on the floor of the Senate,
Copy !req
576. he declares three things
that are bad for American society:
Copy !req
577. Calvin Klein underwear ads,
Copy !req
578. Marilyn Manson,
and our video game, Postal.
Copy !req
579. Video games like Postal,
which is marketed by Panasonic
Copy !req
580. in which the player is cast
as a deranged gunman
Copy !req
581. trying to wipe out an entire town.
Copy !req
582. I wanted nothing
to do with the post office.
Copy !req
583. It was nothing about that.
Copy !req
584. It was always about your regular,
everyday guy
Copy !req
585. and just decided enough is enough.
Copy !req
586. Only my weapon understands me.
Copy !req
587. - Oh, yes I do.
Copy !req
588. This is really a,
you know, very crazy game
Copy !req
589. for people that are crazy about games.
Copy !req
590. Lots of people don't see it that way.
Copy !req
591. The Postmaster General, for one,
Copy !req
592. wrote a letter
to the developers of the game
Copy !req
593. saying this is an unfair portrayal
of postal workers.
Copy !req
594. "Dear Mr. Desi.
Copy !req
595. All of us at the Postal Service
have a sense of humor,
Copy !req
596. but there is nothing funny
about your game Postal.
Copy !req
597. It is in very poor taste,
and is an erroneous
Copy !req
598. and unfair portrayal
of the nation's postal employees."
Copy !req
599. No shit. We're talking
about a wacky white trash dude
Copy !req
600. from Arizona who goes off.
Copy !req
601. So I get this though,
Copy !req
602. and my first response
was laughing my ass off.
Copy !req
603. The people that have died at—
in the post offices,
Copy !req
604. it's not a funny thing.
Copy !req
605. There's a big web buzz
right now about, you know,
Copy !req
606. "Should they name it that?"
The post office sent 'em
Copy !req
607. some mail about, you know,
"You can't call it that."
Copy !req
608. I, I have a vague memory of,
Copy !req
609. of the, the "going postal," uh,
incidents that happened.
Copy !req
610. I think there were two,
two or three over the years.
Copy !req
611. But the term "going postal"
was amusing to enough people
Copy !req
612. that it became a slang term
for anybody who's losing their shit.
Copy !req
613. Harry.
Copy !req
614. The game,
after it was released in November,
Copy !req
615. was only on the market,
on the shelves, for two weeks.
Copy !req
616. Then it got pulled. Once it got pulled,
it's more negative press.
Copy !req
617. One thing led to another.
Copy !req
618. And then eventually,
we wound up striking a settlement deal
Copy !req
619. with the publisher because I was like,
"Well, wait a second. You know,
Copy !req
620. - we put all our effort into this.
Copy !req
621. What's going on here?
You're pulling my product."
Copy !req
622. We were get— People were loving it.
Copy !req
623. But here we were, no way to sell the game.
Copy !req
624. - I honestly never was ready
Copy !req
625. or expected anything
that was about to happen.
Copy !req
626. It was not part of a game plan.
Copy !req
627. We didn't do anything on purpose to,
Copy !req
628. you know, be, "Oh, do this
just so you get extra attention."
Copy !req
629. None of that.
Copy !req
630. Once we came out with Postal
and we hit The Wall Street Journal
Copy !req
631. and everything else,
literally, the shit hit the fan.
Copy !req
632. Making headlines in newspapers
Copy !req
633. all around the country,
like The Wall Street Journal.
Copy !req
634. The original plan
to basically have a parallel vision,
Copy !req
635. making kids games like the Disney's
and Hanna-Barbera's
Copy !req
636. and, and Sesame Street most of all,
and making Postal,
Copy !req
637. that plan went to shit.
Copy !req
638. And we were told in person,
Copy !req
639. "I don't know if we're gonna
be able to continue doing business."
Copy !req
640. Sesame Street boked and it ended there
Copy !req
641. because once we lost Sesame Street,
which was a big contract…
Copy !req
642. …that meant we were all, all in on Postal.
Copy !req
643. And I just really tried to focus on,
Copy !req
644. "All right. They wanna fuck?
We're gonna fuck."
Copy !req
645. Uh, and from our own data research, um,
Copy !req
646. unbelievable professionals, attorneys,
doctors are buying our game—
Copy !req
647. I don't care if the
President's playing the game,
Copy !req
648. I still think it has no redeeming value.
Copy !req
649. You know, I'm not here to tell you
what you can do in your house
Copy !req
650. or what you can watch.
So I don't want anybody telling me either.
Copy !req
651. I never had games like that
in our, in our, in our home.
Copy !req
652. - It's a game.
- What do they say to the family members
Copy !req
653. who have experienced a murder
Copy !req
654. that we just absolutely,
ironically make a game out of it?
Copy !req
655. It's becoming a real bad joke.
Copy !req
656. The postal workers' union
is encouraging a boycott.
Copy !req
657. I don't worry about that kind of thing.
Copy !req
658. …it's, like, judging
everybody by one word.
Copy !req
659. If you get to know us,
everybody seems to like their mailman,
Copy !req
660. I don't see the big deal.
Copy !req
661. It's the game that some say
everyone wanted to make,
Copy !req
662. but no one had the balls to make.
Copy !req
663. So here we are 25 years later
and we're still fucking.
Copy !req
664. I, I grew up in, in the era
of people going postal
Copy !req
665. when, uh, disgruntled employees
would show up
Copy !req
666. and, and, you know,
bring their gun to work day.
Copy !req
667. But I, I also recall that, uh,
Copy !req
668. back in the day, Duke Nukem
had a line too saying,
Copy !req
669. "I'm gonna go postal now."
Copy !req
670. Looks like it's time
for me to go postal.
Copy !req
671. I thought it was funny
the first time I heard Duke say it,
Copy !req
672. and then when I saw
there was a Postal game
Copy !req
673. about a dude going postal everywhere,
Copy !req
674. uh, I thought that was hilarious.
Copy !req
675. Uh, I, I mean, "going postal,"
it, it's a sad expression,
Copy !req
676. sad commentary on, on mass shootings.
Copy !req
677. Oh, this is gonna piss off
your viewers, isn't it?
Copy !req
678. - Oh, well.
You wanna dance?
Copy !req
679. Both Duke Nukem and,
and, and Postal series
Copy !req
680. and many others use
kind of a cartoon-style violence.
Copy !req
681. You know, it's very over the top
and it's very, very clearly
Copy !req
682. not meant to be taken seriously.
Copy !req
683. And I think that's also
where the humor comes in,
Copy !req
684. you know, having over-the-top violence,
Copy !req
685. which you now see
in a lot of TV series and cartoons
Copy !req
686. like South Park and The Simpsons
and Family Guy, and so on,
Copy !req
687. it's, it's more what I would consider
these games to be in the category of,
Copy !req
688. compared to games that have
much more realistically depicted violence.
Copy !req
689. There will be kids playing this game,
Copy !req
690. they will have the ax,
they will be holding the ax,
Copy !req
691. and bringing it down on their victim.
Copy !req
692. That's how this will work
when, when played on Wii.
Copy !req
693. I regret nothing.
Copy !req
694. When I was writing my book,
Copy !req
695. The Ultimate History
of Video Games, Volume 2,
Copy !req
696. a mutual friend contacted me
Copy !req
697. and said, "You know, you really
should interview Vince Desi."
Copy !req
698. At the time, I was thin—
kind of thinking of including
Copy !req
699. in my book a Hall of Shame for the games
that pushed things a little too far.
Copy !req
700. I, I don't think the majority
of pastors in the United States
Copy !req
701. would raise an eyebrow at Postal anymore.
Copy !req
702. That leads to the other question,
Copy !req
703. "Did Postal make society sick?
Copy !req
704. Or did society's taste
Copy !req
705. create what would become Postal?"
Copy !req
706. My name is Mike Jaret-Schachter.
Copy !req
707. I'm the VP of Business Development
at Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
708. I was told once that Mike had a little bit
of a different personality before we met.
Copy !req
709. He's very passionate
about whatever he does.
Copy !req
710. That beanie is not supposed to be
on your f****** helmet!
Copy !req
711. Whatever phases he goes through,
he's still himself,
Copy !req
712. but he also needs
to be checked sometimes, too.
Copy !req
713. Any time he gets into a conflict
with someone, I'll get a phone call
Copy !req
714. from his mom saying,
"Can you get Mike to be nicer now?"
Copy !req
715. Mike!
Copy !req
716. In school,
I was pretty average student.
Copy !req
717. I went to my classes,
I did all my homework.
Copy !req
718. My computer class
was where things got interesting
Copy !req
719. and ended up dictating
the rest of my life, actually.
Copy !req
720. There was a kid
in my computer class who knew
Copy !req
721. absolutely nothing about computers,
which is totally fine.
Copy !req
722. But he used to tell us that his dad owned
a video game company in Tucson,
Copy !req
723. which was like, "Come on, that's bullshit.
Copy !req
724. If your dad owns a video game company,
Copy !req
725. you should at least know
how to use a computer."
Copy !req
726. This kid didn't know
how to use a computer.
Copy !req
727. One day, I was leaving class,
and he was sitting outside the school,
Copy !req
728. and he asked me for a ride
to his dad's office.
Copy !req
729. I was like, "Well, that'll be interesting.
Copy !req
730. Like, let's go see
this Circle K, 7-Eleven,
Copy !req
731. whatever, whatever place
your dad works at."
Copy !req
732. So I drove him to the office
and I was wrong.
Copy !req
733. His dad was Vince.
Copy !req
734. He's just under 30 years older than me.
Copy !req
735. He's basically like kindred spirit.
Copy !req
736. We're the same person.
Copy !req
737. Germany just removed all of our games off
of Steam two days ago.
Copy !req
738. Talk about, like,
Nazi regime coming back again.
Copy !req
739. Vince had this personality that
Running With Scissors intersected with.
Copy !req
740. Are you kidding? No regrets.
Absolutely none at all.
Copy !req
741. He made children's video games.
Vince and Wishbone.
Copy !req
742. Vince and Bobby's World.
Copy !req
743. All these games that, like, just don't
represent who he is as a person.
Copy !req
744. Get in fucking line
if you want money, too!
Copy !req
745. You? Fuck you too!
Copy !req
746. I don't know. Maybe your generation
different from my generation.
Copy !req
747. But we pissed on everything
when I was a kid.
Copy !req
748. I met Mike J. through my son Vinny,
and he came to the office.
Copy !req
749. He was loud and cruel and crude
and all those kind of great qualities.
Copy !req
750. Obnoxious to most people.
Copy !req
751. I seen in him a younger self.
Copy !req
752. If somebody asked, "What's the recipe
been for the sausage bread?"
Copy !req
753. Tell you the truth, it's never changed.
Copy !req
754. Sometimes, I'll come up with something
and he makes his own version
Copy !req
755. AKA he fucks it up.
Copy !req
756. Yeah, because taste isn't subjective.
Copy !req
757. He's just honest and direct
and most people can't handle that.
Copy !req
758. He came on board and he's been a treasure,
and is now a partner.
Copy !req
759. The good news is because
we've had constant income in royalties
Copy !req
760. from a variety of sources,
Copy !req
761. we've been able to sustain
and just do this ourselves.
Copy !req
762. A bigger publisher might have said like,
Copy !req
763. "Okay, guys, it's time to quit this now.
Copy !req
764. Like, you're not making tens of millions
of dollars off of this.
Copy !req
765. What are you doing?" And it's like,
Copy !req
766. "Yeah, but we're making enough
to keep making."
Copy !req
767. The original Postal went through hell
Copy !req
768. from the media, the government,
and our original publisher, Ripcord Games.
Copy !req
769. Oh, we feel very sorry
for the, the families that, uh,
Copy !req
770. that have suffered things like that.
Copy !req
771. They paid us.
We couldn't make a game—
Copy !req
772. another Postal game
for two or three years, it was.
