Family Fundamentals (2002)

1. For my film 'Licensed to Kill,'

2. I met with murderers of gay men to find out what lead them to

3. their crimes.

4. Some blamed it on their Christian backgrounds,

5. and how they were brought up.

6. They explained how their attitudes about homosexuality

7. were shaped by what they learned from both Church leaders,

8. and parents.

9. Over the years, I've been intrigued by family situations

10. where parents have a history of actively opposing gay

11. rights, despite having gay kids themselves.

12. - We should not recognize same sex marriage

13. because that is a significant departure in public policy,

14. that's a significant departure in what we define as a marriage,

15. and I think it degrades from the sanctity of marriage.

16. I read about people like Sonny and Cher's daughter,

17. Chasity, whose father served in Congress,

18. and fought against gay marriages...

19. and conservative activist, Phyllis Schlafy,

20. whose son came out as gay in 1992...

21. and Mary Cheney, daughter of Vice President, Dick Cheney.

22. As I researched other families, the Bible often came up as a

23. point of reference.

24. This reminded me of my work on 'Licensed to Kill.'

25. So I decided to focus this film on three stories that all have

26. one thing in common:

27. a conservative Christian foundation that condemns

28. homosexuality.

29. I wanted to find out what happens when parents believe

30. that their own kids represent the very element that will lead

31. to the end of the human race.

32. This is the way they look right now.

33. - Susan and David? - Uh-huh.

34. That's her son.

35. And he's gay?

36. Yeah.

37. Is that a whole other story?

38. - Yeah.

39. Yeah, it sure is.

40. Gotta go.

41. Oh, this is my office.

42. My office is in shambles.

43. I gotta put something here.

44. Is this pretty much where all your organizing happens?

45. - Yeah, I answer e-mails here, and I do write here.

46. Right now, I was looking for something,

47. so everything right now is kind of tumbled around.

48. No, no, no.

49. That's Maxie, our new baby.

50. He is quite a little protector.

51. What kind of mail do you get?

52. - I get letters from mothers and parents...

53. from all over the country.

54. Sometimes all over the world, different places in the world.

55. They are hurt... and angry, and upset,

56. asking for help as to what do they do,

57. how do they talk talk to their families?

58. What are you bringing me here?

59. Well, I just thought, you might care to note that...

60. I'm not sure I can read it on camera.

61. What's it say?

62. - "Award of Excellence presented to Kathleen Bremner for

63. Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Religion

64. in the year 1998,

65. presented to her by Vision International University."

66. - How this all came about?

67. Well, I have to go back and talk about how I learned about Susan.

68. I received a phone call from my daughter.

69. I thought, "This is wonderful!

70. My daughter is calling me to have a Valentine's lunch."

71. She seemed to be kind of flustered,

72. and she sat down and she said, "Well,

73. Mom, there's something I've been meaning to tell you."

74. And I said, "What's that?"

75. And she said, "I'm a lesbian."

76. I said, "But Susan," I said, "you're a Christian."

77. I start quoting the Bible, verses,

78. things that would come to my head that absolutely made no

79. sense as to her situation.

80. But I said that, and she said, "Well, I've got to go,

81. I've got go, and I— I can't really stay,"

82. and she got up and walked off, and I sat there absolutely

83. stunned.

84. That's a picture of our wedding.

85. David's father, myself.

86. So you were once straight?

87. Well, I think I was always gay,

88. but tried to be straight.

89. Gave it the good old college try.

90. After the accidental death of her first

91. husband, Susan married a missionary,

92. and devoted her life to the church in order to both follow

93. her Christian upbringing, and to also suppress the lesbian

94. feelings she knew she always had.

95. She eventually divorced her second husband,

96. and took an interest in local politics.

97. Susan finally came out at age 39.

98. - I was just at a point in my life where I was sitting

99. having a beer one day, and I thought,

100. "You know, this is really...

101. almost an obligation of mine.

102. I'm silently being in the closet,

103. meeting with people, talking with people,

104. interacting with people that influence public policy every

105. day, enact laws, etcetera."

106. I almost felt a responsibility to come out.

107. You ever think of fighting... your mom?

108. - Well, I never dreamed in a million years I would be

109. fighting my mom.

110. You know, it did happen.

111. A certain fundamentalist preacher starting bringing his

112. flock into Hillcrest in San Diego.

113. Although my mother wasn't a member of that church,

114. I was hoping that maybe reaching across that I could get her,

115. and some other of her Christian friends to intercede because I

116. feared that there was going to be some violence.

117. - Hey, put this on film.

118. So we ended having a big fight.

119. It was something like "Why do you always have to take up these

120. causes, these— these causes?

121. You know, stay away from it, stay out of it."

122. - Just plain hurt.