Copy !req
773. So we downsized.
Copy !req
774. You know, it was pretty easy at that point
because some people left,
Copy !req
775. and I couldn't go back
to making kids' games,
Copy !req
776. because all the kids' publishers
Copy !req
777. didn't want to do business
with us anymore.
Copy !req
778. So there we were,
figuring what are we gonna do.
Copy !req
779. "We're gonna do this on our own."
Copy !req
780. We were like,
"Okay, we're gonna make Postal 2."
Copy !req
781. The decision was
to make it completely different.
Copy !req
782. I had this picture
of what the game was in my mind,
Copy !req
783. and even though we had, you know,
people working on it in the back,
Copy !req
784. there wasn't really a game.
So I couldn't, I couldn't put,
Copy !req
785. uh, a picture to what was
actually going on in my mind.
Copy !req
786. So in my mind, the game wasn't,
it wasn't that far off
Copy !req
787. of what it, what it ended up being,
but it was different.
Copy !req
788. The original Postal
was built on an old RSP engine
Copy !req
789. we were using for kids' games.
Copy !req
790. Postal 2 being first-person shooter,
everything was new.
Copy !req
791. Just getting the areas
in the size they were to run
Copy !req
792. at the performance they did
was an uphill battle.
Copy !req
793. Getting the characters to move
the way they did was an uphill battle.
Copy !req
794. It kind of all was an uphill battle,
Copy !req
795. and we even released the game
Copy !req
796. with really, really,
really horrible load times.
Copy !req
797. Running With Scissors
is an indie game studio
Copy !req
798. that faces a lot of indie game problems
Copy !req
799. that I think other studios
would get praised for overcoming,
Copy !req
800. or would at least have recognized, like,
Copy !req
801. "Oh, the limitations
of what they were working with.
Copy !req
802. Look at, look at the accomplishment
of what they did,"
Copy !req
803. which no one's gonna give
to Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
804. Running With Scissors has always
been more like a family.
Copy !req
805. I mean, it's, it's definitely different
Copy !req
806. than any other studio
I've ever worked for.
Copy !req
807. You feel at home here,
you feel, like, you know, you're gonna get
Copy !req
808. everyone's honest opinion,
everyone's gonna work their hardest.
Copy !req
809. It's not just clock in and get a paycheck.
Copy !req
810. Uh, these guys, they're really passionate
about what we're doing.
Copy !req
811. It's one of the important parts
of about, uh,
Copy !req
812. Running With Scissors,
I think, is that in the process
Copy !req
813. of interviewing people
around the game studio over the years,
Copy !req
814. uh, to talk about the development
of the games,
Copy !req
815. no one ever said that
they were treated less than great
Copy !req
816. uh, by the guys behind it.
Copy !req
817. They are, on paper,
a really good indie game studio
Copy !req
818. trying their best and oftentimes,
just missing the mark
Copy !req
819. in, in so many places for what
would become a mainstream success.
Copy !req
820. You got to remember it's post-2001.
Copy !req
821. Terrorism, insanity,
Catholic priest perversion.
Copy !req
822. This is just the way
the world was evolving.
Copy !req
823. But the Postal Dude is an individual
Copy !req
824. who basically has to deal
with a lot of shit,
Copy !req
825. just like everybody
in their own real life.
Copy !req
826. We're naive enough to think that
Copy !req
827. kids are not gonna get a hold of this,
so we're just fooling ourselves.
Copy !req
828. I regret nothing.
Copy !req
829. I would have never guessed
in my career that I would—
Copy !req
830. the most notoriety I would have
ever gotten is this Postal series.
Copy !req
831. Didn't you use to work out of a bathroom?
Copy !req
832. Dude, the world is my bathroom!
Copy !req
833. Fitting since this place
is a giant shithole.
Copy !req
834. I didn't think it was gonna be
that big of a deal.
Copy !req
835. I thought it was just
gonna be some local thing.
Copy !req
836. And then, when we did Postal 2,
that's when it really came about.
Copy !req
837. - Whatchu talking 'bout, Willis?
Copy !req
838. Somebody,
I forgot who on the team, said,
Copy !req
839. "We should get, like, Gary Coleman."
Copy !req
840. - And I started doing a little digging…
Copy !req
841. …and I was able to reach Gary Coleman.
Copy !req
842. He came to Tucson.
Copy !req
843. And they say the rest is history.
Copy !req
844. The company Running With Scissors
Copy !req
845. came up with the first game six years ago.
Copy !req
846. Some thought it was a hit,
while others were completely offended.
Copy !req
847. They were just so pent up
and frustrated and angry
Copy !req
848. and having no way to release that tension.
Copy !req
849. So this was a good way to do it.
Copy !req
850. Once we had Gary in the game,
Copy !req
851. the whole game started to go
into this new, absurd, comedic,
Copy !req
852. satirical, crazy kind of way.
Copy !req
853. Hi, there.
Would you like to sign my petition?
Copy !req
854. Whatchu talking 'bout, asshole?
Copy !req
855. Man, what these
game developers won't do for a buck!
Copy !req
856. At least, it's educational.
Copy !req
857. About five years
after the original Postal,
Copy !req
858. April 2003, Postal 2 was released.
Copy !req
859. Did I just kick that guy
Copy !req
860. and cut him in half at the same time?
Copy !req
861. I remember just sitting there
just laughing my head off
Copy !req
862. while I'm playing through it going,
"You know, this is rough.
Copy !req
863. This is raw. And it's,
it's definitely not politically correct."
Copy !req
864. And yet, there are elements
of it that make you uncomfortable
Copy !req
865. and there's elements of it
that make you just laugh beyond belief.
Copy !req
866. With the controversy
over this vicious video game.
Copy !req
867. This is Postal 2.
Copy !req
868. It's a 3D computer game
about a person who goes to work,
Copy !req
869. gets fired, and goes postal
on the people around him.
Copy !req
870. I really was believing that…
Copy !req
871. "This is gonna get us back.
Copy !req
872. Okay? We're gonna,
we're not gonna be banned.
Copy !req
873. You know, the public will love us,
Copy !req
874. but the media will, you know, embrace us."
Copy !req
875. I can tell this is gonna be
an interesting day.
Copy !req
876. Immediate reception
was phenomenal, fantastic,
Copy !req
877. and horrible all in one.
Copy !req
878. The media continue to hate us.
Copy !req
879. The public continue to love us.
Copy !req
880. It's no worse than movies
or anything else in our culture today.
Copy !req
881. One parent we talked to
says he disagrees.
Copy !req
882. I would not let them play it.
Copy !req
883. And I, I didn't understand it,
Copy !req
884. but we were being condemned
all over again.
Copy !req
885. By the time Postal 2 came out,
Copy !req
886. violent video games
were all over the place.
Copy !req
887. I didn't think we'd have any,
any real problems
Copy !req
888. finding a publisher
and then getting coverage.
Copy !req
889. And I was wrong. Game was called Postal.
Copy !req
890. Didn't matter what was popular.
Copy !req
891. We had Osama Bin Laden.
Copy !req
892. We had Gary Coleman,
which people were making fun of.
Copy !req
893. - We had the pissing,
Copy !req
894. we had the cat violence.
Copy !req
895. They, they did this bit
in the, in Postal 2
Copy !req
896. where, uh, you essentially had,
uh, protesters in the game
Copy !req
897. protesting in front
of Running With Scissors.
Copy !req
898. Games are bad, they make you mad!
Copy !req
899. Games are bad, they make you mad!
Copy !req
900. And, uh, and one
of your missions was to, uh,
Copy !req
901. to kill the protesters.
Copy !req
902. I really liked that they kind of
broke the fourth wall,
Copy !req
903. and they're having a fun time
with, with the controversy.
Copy !req
904. Have a nice day.
Copy !req
905. I thought it was funny.
I still think it's funny.
Copy !req
906. I thought it was inappropriate
for ten-year-olds.
Copy !req
907. I still think it's inappropriate
for ten-year-olds.
Copy !req
908. - Oh, that's you! I, I forgot—
- Oh, I have my dick out.
Copy !req
909. It says "censored."
Copy !req
910. - Wait, it says "censored"!
Copy !req
911. Adding, um, Gary Coleman and,
and urinating on people you killed…
Copy !req
912. That's the ticket.
- …didn't make it any better,
Copy !req
913. didn't make it any worse.
Copy !req
914. Wasn't my kind of game,
but it was a game with a sense of humor.
Copy !req
915. I hear a lot of, uh, feedback that,
like, "This really shaped my life,"
Copy !req
916. and it sounds like a grand statement,
Copy !req
917. but a lot of people
will say stuff like that.
Copy !req
918. It's like this, you know,
"This was my childhood
Copy !req
919. and I can blow off steam
in this game," and…
Copy !req
920. The game's only as violent as you are,
and, um, I think that's, that's true.
Copy !req
921. Postal doesn't get enough credit
Copy !req
922. for the fact that it's—
you can play it completely nonviolently.
Copy !req
923. You can get through the entire game
without killing anything.
Copy !req
924. We got the first zero ever
from Computer Gaming World.
Copy !req
925. I also compared it to an infected colon.
Copy !req
926. What an honor.
Copy !req
927. I sort of melded that
into worst game ever,
Copy !req
928. and I thought, "You know what?
We've got to stick this on the box."
Copy !req
929. And I will tell you,
Copy !req
930. that didn't go particularly well
in the office.
Copy !req
931. Fucking shit!
Copy !req
932. I pretty much started hating it
really, really fast,
Copy !req
933. but certainly once, um,
all the racism started coming out.
Copy !req
934. So that's about five minutes in.
Copy !req
935. That's about when I said,
"Oh, Jesus, God, no."
Copy !req
936. Is it for everybody?
No. It's rough, it's raw,
Copy !req
937. it's a maverick production.
Is it a masterpiece? No.
Copy !req
938. Is it a fun, if at times, flawed,
entertaining game? Absolutely.
Copy !req
939. When Robert Coffey
gave us a zero out of ten,
Copy !req
940. my first thought was,
Copy !req
941. "I couldn't pay him enough."
And it was great
Copy !req
942. - 'cause we didn't pay him at all.
Copy !req
943. I think it's funny.
I think it's satirical.
Copy !req
944. It's all in good humor.
And if you want to get
Copy !req
945. your panties in a twist about that,
then, you know, go ahead.
Copy !req
946. You know, there wasn't
social media back then, like,
Copy !req
947. the, the words
that viewers wrote in magazines
Copy !req
948. were, like, the fucking Ten Commandments.
Copy !req
949. Okay? So when people saw this,
they were, like, shell-shocked, hard.
Copy !req
950. I do know that as I played it,
I grew to dislike it more and more,
Copy !req
951. and find it to be really, really awful.
Copy !req
952. So the review is out.
You've given it a zero.
Copy !req
953. What was kind of Postal fans'
response to your review?
Copy !req
954. Death threats.
Copy !req
955. I had hundreds of death threats.
Copy !req
956. Against me, my wife.
I had rape threats against my wife,
Copy !req
957. and I had death threats against
my five and seven-year-old children.
Copy !req
958. Hundreds of them.
Copy !req
959. That's a terrible story you're telling me.
Copy !req
960. But, see, to me, again,
that's a reflection
Copy !req
961. of people's own insecurities.
Copy !req
962. That's news to me.
Copy !req
963. Um, I'm definitely not okay with that.
Copy !req
964. Back then, there wasn't the internet for,
Copy !req
965. for talking shit about things
like there is today.
Copy !req
966. But that's what, you know,
magazines were for.
Copy !req
967. I don't know,
I'm sorry for the stupid things
Copy !req
968. that, I'll call them, Postal fans said,
Copy !req
969. but I don't particularly
find them to be fans
Copy !req
970. if they're threatening people's lives
over somebody not liking our product.
Copy !req
971. If you're gonna like a game like Postal,
you need to accept
Copy !req
972. that probably four out of five
of your friends won't.
Copy !req
973. I stand by my review.
Copy !req
974. From the tears of blood that I wept
as I played this game.
Copy !req
975. This is the same load of shit
that I played 20 years ago.
Copy !req
976. With the negative comes,
like, a bunch of positive.
Copy !req
977. We also got five out of five
from one another media outlet
Copy !req
978. that was also listed on game rankings.
Copy !req
979. So… that led us
to approach the Guinness Records
Copy !req
980. about giving us a Guinness record
for the most divisively reviewed game.
Copy !req
981. And we actually were awarded
Copy !req
982. the most critically
divisive game in history
Copy !req
983. because we received a zero and 100.
Copy !req
984. Now 22 years later
since Postal 1 came out,
Copy !req
985. we are somehow still…
Copy !req
986. the most banned
and blacklisted company in the world.
Copy !req
987. A while back, the industry
took some heat in California
Copy !req
988. with some corrupt senator
Copy !req
989. that was fighting
against the game industry.
Copy !req
990. So the industry itself took the case
to the US Supreme Court,
Copy !req
991. and we got word
that they would be using Postal 2
Copy !req
992. as the flagship title
in defense of the industry.
Copy !req
993. The only thing that I found was
Copy !req
994. you said was clearly covered
by the statute was Postal 2.
Copy !req
995. I mean, how would you
describe in plain English,
Copy !req
996. uh, what, what morbid violence is?
Copy !req
997. Dismembering,
torturing, sexually assaulting,
Copy !req
998. um, and those types of violence.
Copy !req
999. And thank God,
they did vote in favor of Postal 2,
Copy !req
1000. and freedom of expression
and the video game industry.
Copy !req
1001. Thank you, justices.
Copy !req
1002. These games are evil!
Copy !req
1003. It wasn't until the game
was released in Russia by Akella
Copy !req
1004. that it really started selling big units
Copy !req
1005. and, and it was a,
a smash fucking hit in Russia.
Copy !req
1006. Postal was extremely popular in Russia.
Copy !req
1007. It was selling like hotcakes on Christmas.
Copy !req
1008. We're going there
to meet these guys officially
Copy !req
1009. and go to the,
go to the offices and see them.
Copy !req
1010. - Right when we leave New York,
Copy !req
1011. this little Russian kid comes up to me,
Copy !req
1012. and he's like, "Postal!"
Copy !req
1013. That didn't happen here, like, ever.
Copy !req
1014. I wore my Postal shirts everywhere.
Copy !req
1015. And maybe at a gaming trade show,
Copy !req
1016. someone would be like,
"Oh, hey, Running With Scissors!"
Copy !req
1017. But not, like, on an airplane.
Copy !req
1018. We're on an airplane
and some little kid, "Postal!"
Copy !req
1019. We told him, "Yeah, yeah,
we make the video game."
Copy !req
1020. He lights up.
Copy !req
1021. And he goes and tells all of his friends
Copy !req
1022. and suddenly, we have to,
like, kind of interact
Copy !req
1023. with all these little Russian kids
that we didn't really know.
Copy !req
1024. And it was kind of like,
"Oh, oh, maybe more Russian kids know
Copy !req
1025. about this than we thought."
We know we made a project,
Copy !req
1026. we know we've sold plenty of copies.
Copy !req
1027. We know that, like,
people have game posters in their house,
Copy !req
1028. and they want to meet the people
that make their game and that's all cool.
Copy !req
1029. But it didn't ever really occur to me,
I guess that,
Copy !req
1030. potentially, could be me, I guess.
Copy !req
1031. Please welcome RWS's Mike J!
Copy !req
1032. This guy's fucking—
Copy !req
1033. We went back a few more times.
Copy !req
1034. And every time
we would go for these things,
Copy !req
1035. we would sit and sign autographs
for people endlessly.
Copy !req
1036. I mean, why are all these kids
lining up to get our autograph?
Copy !req
1037. This is cool, but why?
Copy !req
1038. That also set, I would say,
the business grounds
Copy !req
1039. for working with Running With Scissors,
Copy !req
1040. not just, uh, as a publisher/developer
Copy !req
1041. but maybe looking to, like,
even a deeper collaboration.
Copy !req
1042. We were like, "Well, you know, this is
a super-accepting country of our shit."
Copy !req
1043. Like, we knew where we stood
in the United States.
Copy !req
1044. We knew the countries
that we were not allowed in.
Copy !req
1045. This is clearly
the place that loves Postal.
Copy !req
1046. We're working on Postal III right now
for PC and Xbox 360 with Akella!
Copy !req
1047. We are hearing from friends
who are honoring the U of I student
Copy !req
1048. shot and killed
at the Tim Faulkner Art Gallery
Copy !req
1049. in the Portland neighborhood
over the weekend.
Copy !req
1050. Six people were shot and all,
Copy !req
1051. including 20-year-old Savannah Walker,
who died at the scene.
Copy !req
1052. Friends told the family
Savannah pushed others
Copy !req
1053. out of the way when the shooting began.
Copy !req
1054. She always put everyone first.
Copy !req
1055. Always everyone first.
Copy !req
1056. The reality of shooting somebody
in his case was blinded.
Copy !req
1057. It was merged.
He had left playing video games.
Copy !req
1058. He then went home and didn't realize
that his parents might be, might be dead.
Copy !req
1059. New details about the mass shooting
Copy !req
1060. in Jacksonville, Florida,
at a video game competition.
Copy !req
1061. Three dead, including the gunman.
Copy !req
1062. I haven't imagined
in my whole life that my son
Copy !req
1063. can do such a thing.
Copy !req
1064. This is major
what's happening here right now.
Copy !req
1065. We're above Dawson College,
Maisonneuve Boulevard.
Copy !req
1066. Many injured, I can tell you…
Copy !req
1067. September 13th of 2006,
it's a Wednesday afternoon in Montreal.
Copy !req
1068. Dawson College is a university
with about 8000 students.
Copy !req
1069. Outside of the school,
a black car pulls up,
Copy !req
1070. a guy with a mohawk gets out.
Copy !req
1071. He's got a big trench coat on.
Copy !req
1072. He's got a black duffel bag.
Copy !req
1073. I was in Montreal.
Copy !req
1074. I was giving lectures,
delivering papers, and so on.
Copy !req
1075. I saw the footage, live footage,
Copy !req
1076. that there is a drama that is taking place
about 400 meters away from my hotel.
Copy !req
1077. A guy by the name of Kimveer Gill
entered into Dawson College
Copy !req
1078. in downtown Montreal…
Copy !req
1079. …and opened fire.
Copy !req
1080. So it is Jed Kahane reporting
on this, uh, terrible, uh…
Copy !req
1081. …tragedy in that, it's…
Copy !req
1082. We, we are not sure how many,
uh, people are dead.
Copy !req
1083. We saw him take the rifle
out of his truck.
Copy !req
1084. We just heard more shots ringing out.
Copy !req
1085. Someone got hit
beside me right down, full of blood,
Copy !req
1086. and I just went into a classroom.
Copy !req
1087. We heard more and more gunshots.
Copy !req
1088. The shooter was shot in the arm
and then took his own life.
Copy !req
1089. At 12:48 p.m.,
18-year-old Anastasia De Sousa
Copy !req
1090. killed in the rampage
and 19 others injured
Copy !req
1091. on September 13th, 2006.
Copy !req
1092. Like a lot
of other school shootings,
Copy !req
1093. the school shooter is now dead, uh,
Copy !req
1094. so there is not really a chance
to interrogate him later
Copy !req
1095. about what brought him to this point,
what inspired him to do this.
Copy !req
1096. What we do have is
hundreds of pages of posts
Copy !req
1097. from a social media site
called vampirefreaks.com.
Copy !req
1098. It was designed
especially for the goth culture.
Copy !req
1099. So it was about goth music,
goth clothes, their likes, their dislikes.
Copy !req
1100. The thing that makes it a little different
Copy !req
1101. from other social media
blog-type sites at the time
Copy !req
1102. is that there is a ranking system.
Copy !req
1103. People can give you points
Copy !req
1104. for how dark and edgy they think you are.
Copy !req
1105. There's a gamified system here
that rewards you
Copy !req
1106. for being more of a edgelord,
more of a dark, threatening person.
Copy !req
1107. The goth are cool
and peaceful people on the whole.
Copy !req
1108. When they are on the fringe,
Copy !req
1109. you'll find violent
and very extreme fringe
Copy !req
1110. of the goth culture.
Copy !req
1111. Kimveer Gill belonged to that fringe.
Copy !req
1112. He was extremely violent person.
Copy !req
1113. So who is Kimveer Gill
and how do we reach this point?
Copy !req
1114. Kimveer was a loner.
Copy !req
1115. He lived in a basement
of his parents, did not work,
Copy !req
1116. and his world was virtual.
Copy !req
1117. He was not very friendly.
Copy !req
1118. He said he hated people.
Copy !req
1119. And he played games.
Copy !req
1120. Kimveer Gill is a huge fan of Postal.
Copy !req
1121. Did Postal cause him
to do a school shooting?
Copy !req
1122. Just as much as anything else
that he posted repeatedly about loving.
Copy !req
1123. He loved Metallica.
He loved Marilyn Manson.
Copy !req
1124. To what degree do any of these things
play into him being a school shooter?
Copy !req
1125. I'm scared every day,
Copy !req
1126. um, for my son, for his friends.
Copy !req
1127. They play these video games
Copy !req
1128. and they, the way they talk
to each other and,
Copy !req
1129. you know, "Oh, you shot me!"
Copy !req
1130. And then they turn around
and they kill all of them.
Copy !req
1131. They go, "Ah! We'll reset it
and we'll play again later."
Copy !req
1132. That, to me, is disgusting.
Copy !req
1133. And it makes me think that they're
becoming completely desensitized
Copy !req
1134. to what that actually means
out in the real world.
Copy !req
1135. Not for all people,
because millions of people
Copy !req
1136. are playing violent video games.
Copy !req
1137. But if you have susceptibility to violence
and you entertain violent sentiments,
Copy !req
1138. it might be the, the time
that for some of these people,
Copy !req
1139. they will go on shooting sprees.
Copy !req
1140. The game become part of their reality.
Copy !req
1141. My son can sit on the video game
for six hours a day.
Copy !req
1142. I can't imagine
how doing that for six hours
Copy !req
1143. doesn't affect you in some way.
Copy !req
1144. And when you're seven, eight,
nine, even younger,
Copy !req
1145. it has to mentally affect you in some way.
Copy !req
1146. And unfortunately, you don't see
those effects until later on.
Copy !req
1147. They're becoming very, very desensitized
to what could really happen in the world.
Copy !req
1148. Violence, the realism
that you find in games and movies…
Copy !req
1149. The corrosive influence
of a violent-oriented world…
Copy !req
1150. Usually, Postal gets brought up
by politicians around a school shooting
Copy !req
1151. 'cause it's easier than talking about guns
Copy !req
1152. or mental health or bullying
or an individual situation.
Copy !req
1153. Games get an M rating for "mature,"
Copy !req
1154. meaning stores are not supposed
to sell to anyone under 17.
Copy !req
1155. Why kids nowadays, um, resort
to violence to, to resolve conflict?
Copy !req
1156. It's absolutely, um, mind-boggling to me
Copy !req
1157. how that is and why it is continuing
in the world today.
Copy !req
1158. Like a lot of other pop culture things,
Copy !req
1159. it's an easy thing
to point to for politicians.
Copy !req
1160. We can blame a video game
that has a school shooting sequence in it.
Copy !req
1161. He's a complicated human being
who used a website to share
Copy !req
1162. a lot of things that he thought
were dangerous and scary.
Copy !req
1163. All stakeholders are responsible
for the consequences.
Copy !req
1164. It shouldn't be on Vince Desi
Copy !req
1165. to have to get in front of a camera
and apologize.