123. I hurt.

124. I can't— I blame myself.

125. I thought I was wrong.

126. What on Earth— the first things that came into my head was

127. "Why?

128. What did I do?"

129. Then it was the feeling of hurt and pain

130. began to, um, develop into an anger.

131. When you learn that your son or your daughter has gone into this

132. kind of behavior, the first thing you think of is,

133. "I'm alone.

134. There's nobody else who could possibly be going through

135. what I'm going through."

136. So through our meetings, through my meetings,

137. I became healed by helping others.

138. I was blaming myself, she was blaming herself,

139. I was blaming her, she was blaming me,

140. we were blaming the world, we were blaming everything.

141. - One day, I just fell to my knees in the kitchen of our

142. house, and I asked the Lord to help me,

143. and I remember such a burden being lifted off,

144. and that was the day I accepted the Lord,

145. and He basically said, "You need to give it to me."

146. Amen

147. - The concern that I have about some of homosexuality,

148. as with a lot of addictions, is that there's a community out

149. there that encourages it.

150. If they— if any one of them try to drop out of it,

151. there's a whole bunch of people that want to pull them back in.

152. - It's very difficult for them to leave if they want to

153. leave because where would they go?

154. - Right.

155. - So many churches turn their door in their face,

156. or say "We don't want you there."

157. - I don't think there's anything that bothers me more

158. than to see the picketers out there,

159. telling them they're gonna— you know, that God hates them,

160. and it just— oh, I—

161. - It's a lie!

162. - One of the things that hurt me most is...

163. Nancy handling the whole thing without telling me anything.

164. That because of her— of him, she suffered so much.

165. - The Holy Spirt has helped me to transform my life

166. and not just for people with this—

167. with homosexual feelings because I truly believe

168. that there is no such thing as a homosexual,

169. there's just heterosexuals with homosexual...

170. homosexual issues or identity problems.

171. - Um, a Christian family has the Bible

172. to answer all their questions.

173. And they— you can't misinterpret the Bible.

174. It is what it is...

175. even though some people have tried to.

176. You know they'll take... some information,

177. some scripture, and just twist it around,

178. and change the words and make it come out—

179. you know, and try to make it come out in a way that justifies

180. their feelings.

181. But they can't do that, you can't do that.

182. The Bible is and says that homosexuality is a sin...

183. and it's wrong...

184. and it is not— it's a destructive behavior,

185. it will not bring happiness — it says that very clearly —

186. and it's just wrong.

187. So, you know, you can't— you can't argue with that.

188. That just is the way it is.

189. What's this going-home event?

190. - I am going to go home to my grandma's wedding.

191. But it's the first time that I am going home since I came out

192. to my parents, April of '99.

193. This is kind of a trial.

194. I guess it's just kind of a test to see how it—

195. how it goes this weekend.

196. Just a quick trip with a lot of distractions...

197. plenty of things to keep occupied so that there's not an

198. opportunity for a lot of confrontation.

199. Let's pack.

200. - Yes, let's pack.

201. I have to get my suitcase out of the storage closet.

202. Before coming out to his parents,

203. Brett was ousted from the U.S. Airforce because of the

204. military's policy on gay service members.

205. Although Brett received an honorable discharge,

206. he lost his security clearance and was stripped of all

207. veterans' benefits.

208. - I'm trying to take some of the stuff that my family sent

209. me for Christmas.

210. My mom sent me a couple of ties, and a couple of shirts,

211. and... sometimes she sends stuff for Halloween,

212. and...

213. But it doesn't...

214. I don't know, it doesn't mean as much as it used to.

215. It's kind of hollow.

216. It feels hollow.

217. Oh... underwear.

218. This is going to be an interesting aspect of the trip.

219. This is one of the things that I've been mostly—

220. most worried about, actually.

221. As an adult in the Mormon religion,

222. you make certain commitments...

223. between you and God, and to signify those commitments,

224. you wear, um, clothes that have been...

225. sanctified, holy clothes.

226. These aren't them — Spalding.

227. Being gay is supposed to come with certain benefits.

228. My fashion sense is as straight as can be.

229. I have no fashion sense or taste, I suppose.

230. Okay.

231. Ugh!

232. - I need a drink. - What happened to you?

233. - What happened?

234. Is this a psychological barrier to go in?

235. - I'm sure it is; you know, I was thinking about that.

236. Yeah?

237. - Especially leaving my pants on the shuttle after having to wait

238. for them at the dry cleaners when the dry cleaners was 10

239. minutes late opening.

240. Easter Sunday, 1999.

241. "Dear Brett, I hope things are better for you.