Copy !req
1166. He didn't do this
and that guy didn't just like Postal.
Copy !req
1167. He liked thousands of things
and blogged about it at length.
Copy !req
1168. Postal is in there,
but Postal is in there for that person.
Copy !req
1169. It's not who he was in its entirety.
Copy !req
1170. There are close similarities
between the Dude in Postal
Copy !req
1171. and Kimveer Gill.
Copy !req
1172. It's hard to not see
the resemblance here.
Copy !req
1173. They dress exactly the same.
Copy !req
1174. The combat boots.
Copy !req
1175. Slim figure, holding a gun.
Copy !req
1176. The big jacket.
Copy !req
1177. It is unfortunate
that it's a pretty clear line of him
Copy !req
1178. being a fan of this
Copy !req
1179. to how he chose to go about this.
Copy !req
1180. In his blog,
Gill describe what he expected of a sequel
Copy !req
1181. to Postal 2, and I quote,
Copy !req
1182. "There should be more to do
Copy !req
1183. other than just shooting people
for no reason.
Copy !req
1184. There needs to be a plot
and a good storyline."
Copy !req
1185. Gill reflected on his feelings
about the video game character by saying,
Copy !req
1186. and this is another quote
from Gill…
Copy !req
1187. Much like Gill himself.
Copy !req
1188. A regular Joe is about to uncover…
Copy !req
1189. - Jihad!
- …two sinister plots.
Copy !req
1190. Today, we do God's work.
Copy !req
1191. We will strike a blow against America.
Copy !req
1192. Postal.
- Everybody should buy my book.
Copy !req
1193. How to Fire an Employee
Without Making Them Go Postal.
Copy !req
1194. We had originally gotten
Copy !req
1195. an email from, like, an Uwe Boll fan site.
Copy !req
1196. Like, this kid was
a huge Uwe Boll fan, German kid,
Copy !req
1197. and he was like,
"Hey, man, I'm friends with Uwe!
Copy !req
1198. Uh, we want to make the,
we want him to make a Postal movie.
Copy !req
1199. What do you think? He's interested."
Copy !req
1200. Blah, blah, blah, and, you know,
Copy !req
1201. I was pretty familiar, uh,
with his body of work at the time.
Copy !req
1202. Alone in the Dark and House of the Dead
Copy !req
1203. and, uh, so I, I deleted the email.
Copy !req
1204. Couple of weeks later,
we got another email.
Copy !req
1205. The more we kind of talked
about it back and forth, it was like,
Copy !req
1206. "Well, we make
a certain quality of product.
Copy !req
1207. We know it's not the best.
Copy !req
1208. In fact, we might call it
the worst game ever."
Copy !req
1209. His reputation was that he was,
you know, the worst director
Copy !req
1210. in Hollywood kind of thing.
Copy !req
1211. If anybody's gonna make the Postal movie,
Copy !req
1212. it might as well be the guy
that's making the worst video game films.
Copy !req
1213. And I was like,
"Well, this is a, this is perfect for us."
Copy !req
1214. There are other villains
in the video game industry,
Copy !req
1215. - there are other people to hate us.
Copy !req
1216. - Uwe Boll!
Copy !req
1217. Okay, look, Uwe challenged
to box director Michael Bay in the ring.
Copy !req
1218. - What would you do to him?
- Yeah, let's see!
Copy !req
1219. Hello, Michael.
Copy !req
1220. - No, I would like to…
Copy !req
1221. - …punch him!
Oh, Jesus!
Copy !req
1222. So and then obviously,
there's some people on the internet
Copy !req
1223. that are not fans of your films.
Copy !req
1224. And if you look at Rotten Tomatoes,
the critics aren't as well.
Copy !req
1225. F*** yourself.
Copy !req
1226. You know, there's guys that are out
that, that have petitions,
Copy !req
1227. you know, against you making
video game movies.
Copy !req
1228. The fight was a one-sided affair.
Copy !req
1229. Some speculated that Boll's decade-long
Copy !req
1230. amateur boxing experience
gave him an unfair advantage.
Copy !req
1231. American audiences will have
a chance to see his movies
Copy !req
1232. whether they want it or not
proving that Uwe Boll
Copy !req
1233. is a force more inevitable than death.
Copy !req
1234. I'm the only genius
in the whole fucking business. Goodbye.
Copy !req
1235. My name is Uwe Boll
and I'm the director of the Postal movie.
Copy !req
1236. - You are?
Copy !req
1237. Oh, f***, that's great, man.
Copy !req
1238. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Copy !req
1239. A, a company came to me and said,
Copy !req
1240. "We have the rights to the video game,
House of the Dead.
Copy !req
1241. What you may be know from the arcades."
Copy !req
1242. And I said, "Yes, I know
Ho— House of the Dead.
Copy !req
1243. I, I played it various times."
Copy !req
1244. So we did the House of the Dead movie.
Copy !req
1245. - Action!
Copy !req
1246. It got horrible reviews
and everybody hated me for it,
Copy !req
1247. but it actually made good money worldwide.
Copy !req
1248. - So I continued the road
Copy !req
1249. to make video game-based movies.
Copy !req
1250. This fan club said,
"You should make a film out of that game."
Copy !req
1251. So then I dived into it,
checked Postal out,
Copy !req
1252. and found it extremely…
violent,
Copy !req
1253. funny,
Copy !req
1254. crazy…
Copy !req
1255. - …stupid…
Copy !req
1256. Oh, my God, I'm the damn gimp!
Copy !req
1257. …cheap.
Copy !req
1258. So, I loved it.
Copy !req
1259. He invited me up to Vancouver
Copy !req
1260. where he was living,
and he's shooting all his movies.
Copy !req
1261. Great guy in person.
Copy !req
1262. And then we agreed
on putting a deal together.
Copy !req
1263. We started talking about it.
Copy !req
1264. Put together what we considered
to be our treatment of the Postal movie.
Copy !req
1265. It was very violent. Like Taxi Driver.
Copy !req
1266. Uh, I felt— "No, no, no, no, no.
Copy !req
1267. That, that would make it
too cheap in a way."
Copy !req
1268. You know, there are all the rumors out
Copy !req
1269. that my movies
are financed with Nazi gold.
Copy !req
1270. And what should I say? It's true!
Copy !req
1271. Our treatment of the Postal movie was, um…
Copy !req
1272. …diametric opposites
from what ended up coming out.
Copy !req
1273. Did you know about this?
- No, I didn't f****** know about this!
Copy !req
1274. But, I mean, it was a fun storyline.
It has to do with the Krotchy Doll.
Copy !req
1275. You know, he had Verne Troyer,
who was Mini-Me in the movie,
Copy !req
1276. who was really a lot of fun to work with.
Copy !req
1277. Dan Clark, the line producer
and producer on it, uh, and me went to LA.
Copy !req
1278. So we hired Morman Boling Casting,
Copy !req
1279. - two young girls, basically.
Copy !req
1280. They, I shouldn't say,
just started out of a little, like, shed.
Copy !req
1281. Yeah. And they went out and…
Copy !req
1282. - …invited people to read for us.
Copy !req
1283. So, uh, we were sitting in LA
in that little shed
Copy !req
1284. and people came in
and out and were reading.
Copy !req
1285. But then… uh, Zack Ward came in.
Copy !req
1286. I remember. I literally,
I can see it in my head right now…
Copy !req
1287. …the audition room was pretty shitty,
Copy !req
1288. and I remember it was kind of,
like, the middle of the day,
Copy !req
1289. a very hot day,
and there was no air conditioning.
Copy !req
1290. This is a shithole.
Copy !req
1291. And I think I was reading
for a different character.
Copy !req
1292. Not even the Postal Dude.
Copy !req
1293. He was reading as—
for one of the cop parts.
Copy !req
1294. After he left, like,
Dan and I looked at us
Copy !req
1295. and we felt like,
"No, that is the Postal Dude."
Copy !req
1296. And that was really exciting.
That was huge.
Copy !req
1297. You know, to get to star
in a movie is a big, big deal.
Copy !req
1298. Who writes this shit?
Copy !req
1299. No soup for you!
Copy !req
1300. - No soup for you!
Copy !req
1301. - What?
- Come back one year!
Copy !req
1302. And I was reading the script on a train
to a charity event in Santa Barbara,
Copy !req
1303. and I was laughing so loudly
people were staring at me.
Copy !req
1304. The lead character, the Postal Dude,
I mean, he's not wrong.
Copy !req
1305. What is wrong with you people?
Copy !req
1306. People are just dicks.
Copy !req
1307. He's frustrated by it,
Copy !req
1308. and he's railing against a society
that believes its own hype.
Copy !req
1309. So yeah, that was,
that was really appealing with the script.
Copy !req
1310. I did not see it as, like,
a shock movie or cheap humor.
Copy !req
1311. The American dream is not a dream for you.
Copy !req
1312. I really saw the possibility
of a great social satire.
Copy !req
1313. In fact,
Copy !req
1314. - it is a nightmare!
Copy !req
1315. I didn't know anything
about Uwe's, um, reputation.
Copy !req
1316. I didn't know that he was controversial.
Copy !req
1317. I didn't know that he, you know,
was gonna fight his—
Copy !req
1318. people reviewing his movies.
Copy !req
1319. We have there a great opportunity
Copy !req
1320. to show the craziness
of the world we're living in.
Copy !req
1321. Bringing Bin Laden, uh,
bringing Bush, uh, September 11th.
Copy !req
1322. All right. Well, drop me an email.
Copy !req
1323. Tell me what pipe you're talking about
and I'll blow it all the way to Mecca.
Copy !req
1324. The Taliban.
Copy !req
1325. The avian bird flu.
Copy !req
1326. And we're reading this,
like, 9/11 scene on paper,
Copy !req
1327. and it's just not funny.
Copy !req
1328. - Like, are we fucking kidding?
Copy !req
1329. Like, we're gonna open probably one
of the more offensive movies
Copy !req
1330. of all time with, like,
the worst joke of all time?
Copy !req
1331. And the opening scene makes no joke
about the victims of September 11.
Copy !req
1332. But, like, there was
no talking him out of it.
Copy !req
1333. Like, it just wasn't gonna happen.
Copy !req
1334. This opening scene makes fun
out of 99 virgins.
Copy !req
1335. - I thought that it was 100?
- What's that?
Copy !req
1336. One hundred virgins. They promised me 100.
Copy !req
1337. Nobody wants to die anymore
unless they get virgins.
Copy !req
1338. And at that point, we kind of realize
like, "Well, this isn't our project."
Copy !req
1339. There wasn't a lot
of video game movies being made,
Copy !req
1340. and we were happy to be one of 'em.
Copy !req
1341. Uh, not to mention
it was gonna cost, like,
Copy !req
1342. something around $20 million
to make this movie, and we're, like…
Copy !req
1343. Yeah, I, I don't have any money.
Copy !req
1344. "Well, that's way higher
than any of our game budgets.
Copy !req
1345. So something cool's gonna happen here."
Copy !req
1346. In my mind, he's shooting,
Copy !req
1347. like, a bunch of kids
making a high school film.
Copy !req
1348. The sets are, like, cardboard
and just kick them over.
Copy !req
1349. And… cut!
Copy !req
1350. - Wonderful scene, Sammy. Just wonderful.
Copy !req
1351. This was a legitimate production.
I mean, there's fucking cast trailers.
Copy !req
1352. - There's, uh, food and beverage tent.
Copy !req
1353. There's, you know,
Copy !req
1354. - cameras galore, the chairs…
- [creaking, clattering]
Copy !req
1355. I mean, you know, to us,
it, it was a different world,
Copy !req
1356. like, seeing this shit going on.
Copy !req
1357. We're like, "Wow, this is, this could be
really fucking good."
Copy !req
1358. Filming was a joy.
Copy !req
1359. Uwe was into taking every suggestion
that you threw at him.
Copy !req
1360. Shooting with Uwe was an adventure.
Copy !req
1361. Three, two, one!
Copy !req
1362. So my first day on the set of Postal
Copy !req
1363. was the one shooting the cannon gun
off the back of a Mustang.
Copy !req
1364. As I'm getting wired to do that,
Copy !req
1365. they were lighting a man on fire.
Copy !req
1366. Uh, I knew I was involved in something
kind of fucking crazy.
Copy !req
1367. Bring on the monkeys!
Copy !req
1368. You know, you, you first meet Uwe Boll,
and he's a weird dude.
Copy !req
1369. Uwe's sitting there
in a director's chair like this.
Copy !req
1370. He's got a laptop in front of him.
Copy !req
1371. He's talking to Germany,
Copy !req
1372. uh, either over the laptop
or on the phone…
Copy !req
1373. - …and he has one or two dogs on his lap.
Copy !req
1374. And they're not little dogs,
they're big ass dogs
Copy !req
1375. that he had found in Romania
and, uh, and adopted.
Copy !req
1376. Which is lovely and great.
But this is the pr—
Copy !req
1377. "Yeah, go ahead, do it again, but faster!
Copy !req
1378. Yes, not so slow. I want it faster.
Okay, go ahead."
Copy !req
1379. So he's producing the next film
while he's directing this one.
Copy !req
1380. You got to ha—
be able to command a set.
Copy !req
1381. And Uwe does that great.
Copy !req
1382. With the accent
and the German Shepherds running around,
Copy !req
1383. just makes you feel uncomfortable.
Copy !req
1384. The crew couldn't wait
to see the dailies every day,
Copy !req
1385. so the crew came to the,
to my video village and,
Copy !req
1386. like, "Show us the dailies!
Show us the dailies!"
Copy !req
1387. And they were laughing their asses off,
and so were the actors.
Copy !req
1388. As you know, in Little Germany,
I played myself.
Copy !req
1389. For my role, which was small,
Copy !req
1390. I'm playing the Krotchy
character in the big suit.
Copy !req
1391. But when I looked at the script,
I said to him,
Copy !req
1392. "Look, I don't speak this way.
This is not me."
Copy !req
1393. He was real cool about it.
He was like, "No, that's fine.
Copy !req
1394. Say what you want."
My scene is, like, I'm on stage with them
Copy !req
1395. and I rip off the head of the Krotchy suit
and I just say…
Copy !req
1396. Boll, I'm Vince Desi.
What the fuck you do to my game Postal?
Copy !req
1397. I don't know what your fucking problem is.
The movie is great!
Copy !req
1398. Then we start fighting
and I eventually, get shot.
Copy !req
1399. Oh, shit!
Copy !req
1400. One of the days I was on set,
I got there the week after Vince shot
Copy !req
1401. in the Little Germany town,
Copy !req
1402. which, you know,
I mean, I take it in jest,
Copy !req
1403. but, like, that whole area was,
Copy !req
1404. like, filled with hardcore
Nazi paraphernalia and jokes.
Copy !req
1405. It's like, whatever. This is all for fun.
Copy !req
1406. - Are you my dad?
- No.
Copy !req
1407. One of our things
as a company has always been:
Copy !req
1408. we just don't include kids.
Copy !req
1409. It's just one of our things
we just don't touch,
Copy !req
1410. and he clearly did not have
that same opinion.
Copy !req
1411. He— there was just,
like, droves of parents
Copy !req
1412. with their kids lined up
outside of Little Germany
Copy !req
1413. to get their kids rigged up
for squibs and shot on film.
Copy !req
1414. And I remember his, I don't know,
maybe it was his assistant director
Copy !req
1415. or his producer sort of said to him, like,
Copy !req
1416. "Hey, Uwe, um,
shooting kids is not funny."
Copy !req
1417. And, and Uwe's line was,
"Yes, shooting kids is not funny.
Copy !req
1418. But if you shoot a bunch of kids in slo-mo
Copy !req
1419. and you make a montage
out of it, it's hilarious."
Copy !req
1420. - And kind of everybody in the room looked
Copy !req
1421. and was like, "What the fuck, man?"
Copy !req
1422. When I saw the cut of the movie,
I turned green.
Copy !req
1423. And then, at the first screening
was the surprise of a lifetime.
Copy !req
1424. I was not happy with it.
Copy !req
1425. It was good, it was funny,
but we're like, "It's too long."
Copy !req
1426. It's about 110 or 12 minutes.
Copy !req
1427. I would have easily cut
ten minutes out of it.
Copy !req
1428. I don't know if I've ever seen
a project change so much
Copy !req
1429. from what you shot to something else.
Copy !req
1430. I got the cut of the film
Copy !req
1431. and I asked Uwe
if I could pass on some editing notes.
Copy !req
1432. And Uwe's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah,
go do this. This is fine."
Copy !req
1433. Back then, I didn't know how to edit,
so I hired an editor through Christmas
Copy !req
1434. trying to reedit it
to make the jokes land better
Copy !req
1435. and make the timing make sense.
Copy !req
1436. And, uh, wrote 12 pages of notes.
Copy !req
1437. Not a single fucking edit note was taken.
Copy !req
1438. No fucks were given.
Copy !req
1439. It was just a goddamn waste of my time.
Copy !req
1440. It was suddenly this,
you know, toilet humor, shock movie,
Copy !req
1441. instead of the great social satire
that I saw and read in the script.
Copy !req
1442. Not only the shoot was great,
but also the, uh, the result,
Copy !req
1443. it's just, like,
I feel it's totally amazing.
Copy !req
1444. It's the best video game-based
movie ever made.
Copy !req
1445. The company that was handling the release
was actually, uh, Universal.
Copy !req
1446. Universal had a division called
Vivendi Home Entertainment,
Copy !req
1447. and it was kind of, like,
their indie department,
Copy !req
1448. and they had two films at the time.
Copy !req
1449. They had Postal
and they had In the Name of the King.
Copy !req
1450. Now that's a turd.
Copy !req
1451. Complete piece of glowing shit.
Copy !req
1452. Oh, my God, is that a turd.
Copy !req
1453. It costs $60 million.
Copy !req
1454. I mean, it had Ray Liotta,
Jason Statham, Leelee Sobieski,
Copy !req
1455. Ron Perlman, just, like, endless big cast.
Copy !req
1456. But it was hot garbage.
Copy !req
1457. It's the weirdest fucking movie.
No one's got a…
Copy !req
1458. a solid accent.
You don't know where they're from.
Copy !req
1459. Someone's, like…
"Hello, my Lord!"
Copy !req
1460. And he's, like…
"Yeah, what's up?"
Copy !req
1461. And you're like, "What? What?"
Copy !req
1462. This kingdom consumes men like a beast.
Copy !req
1463. - Give me the chicken.
Copy !req
1464. This is a direct quote.
Copy !req
1465. I said…
Copy !req
1466. He's released like three major
theatrical bombs at that point.
Copy !req
1467. I mean, you only get
so many shots at, at success
Copy !req
1468. and In the Name of the King came out,
Copy !req
1469. it got this massive 2000+ screen release.
Copy !req
1470. We as a team ended up
going to see it in the theater.
Copy !req
1471. But we were watching this, like, crying,
Copy !req
1472. because we were watching
our own movie's chances of coming out die.
Copy !req
1473. So that was $60 million,
a ton of money spent in marketing.
Copy !req
1474. Nothing left for Postal.
Copy !req
1475. Fuck Postal.
Copy !req
1476. I'm pretty sure
that's what the studio did.
Copy !req
1477. The plan was to release it on 1500 screens
Copy !req
1478. and in the end, we got, like, 20,
Copy !req
1479. because all exhibitors
refused to play the film.
Copy !req
1480. There was a massive
DVD preorder for Postal.
Copy !req
1481. There was a something like
a 1000-screen release looking to come out
Copy !req
1482. and after In the Name of the King bombed,
Copy !req
1483. all the theater buyers
and all the DVD buyers
Copy !req
1484. were, like…
Copy !req
1485. "Bye."
Copy !req
1486. I, I, I still don't get it
how journalists could write
Copy !req
1487. negative things about Postal.
Copy !req
1488. I still don't get it. Are they blind?
Copy !req
1489. Do they have no clue what a good movie is?
Copy !req
1490. To be honest, I mean, it's, it's insane.
Copy !req
1491. I think it's one of the best
political satires ever done.
Copy !req
1492. Now, some of you may be asking,
"Isn't crystal meth illegal?"
Copy !req
1493. Technically, yes, but the US Air Force
uses it to fuel their pilots
Copy !req
1494. when they are on night missions
over Afghanistan.
Copy !req
1495. Fuck. Why can't Postal,
like, break through?
Copy !req
1496. Like, why can't we just get something out
that gives us notoriety?
Copy !req
1497. For us, this was kind of
one of those stepping stone projects,
Copy !req
1498. like, "This is gonna be
in theaters everywhere.
Copy !req
1499. This is gonna have DVDs
on the shelves everywhere."
Copy !req
1500. And it just ended up being kind of,
like…
Copy !req
1501. another, um, step back
in the Postal story.
Copy !req
1502. The whole process of, of Postal,
to shoot the film,
Copy !req
1503. it, it was the happiest time of my life.
Copy !req
1504. I really have to say it.
It was the best shoot I ever had.
Copy !req
1505. And every day, I came
full motivated to the film set.
Copy !req
1506. Out, out of all the video game
movie experiences that I've had,
Copy !req
1507. Postal ranks number one.
Copy !req
1508. It was awesome.
Copy !req
1509. It took risks.
It threw the bird at everything holy.
Copy !req
1510. I dug the fuck out of it.
Copy !req
1511. The fact that I got to be
part of something
Copy !req
1512. that had such huge balls
to really go for it,
Copy !req
1513. fearlessly, be like,
"This is what I'm doing."
Copy !req
1514. You know, that's, that's Vince Desi,
that's Postal, that's Uwe Boll.
Copy !req
1515. And I got to be part of that.
Copy !req
1516. I didn't put that shit together. They did.
Copy !req
1517. They're the ones who risked everything.
Copy !req
1518. So, yeah, it was an honor.
Copy !req
1519. It was an honor to be the Postal Dude.
Copy !req
1520. I, I, I do remember
getting a copy of Postal III.
Copy !req
1521. I remember playing it
and I remember playing through it,
Copy !req
1522. and there were a lot of bugs.
Copy !req
1523. And I would, of course,
report that to them.
Copy !req
1524. I'll be honest, I was disappointed.
Copy !req
1525. I remember
Vince was very excited about it.
Copy !req
1526. I remember him talking to me about it
when they were filming the Postal movie
Copy !req
1527. and how he talked about the overseas team
Copy !req
1528. and how he was making
several trips over there
Copy !req
1529. and they thought it would be a, a big step
Copy !req
1530. in the, in a new direction
for the franchise.
Copy !req
1531. You know, "We're gonna do
a third-person perspective,"
Copy !req
1532. that sort of thing.
Copy !req
1533. And, and I remember
how disappointed they were
Copy !req
1534. when Steam took it off the store
and how the game that they got
Copy !req
1535. was not what they had pitched
or had been expecting.
Copy !req
1536. This is really sad because I, I worried
Copy !req
1537. that this was the end
of the franchise at this point.
Copy !req
1538. Do you like the game?
I think it's really important for—
Copy !req
1539. - Postal III
Yeah, Postal III.
Copy !req
1540. My personal feelings about Postal III…
Copy !req
1541. …unfortunately…
Copy !req
1542. …are riddled with pain.
Copy !req
1543. Postal 2 in Russia
Copy !req
1544. - was a tremendous success.
Copy !req
1545. It was kind of, like,
the equivalent of GTA for Russia.
Copy !req
1546. Kind of a wacky time for us
Copy !req
1547. 'cause, like, we're struggling
to sell discs here
Copy !req
1548. and they're just dumping them there,
because kids just love this shit.
Copy !req
1549. Sign the petition,
Copy !req
1550. or else I'll go to your house
and kill your dog!
Copy !req
1551. And as a result of that,
our Russian partners,
Copy !req
1552. a company called Akella,
they approached us,
Copy !req
1553. and said, "Hey, let's do Postal III."
Copy !req
1554. - Sounds like a great idea.
Copy !req
1555. Welcome to Akella,
one of the first companies
Copy !req
1556. ventured to develop and publish
computer games,
Copy !req
1557. and multimedia products in Russia.
Copy !req
1558. Our main business directions
are development,
Copy !req
1559. publishing and distribution
of computer programs.
Copy !req
1560. My name's Andrey Belkin.
Copy !req
1561. I used to be producer
for Postal III at Akella.
Copy !req
1562. Oh, what the fuck is this?
Copy !req
1563. Akella was
quite big for the day,
Copy !req
1564. quite known both as a developer
Copy !req
1565. in the, the local publisher
for Russia and CIS countries.
Copy !req
1566. As a developer, in fact, it was more known
Copy !req
1567. for working on naval-themed games…
Copy !req
1568. - …Sea Dogs or Age of Sail.
Copy !req
1569. The biggest-known title
Copy !req
1570. remains to be
the first Pirates of the Caribbean.
Copy !req
1571. The arrangement was Running With Scissors
would design the game in-house.
Copy !req
1572. We would do the character development,
we'd write the script, etcetera,
Copy !req
1573. but all the coding and the game level,
Copy !req
1574. art, etcetera would have
been done in Russia.
Copy !req
1575. You know,
we wrote this design up for it,
Copy !req
1576. and we came to this agreement with Akella
Copy !req
1577. and it was just gonna be
this massive co-production.
Copy !req
1578. The budget was gonna be
significantly higher
Copy !req
1579. than anything we had
put into Postal before.
Copy !req
1580. There's gonna be
a really big team working on it.
Copy !req
1581. They're gonna put their, they're gonna
start their own development studio for it,
Copy !req
1582. which they did, which was Trashmasters.
Copy !req
1583. Vision or the scope for PIII,
Copy !req
1584. rival the GTA universe, so to say,
Copy !req
1585. was really huge, was super ambitious.
Copy !req
1586. It was about to cover consoles,
PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360.
Copy !req
1587. Make a totally new chapter
in that universe,
Copy !req
1588. not just an add-on to the existing one,
but, like— let's think bigger.
Copy !req
1589. We had great coordination
and we had a, a lot of mutual respect.
Copy !req
1590. - One of our key guys went and spent…
Copy !req
1591. …about two, three months in Moscow.
Copy !req
1592. So he was in the office
every day there to help
Copy !req
1593. with the fine-tuning to make sure
Copy !req
1594. that the project was
getting off on the right foot
Copy !req
1595. in terms of keeping it on track
as to how we wanted it.
Copy !req
1596. The game was starting
to shape up pretty cool,
Copy !req
1597. like, you can actually find old videos
of the original Postal III stuff
Copy !req
1598. - and it was pretty well done.
Copy !req
1599. Basically, the Postal Dude
blew up his town of Paradise
Copy !req
1600. at the end of Postal 2:
Apocalypse Weekend,
Copy !req
1601. and he's moved up the road
to a town called Catharsis, Arizona.
Copy !req
1602. This time around,
we're venturing into new territory,
Copy !req
1603. which is the console,
and we're gonna have Xbox 360 and PS3.
Copy !req
1604. We're all psyched. We're having a blast.
Copy !req
1605. It's well-funded.
Copy !req
1606. The people in Russia are great.
Lot of support.
Copy !req
1607. Give me some noise! That's great!
Copy !req
1608. I'm proud to present today Postal III,
Copy !req
1609. a nominee for best console
and best action game of show.
Copy !req
1610. Postal III, we promise
to give you and deliver
Copy !req
1611. to our fans everything they expect.
Copy !req
1612. We're introducing a, a variety,
a cast of celebrities.
Copy !req
1613. We had Ron Jeremy.
Copy !req
1614. We had Jennifer Wolcott,
who was a Playboy Playmate.
Copy !req
1615. Do not f*** this up!
Copy !req
1616. Randy Jones,
who was the original cowboy
Copy !req
1617. from the Village People.
Copy !req
1618. Yeah! Look at this city of Catharsis!
Copy !req
1619. So pretty!
Copy !req
1620. "YMCA"!
Copy !req
1621. I mean, we had him in the game!
Copy !req
1622. All professionals, great creative flow.
Copy !req
1623. I mean, this was great shit.
Copy !req
1624. The creative vision for the game
was super ambitious,
Copy !req
1625. and so the, the business goals
were also super ambitious.
Copy !req
1626. They were like,
"Well, we've got a lot of developers here,
Copy !req
1627. we've got a lot of money."
Copy !req
1628. Everything was great
for the first ten or so months.
Copy !req
1629. Hi, it's Vince with ShamWow—
Copy !req
1630. The buyout comes as fears
of a global financial collapse
Copy !req
1631. threatens some of the world's
biggest financial institutions.
Copy !req
1632. Banks from the US, Japan,
and the European Union have pumped—
Copy !req
1633. The Russian economy has, has definitely
been very hard hit by the global crisis.
Copy !req
1634. Um, and we need a big stimulus package.
Copy !req
1635. We need to save jobs,
we need to keep people in their homes
Copy !req
1636. - and so forth—
Copy !req
1637. And I'm sure all of you are familiar with,
uh, the economy tanking.
Copy !req
1638. Akella started experiencing
financial difficulties,
Copy !req
1639. as simply as that.
Copy !req
1640. My car was out of gas,
Copy !req
1641. unfortunately,
due to the global economic meltdown.
Copy !req
1642. You remember the global economic meltdown?
Copy !req
1643. The Russian economy,
which is, like, completely oil-based,
Copy !req
1644. took a bigger hit than most economies did.
Copy !req
1645. The piracy industry in Russia is huge.
Copy !req
1646. I mean, like, there were
video game stores all over the place
Copy !req
1647. and you couldn't discern
the pirate stores from the real stores.
Copy !req
1648. Like, there'd be, like,
the actual pirate storefront,
Copy !req
1649. and then there'd be, like,
sort of the GameStop right next door.
Copy !req
1650. It became very easy for a,
a struggling economy
Copy !req
1651. to go from the $3-5 store
to the $1-3 store next door.
Copy !req
1652. So all the sales started dropping
Copy !req
1653. and the publishers started
just losing money hand over fist.
Copy !req
1654. And therefore,
we started experiencing difficulties
Copy !req
1655. with simply funding the game.
Copy !req
1656. Around, exactly around
the end of the pre-production phase,
Copy !req
1657. instead of hiring more people,
Copy !req
1658. I actually had to lay off about
one-third of the people on a single day.
Copy !req
1659. You're fired!
Copy !req
1660. So now, the project started
to get diluted in terms of talent.
Copy !req
1661. The developers there
weren't getting paid very much money.
Copy !req
1662. I mean, the highest salaries
were, were laughable compared to ours.
Copy !req
1663. And there was other industries
in Russia which were taking
Copy !req
1664. very different trajectories at the time,
Copy !req
1665. like, the banking industry
was on its way up.
Copy !req
1666. And so all these high-level developers
at Akella started to leave.
Copy !req
1667. All the programmers left,
Copy !req
1668. and then all the artists
slowly started leaving.
Copy !req
1669. And, you know,
Akella had hundreds of employees
Copy !req
1670. and so, they would just swap out.
Copy !req
1671. As people leave,
they would just move somebody else over.
Copy !req
1672. Originally, it was the A-Team
and it was this high-quality team.
Copy !req
1673. I mean, I can't promise you that the game
Copy !req
1674. that they would've released
would have been amazing,
Copy !req
1675. but it would've been better
than what came out.
Copy !req
1676. And the A-Team then became the B-team.
Copy !req
1677. - Everybody sort of swapped out one by one.
Copy !req
1678. Hello. Anyone home?
Copy !req
1679. I'm here about the temp job.
Copy !req
1680. They were publishing the game
and they were funding the game,
Copy !req
1681. so we had to basically
get rid of our developers too
Copy !req
1682. 'cause they were paying our team.
Copy !req
1683. The project itself started
being underfunded
Copy !req
1684. and that was leading
to compromises here and there.
Copy !req
1685. In the end, I think it, it was just
way too many compromises.
Copy !req
1686. Oh, shit! Now there's no one left
to give me my money. F***!
Copy !req
1687. It's, it's probably time
to just kill this project.
Copy !req
1688. And no, they wouldn't do it.
I mean, they had sunk
Copy !req
1689. a couple million dollars
into it at that point.
Copy !req
1690. What the hell is going on here?
Like, why are you—
Copy !req
1691. We're not really gonna
publish this, are we?
Copy !req
1692. And the answer is, "Yes, they are."
Copy !req
1693. The fact of the matter is they had, uh,
Copy !req
1694. our balls by the, the Russian bear hands!
Copy !req
1695. I wouldn't say they were close to done,
but they were pretty damn close.
Copy !req
1696. And so, I, I guess I understand
not wanting to cut your losses
Copy !req
1697. when your losses
are a couple million dollars
Copy !req
1698. and your company's falling down the drain
because of the economy, so…
Copy !req
1699. To me, it's clear that
that was the beginning
Copy !req
1700. of a unfortunate decline of Akella
Copy !req
1701. and ended up basically with Akella filing
for bankruptcy some years later.
Copy !req
1702. I don't remember how long
it was in hiatus for,
Copy !req
1703. but it was in hiatus for a while.
Copy !req
1704. We were trying to pull it out
Copy !req
1705. and, uh, trying to b— do the best we can
to actually make it happen.
Copy !req
1706. Because as the project disintegrated,
Copy !req
1707. we weren't even seeing the development,
the project anymore.
Copy !req
1708. I mean, the truth of the matter is,
by the time the project was coming out,
Copy !req
1709. we hadn't seen it
in maybe six plus months.
Copy !req
1710. We kind of felt bittersweet that,
Copy !req
1711. "Yeah, look, it's not gonna be the, uh,
Copy !req
1712. the game we were envisioning
in the beginning,
Copy !req
1713. not, not by any means.
We're gonna get some criticism."
Copy !req
1714. But on the other hand,
it was like, "Oh God, that's—"
Copy !req
1715. The, the relief feeling
for the time being was prevailing.
Copy !req
1716. Like, "Finally it's over."
Copy !req
1717. You know, I guess the, the directive was
Copy !req
1718. not make the game good…
so it'll do well.
Copy !req
1719. - "Finish the game so we can sell it."
This game sucks.
Copy !req
1720. We still had to sell the project,
like, we didn't,
Copy !req
1721. we didn't come out of the gate going,
Copy !req
1722. "This game sucks,
we have nothing to do with it."
Copy !req
1723. You know, we're like, "Okay,
they're gonna release something buggy,
Copy !req
1724. but they're gonna fix it.
Like, they spent a lot of money here.
Copy !req
1725. They wanna make sure this game has legs."
Copy !req
1726. So we packaged up the game here.
Copy !req
1727. We actually created
a physical Postal III edition.
Copy !req
1728. We sold a lot of units,
but they were fucking broken.
Copy !req
1729. I mean, people fucking bought the game
and it didn't even boot up.
Copy !req
1730. Now how's that for a bug?
Copy !req
1731. You know, it's almost a running joke
Copy !req
1732. how many people
actually played Postal III.
Copy !req
1733. I remember having copies
to give out to people, which we did.
Copy !req
1734. I think if you asked
the number of Postal fans,
Copy !req
1735. "How many of you
have actually played it?",
Copy !req
1736. it would be interesting.
Copy !req
1737. To say the least.
Copy !req
1738. Akella had given us the installer disks…
Copy !req
1739. - …and the first installer they gave me
Copy !req
1740. just didn't work
and they had to get me a new one,
Copy !req
1741. which is fine. It happens.
Copy !req
1742. Maybe if I had tested it better
before I shipped it off
Copy !req
1743. to the replicator,
this wouldn't have happened.
Copy !req
1744. - But it was just like I said, it was…
Copy !req
1745. - …another layer in the shit sandwich.
Copy !req
1746. - And on top of that, the game was broken
Copy !req
1747. and people were reporting to me
the game was broken…
Copy !req
1748. - …and all I can do is tell them,
Copy !req
1749. because I don't have a team of guys
that can fix it, "It's not my game."
Copy !req
1750. But we're selling it.
It's got our name on it.
Copy !req
1751. - So at the end of the day…
Copy !req
1752. - …the hate comes back to us.
Copy !req
1753. - They put out this patch
Copy !req
1754. a couple of days after the game launched,
it stopped the game from crashing…
Copy !req
1755. in the opening level.
Copy !req
1756. I, I remember, I'll be honest,
I was disappointed.
Copy !req
1757. It was almost like a bunch
of Saturday Night Live sketches
Copy !req
1758. in terms of segments thrown together
Copy !req
1759. that didn't have a clear narrative
behind them and that was,
Copy !req
1760. that is not the hallmark of how
the Running With Scissors games go.
Copy !req
1761. The criticism we got from fans directly,
I also believe is absolutely fair.
Copy !req
1762. This is not fun.
It's a f****** chore to play it
Copy !req
1763. and it pisses me off
that this game is this bad.
Copy !req
1764. This, I cannot be nice about this.
This thing f****** sucks.
Copy !req
1765. People didn't like
that it was third person.
Copy !req
1766. People did not like
the art style that we went with.
Copy !req
1767. People didn't like the new voice.
Copy !req
1768. It was, there was too much emotion.
It wasn't serious enough.
Copy !req
1769. It just, it just wasn't Rick,
Copy !req
1770. and that's who they had listened to
for so many years.
Copy !req
1771. And, like, just this is the way it is.
Copy !req
1772. Like Corey is the Dude now.
Copy !req
1773. And it's probably
the brightest spot in the game.
Copy !req
1774. He did a really good job.
Copy !req
1775. I'm gonna need some money if I hope
to get anything done in this town.
Copy !req
1776. Maybe there's some easy work
to be found around here.
Copy !req
1777. It seemed mostly to me
on the first phone call,
Copy !req
1778. that he was pretty sold on
the tone of my voice,
Copy !req
1779. the, uh, the approach, the ability
for me to emote in that manner.
Copy !req
1780. And… as the Dude character,
Copy !req
1781. it's got to be something semi badass,
Copy !req
1782. - rebellious, angry.
Copy !req
1783. I honestly don't think
I was able to do a full review of it
Copy !req
1784. because it kept breaking on me
and I was not able to get through it.
Copy !req
1785. I can't take a game
that's breaking left, right, and center,
Copy !req
1786. and go out and tell people,
"Yeah, this is great. Go and play it."
Copy !req
1787. Vince and me
had to figure out what to do.
Copy !req
1788. And, and the real answer
was we have to, like,
Copy !req
1789. publicly denounce this project.
Copy !req
1790. Are we going to disassociate ourselves
from Postal III?
Copy !req
1791. Yes.
Copy !req
1792. We decided the best thing we could do
Copy !req
1793. was to cut that cancer
Copy !req
1794. out of our ass.
Copy !req
1795. This could kill our brand.
Copy !req
1796. I mean, and it, it probably would've
if we didn't do anything about it.
Copy !req
1797. If we had stood by and been, like,
"No, no, no, no, no.
Copy !req
1798. We understand that there's problems."
But there was no way to do that.
Copy !req
1799. Like, there was no team to contact.
Copy !req
1800. The people that
we've been friends with for,
Copy !req
1801. I don't know, at this point, six years,
Copy !req
1802. they've been our publisher, seven years,
and they've been very good to us,
Copy !req
1803. they were basically out of business.
Copy !req
1804. Working on Postal III itself,
like, as a whole experience
Copy !req
1805. is something
which I would never trade off,
Copy !req
1806. even though not everything went perfect,
Copy !req
1807. - it was a great experience.
Copy !req
1808. Uh, I made a lot of good friends.
Copy !req
1809. Everybody should be, like,
praying to have such an experience,
Copy !req
1810. because it gives you, like,
Copy !req
1811. a very deep understanding
of a lot of things.
Copy !req
1812. If you're a, a chef,
you want somebody eating your food.
Copy !req
1813. If your— if you make a game, you want
to know that people are playing it!
Copy !req
1814. Well, when you devote two,
three years of your life
Copy !req
1815. and the game don't come out,
or even worse,
Copy !req
1816. it fucking comes out
and it don't even play!
Copy !req
1817. And that's your credit?
Copy !req
1818. That's horrible.
Copy !req
1819. Postal III, thank God, it ended.
Copy !req
1820. But the good news is
it made the way for Postal 4.
Copy !req
1821. I think if you look at everything
that technology has brought
Copy !req
1822. and it's brought some
incredibly wonderful things.
Copy !req
1823. On the most part, I think, technology,
it's brought a lot of damage to sociality.
Copy !req
1824. You have a generation of people
who really don't know
Copy !req
1825. how to speak in public to each other.
Copy !req
1826. But it's not a question
of what some 60-year-old man thinks.
Copy !req
1827. It's a question of where things are going.
Copy !req
1828. - With all the holes in the system,
Copy !req
1829. it wouldn't make sense
to look at Running With Scissors
Copy !req
1830. and say, "Well, you're completely guilty,"
Copy !req
1831. when they, when they followed
every regulation,
Copy !req
1832. when they did everything,
they were asked to do.
Copy !req
1833. In the end, like it or not,
Copy !req
1834. kids are gonna decide
what they're gonna play.
Copy !req
1835. So you get pictures
of Mike J.'s on ice skates
Copy !req
1836. and you get me cleaning my pool.
Copy !req
1837. Exactly.
Copy !req
1838. Would you say that there's
some sort of Postal curse or do you…
Copy !req
1839. - …feel like there's
Copy !req
1840. - some lingering bad juju sometimes?
- Uh…
Copy !req
1841. I'm not a big believer in curses.
Copy !req
1842. It, it almost seems
like no matter what we do,
Copy !req
1843. no matter where we go,
there's something working against us.
Copy !req
1844. And I don't think
there is, like, an entity
Copy !req
1845. operating on the planet Earth,
that's, like,
Copy !req
1846. "How can we fuck over
Running With Scissors the best?"
Copy !req
1847. There aren't many games
that have had FBI involvement,
Copy !req
1848. being sued by the government,
Copy !req
1849. condemned in a dozen countries,
etcetera, etcetera.
Copy !req
1850. So that probably does
single us out in some way.
Copy !req
1851. Sometimes, I say to myself
when I'm watching, like, a video
Copy !req
1852. where I'm, like, "Oh, Postal
will probably be in this video,"
Copy !req
1853. where it's talking about, like,
significant games in history.
Copy !req
1854. And then, at the end I'm like,
"Ah! It wasn't in there.
Copy !req
1855. I don't know why
I expected it to be in there."
Copy !req
1856. But then, like,
you watch a bottom-ten video,
Copy !req
1857. we're definitely gonna be
in there.
Copy !req
1858. I mean, that's okay.
Copy !req
1859. I mean, that's, like I said, I mean,
I've, I have no problem with the fact
Copy !req
1860. that that's where we,
that's where we, uh, we live. You know?
Copy !req
1861. We're, we're gutter trolls, man.
Copy !req
1862. Come on.
Copy !req
1863. Here we are, 25 years later,
uh, with Postal 4.
Copy !req
1864. Pretty f— pretty fantastic.
Copy !req
1865. I mean, I'm super proud of it.
Copy !req
1866. It's, it's pretty mind-blowing
when you consider
Copy !req
1867. all the shit we've been through.
Copy !req
1868. This was after my NPC series
had really started to gain traction.
Copy !req
1869. I decided, you know,
"Maybe I should start imitating
Copy !req
1870. uh, NPCs from different games."
I did, like, a petition one.
Copy !req
1871. Would you like to sign my petition?
Copy !req
1872. No way, you freakin' pinko!
Copy !req
1873. When I posted that to Twitter,
Copy !req
1874. uh, I got the attention
of Running With Scissors pretty quickly.
Copy !req
1875. They retweeted it,
they ended up following me back.
Copy !req
1876. Eventually, I was talking
to Mike J. himself and I told him,
Copy !req
1877. "Hey, uh, I actually work
in the game industry and I'm a 3D artist."
Copy !req
1878. And he was like,
"Oh, well, let's see your portfolio."
Copy !req
1879. And I showed, and he's like, "Shit!"
Copy !req
1880. Pretty much got hired on the spot.
Copy !req
1881. Maybe we should put that one
on the, on the store site.
Copy !req
1882. We'll see, what I have to do is
I have to sign this
Copy !req
1883. and the disc and the cover
because I'm 60, diabetic, and asthmatic.
Copy !req
1884. I could die any time now,
and it's worth three times
Copy !req
1885. as much on eBay if I sign all the parts.
Copy !req
1886. I got an email one day from,
uh, a guy named Michael.
Copy !req
1887. So he sent me clips of the original actors
and I did sort of an imitation of them.
Copy !req
1888. And he said,
"No, that's, that's not what we want.
Copy !req
1889. We're looking for a really snarky voice."
Copy !req
1890. And I went, "Well, pff!
That's my natural voice.
Copy !req
1891. I'm snarky as hell.
You should just use my normal voice."
Copy !req
1892. Looks like Champ's
found something of interest.
Copy !req
1893. Yeah. Okay.
Copy !req
1894. And about a day later,
I get, uh, an email from Mike
Copy !req
1895. saying, "Oh, yeah, you're snarky.
You got the part."
Copy !req
1896. Dammit, Champ,
I thought you were guarding the car.
Copy !req
1897. - Figures.
- I remember looking it up
Copy !req
1898. 'cause I was like,
"Okay, like, sounds cool."
Copy !req
1899. But, like, you know,
I just wanted to make sure, like,
Copy !req
1900. if you're gonna put your name in something
and be represented in it,
Copy !req
1901. like, is this something that,
you know, aligns
Copy !req
1902. with, like, my brand and is,
you know, not, like—
Copy !req
1903. I want to make sure it wasn't,
like, problematic or something.
Copy !req
1904. So I look it up…
and it was— the first article was, like,
Copy !req
1905. - someone just railing against it…
Copy !req
1906. …like, "This is the most offensive thing
I've ever seen."
Copy !req
1907. "Oh, God! Like,
maybe this is not something I want to do."
Copy !req
1908. But then I looked into it and I was like,
"Wait, this is hilarious."
Copy !req
1909. And also so on brand. I was like,
Copy !req
1910. "Okay, this kind of seems
like it's up my alley."
Copy !req
1911. You know,
I like to down-talk what we do.
Copy !req
1912. I don't like to pretend, like,
we have something bigger than we do,
Copy !req
1913. but it is culturally significant.
Copy !req
1914. Um, there are a lot of people that know
what it is, and I've said it before,
Copy !req
1915. it's, it is super weird to me
Copy !req
1916. when people know the thing
that I do and, and it's odd.
Copy !req
1917. It's odd being, um, I'll call it…
a footnote,
Copy !req
1918. a footnote of gaming history.
Copy !req
1919. I think I miss that Postal III now.
Copy !req
1920. I think I miss that Postal 2…
Copy !req
1921. Man, I have at least
over 300 hours on Postal 2.
Copy !req
1922. I've been playing for so long
Copy !req
1923. and it's, like, just a game that,
if I'm feeling down
Copy !req
1924. and, you know,
I want to pop some heads in real life.
Copy !req
1925. I'll just go onto Postal 2
and I pop some heads in the game.
Copy !req
1926. I'm in Boston at PAX East.
Copy !req
1927. Great people all around us,
thousands of gamers, super fans.
Copy !req
1928. One of the crazy things about this show
Copy !req
1929. is we got this thing going
around the world called the coronavirus,
Copy !req
1930. and we're showcasing Postal 4.
Copy !req
1931. It feels exactly like Postal.
Copy !req
1932. It, it just, it's,
it's just as outrageous.
Copy !req
1933. You can still piss on people.
You can set people on fire,
Copy !req
1934. and just cause absolute mayhem
for no reason at all.
Copy !req
1935. It's awesome. Especially
because I like Postal 2 so much.
Copy !req
1936. This one reminds me so much of it.
Copy !req
1937. I think it's gonna be
a blast when you guys finish.
Copy !req
1938. What happens when Postal 4 releases?
Copy !req
1939. And really, by extension,
Copy !req
1940. what does success look like
for Running With Scissors?
Copy !req
1941. Is it Postal 4 making a lot of money?
Copy !req
1942. Is it Postal 4 finally getting the reviews
Copy !req
1943. that Mike and Desi have felt
like they've deserved all these years?
Copy !req
1944. Having, having that victory over
everyone that gave them
Copy !req
1945. ones and zeros by finally
making a, a good game?
Copy !req
1946. Is it, is it just getting Postal 4 out
after releasing Postal III?
Copy !req
1947. That is essentially so bad
it's vaporware now.
Copy !req
1948. Like, that game is so bad
it doesn't exist.
Copy !req
1949. I, I don't think
that Running With Scissors is,
Copy !req
1950. uh, is going to survive on controversy.
Copy !req
1951. I think they're going to survive
on making great games,
Copy !req
1952. which is a bit in contrast
to the early days
Copy !req
1953. where Running With Scissors
pretty much got known everywhere
Copy !req
1954. because of controversy.
Copy !req
1955. So I think when people not our age,
when, when they play these games, uh,
Copy !req
1956. they are playing them
because they're great games.
Copy !req
1957. Running With Scissors'
reputation was that of a,
Copy !req
1958. of an independent developer
trying to, uh, get their game noticed.
Copy !req
1959. And, uh, one of the ways
to get your game noticed is to be extreme.
Copy !req
1960. And, uh, while some
of the larger publishers probably thought
Copy !req
1961. that Running With Scissors
was a pain in the ass,
Copy !req
1962. uh, independent developers
and publishers thought
Copy !req
1963. that they were doing, uh,
they were kicking ass and taking names,
Copy !req
1964. and, you know, fighting
for every inch that they could get.
Copy !req
1965. I liked how it was,
like, naughty to play.
Copy !req
1966. And it was, it was this,
Copy !req
1967. this thing that everybody
was back lashing against.
Copy !req
1968. And it was so ridiculous and silly.
Copy !req
1969. And the humor was fun and, and juvenile.
Copy !req
1970. But it, like— I— it, it felt
like a release in many ways
Copy !req
1971. because you—
it's fun to be able to be juvenile
Copy !req
1972. and, and it's fun to be, you know, non-PC
Copy !req
1973. and really see the way that they,
they play into that comedy.
Copy !req
1974. I would say that it is absolutely fair
Copy !req
1975. that Running With Scissors
was made a poster child
Copy !req
1976. for video game violence
because they actively courted it.
Copy !req
1977. They got exactly what they wanted.
Copy !req
1978. They wanted to, uh, be regressive,
Copy !req
1979. outlandish and controversial,
and they achieved that.
Copy !req
1980. It's a little different,
I mean, uh, we're just
Copy !req
1981. again, just renting a, a room
in somebody else's business.
Copy !req
1982. This time we're inside
of an Allstate agency.
Copy !req
1983. But I arranged it the same.
Copy !req
1984. So there's, like,
no culture shock for anybody,
Copy !req
1985. even though I'm the only one
that really works here.
Copy !req
1986. Glad they enjoy the game, you know?
Copy !req
1987. And it, it seems kind of weird
that so many people actually, you know,
Copy !req
1988. are into this game like they are.
Copy !req
1989. But, um, I would just say, you know,
thanks for, uh, playing along.
Copy !req
1990. I don't think I could ever give
enough credit to our fans.
Copy !req
1991. I see our fans as part of our family.
Copy !req
1992. And it's why we do what we do.
Copy !req
1993. The fan community for Postal 4 is amazing.
Copy !req
1994. It's, it's different
than any other fan community I've seen.
Copy !req
1995. These fans are extremely passionate.
They're also very honest with us.
Copy !req
1996. They tell us what they like,
what they don't like.
Copy !req
1997. We, we make this game for us,
but we make it for them as well.
Copy !req
1998. Playing Postal ha— has helped me through,
uh, some difficult times in my life.
Copy !req
1999. Postal has changed my life for the better.
Copy !req
2000. I used to be really quiet
and introverted and stuff like that.
Copy !req
2001. And this, this game has actually
helped me pull out of that.
Copy !req
2002. You know, if you, you know,
that, that game you play
Copy !req
2003. when you're feeling,
like, um, like, stressed,
Copy !req
2004. you just want to kind of relax, that,
that's the game series for me.
Copy !req
2005. Good job on not following the trends.
Copy !req
2006. Good job on making a unique game,
one that stands out.
Copy !req
2007. One that isn't afraid
to do things its own way,
Copy !req
2008. to be controversial,
to be crazy and be funny.
Copy !req
2009. Running With Scissors, Vince, Mike,
thank you for inspiring me so damn much.
Copy !req
2010. Thank you very much, Vince.
Copy !req
2011. Tha— thank you very much, Mike.
You have been terrific.
Copy !req
2012. I mean, you made my childhood
a whole lot more,
Copy !req
2013. uh, exciting you could say.
Copy !req
2014. The whole Postal series for me
has been very inspirational.
Copy !req
2015. I think what they have put together
over all these years
Copy !req
2016. has definitely been something
that the world would have
Copy !req
2017. definitely been missing out
if they didn't have it.
Copy !req
2018. It's definitely a game
made by misfits for misfits,
Copy !req
2019. and I consider myself a misfit.
Copy !req
2020. It's, it's never gonna win awards.
Copy !req
2021. And that's okay
because it doesn't need to.
Copy !req
2022. It's just one of those games
where you pop it on
Copy !req
2023. and you just, you just have some fun
Copy !req
2024. being a irredeemable piece of shit
in a virtual world,
Copy !req
2025. and then you can
go to sleep soundly, you know?
Copy !req
2026. Postal is one
of my favorite games from my childhood.
Copy !req
2027. And my brain exploded
Copy !req
2028. the first time playing it.
Copy !req
2029. In terms of how Postal
Copy !req
2030. has impacted my life,
Copy !req
2031. it's gotten me through tough points
in my life where I needed it most,
Copy !req
2032. where I needed to vent out
my frustrations,
Copy !req
2033. where I needed a good laugh,
where I just wanted to have fun
Copy !req
2034. and just, you know,
forget about my problems,
Copy !req
2035. even just for, like, an evening or a day.
Copy !req
2036. I think it's one
of the most important games
Copy !req
2037. that I didn't want,
but I didn't know I needed.
Copy !req
2038. And now, we've become
an important part in people's lives.
Copy !req
2039. The fans are Running With Scissors family.
Copy !req
2040. I really can't even put that
in words or describe what it means
Copy !req
2041. or how it feels, other than
"really fucking cool."
Copy !req
2042. I think if there's one redemption arc here
for Running With Scissors
Copy !req
2043. and the story
of what they've been through,
Copy !req
2044. it's that they've been through it.
Copy !req
2045. Postal 4 is coming out.
Copy !req
2046. That's a win. That's just a victory.
Copy !req
2047. I got to see those guys
when they barely had the lights on,
Copy !req
2048. and they were individually responding
to people for years,
Copy !req
2049. making good on a game
they didn't make in Postal III
Copy !req
2050. and just responding
to everyone for so long.
Copy !req
2051. I, I think that that's genuinely charming
Copy !req
2052. and equally the only reason
they're still here.
Copy !req
2053. They built a community
Copy !req
2054. by just being normal people
to absolutely everyone.
Copy !req
2055. They're accessible, they're real,
Copy !req
2056. and they genuinely
give a shit about people.
Copy !req
2057. You just don't find that
in the rest of this industry.
Copy !req
2058. I came into the industry a huge gamer.
Copy !req
2059. I wasn't necessarily planning
Copy !req
2060. for this to be my career
for the rest of my life.
Copy !req
2061. You know, I was a cell phone salesman.
That's what I did.
Copy !req
2062. I met Vince in passing in high school
because I went to school with his kid.
Copy !req
2063. And then when I,
when he asked me to come work for him,
Copy !req
2064. I was like, "Yeah!
This should be a cool couple of years
Copy !req
2065. traveling around,
promoting this video game."
Copy !req
2066. And now, it's my life.
Copy !req
2067. Clearly, Mike's personality
is what shined through.
Copy !req
2068. And Vince's personality.
These guys are both,
Copy !req
2069. they're like walking,
breathing South Park characters.
Copy !req
2070. That ultimately culminates
in what the Postal Dude is.
Copy !req
2071. They're both such
sardonic people.
Copy !req
2072. And to have that translate into a game,
to have your personality
Copy !req
2073. really come through in your art,
period, no matter what it is,
Copy !req
2074. but specifically, in Postal,
is a beautiful thing.
Copy !req
2075. It's really easy to look at,
at Postal and the guys behind it
Copy !req
2076. and all of the times that
they have just fallen on their face
Copy !req
2077. over the years and,
and point and laugh at that.
Copy !req
2078. Or to point and judge it, or to,
to look at what they were even
Copy !req
2079. trying to do in the first place
and be like,
Copy !req
2080. "This sucks. This feels bad.
This has bad intentionality.
Copy !req
2081. These are maybe bad people by extension."
Copy !req
2082. I, I think that the story
of Running With Scissors
Copy !req
2083. is that these are a couple of guys
just trying their best,
Copy !req
2084. and their hope and dream
was to do something
Copy !req
2085. that makes people happy
Copy !req
2086. and they just keep coming back to it
Copy !req
2087. no matter how many times
they lose and lose big.
Copy !req
2088. I don't know anyone else
that has that tenacity.
Copy !req
2089. They just keep coming back to the table.
Copy !req
2090. They keep trying to make
the same IP over and over again.
Copy !req
2091. They are literally
the definition of insanity,
Copy !req
2092. and there is something
so joyful and singular about that.
Copy !req
2093. No other game studio in the world
has gone bankrupt…
Copy !req
2094. as many times
as Running With Scissors,
Copy !req
2095. and then they just keep coming back
and saying, "Let's make more Postal."
Copy !req
2096. And I wish that there was more people
Copy !req
2097. this broken…
Copy !req
2098. …or, or happy with what they're doing
Copy !req
2099. or kind enough to be supported
by all of these folks.
Copy !req
2100. It's weird to say
that it would be a better world
Copy !req
2101. if there were more people
like Vince and Mike.
Copy !req
2102. But it's, it's true,
and games would be better for it.
Copy !req
2103. It is cool to see it happen.
Copy !req
2104. I'm glad we're still around
to make this dumb shit
Copy !req
2105. that people can laugh at, so…
Copy !req
2106. Final thoughts…
Copy !req
2107. …like last rites.
Copy !req
2108. To me, it's very simple.
Copy !req
2109. Have fun.
Copy !req
2110. Enjoy your life.
Copy !req
2111. Love your family and friends.
Copy !req
2112. Play Postal.
Copy !req
2113. Have a blast.
Copy !req
2114. And regret nothing.
Copy !req