242. You should have received the book I sent on Saturday by now.

243. The author says the problem you think you have is a

244. conditioning, just like alcoholism,

245. stealing, drug addiction, or any other transgression,

246. and that it can be reversed.

247. Satan can twist things and deceive you,

248. and Brett, you've got to recognize that is what has

249. happened.

250. God doesn't make mistake, but Satan would tell you otherwise.

251. Brett, the worst part of my experience,

252. personally and as a bishop, is that of confessing.

253. We are sorry for past mistakes, and we have all made them.

254. Now, we need to correct them and move on,

255. keeping eternal life as our goal.

256. I love you, Brett.

257. Dad."

258. Over the past two years,

259. Brett has received over 100 similar letters from his

260. family.

261. Only through these letters have they discussed his sexuality.

262. The letters remain unanswered.

263. - It's all about the big picture and the next life.

264. They don't think that...

265. anything in this life matters except...

266. what we do to make sure that we are in a good place in the

267. next life.

268. It's just a belief that they have,

269. and you can't argue with that, so it's really hard to try

270. to...

271. change their point-of-view.

272. It's almost as hard as changing my point-of-view.

273. You know?

274. It would be almost as hard for them to accept me as it would

275. for me to be straight.

276. My feelings were really hurt when I came out to them,

277. and they reacted.

278. And I know that a big part of...

279. my not talking to them since then is my lack of

280. forgiveness.

281. And I know that I'm going to have to forgive them...

282. in order for anything to ever change,

283. in order for our relationship to get better.

284. And that's not very easy for me.

285. I'm still dealing with that.

286. - You wanted to know examples of Bob Dornan and I,

287. and what we did together, and every one of these piles is a

288. different event or place in the world that we went to.

289. I don't know if you can see that well enough,

290. but he put a— this scarf on his head

291. and made like he was the Phantom of the Opera or something,

292. but he was like," and want stalking

293. after me and the ambassador going, ","

294. you know, and he was this wild-eyed congressman in Malta.

295. He's a fun guy and we're talking about a total homophobe,

296. or am I just being too harsh?

297. - Oh, well, there are a lot more things in between there, too.

298. He's— you know, he's a father, and an uncle,

299. and a congressman — a former congressman —

300. and a talkshow host, and— and...

301. Did I say "husband?"

302. Friend, mentor, policy-maker, and a bonafide,

303. 100 percent, grade-A homophobe.

304. Sure.

305. But he's many things.

306. You know?

307. So homophobe is unfortunately one of them.

308. - I firmly believe that we'll win the support of many

309. Democrats and Independents,

310. and it will win, for our cause, the great state of California,

311. and I will become— and when I do so,

312. I will become the next President of the United States.

313. Thank you all.

314. - Buttons galore.

315. Political buttons, badges, mostly Republican,

316. but "Got Milk" with Monica.

317. Um, this was the hat I wore for the Millennium March on

318. Washington in April of 2000.

319. That's my little cross.

320. All the colors, you'll notice, are the rainbow colors as well.

321. I had the hat made.

322. Well, okay, it may be obvious to you,

323. but what's all this gay stuff doing with all this Republican

324. stuff?

325. Hello, I'm a gay Republican.

326. So, this is the Austin 12.

327. What'd you say it is?

328. What's that word?

329. "Incongruous?"

330. - Uh... - "Conflicting?"

331. - Uh, no, I don't say that, gay Democrats say that:

332. that it's conflicting, or oxymoronic,

333. or a contradiction in terms.

334. For 20 years, leaders in the gay community,

335. which are— aka, Democrat community,

336. have criticized gay Republicans.

337. You know?

338. Why?

339. They should— you should welcome them into the fold and be glad

340. that they're fighting the good fight within a homophobic

341. national political party.

342. There are people in this room that hate the fact that I'm up

343. here.

344. They're saying "Why are you in a party that doesn't want you?"

345. But where they're confused is that they don't understand that

346. we need to be in a party that doesn't want us

347. if we're going to have any hope of changing it.

348. We change their attitudes by being in their face.

349. - Hey, hey, Brian!

350. I actually want today to say something about you.

351. - When?

352. - Is it you or your money, which is it?

353. - No, it's your good looks!

354. That's what I...

355. I never had an inkling that Brian was gay.

356. Uh, the joke at the time is that, well, Brian,

357. you got a political career— because that's how we knew him.

358. You know, eventually, he was going to run for something.

359. "How about assembly, Brian?

360. How about senate, Brian?

361. How about city council?"

362. But when you're talking to somebody about developing their

363. political career, we, as a politician or political-minded

364. person, we want to develop a package.

365. "Brian!

366. You're getting on and you have no kids!

367. You don't have a wife!

368. You know, if you want X number of more votes,

369. you get a wife!"

370. Well, Brian's an old friend of mine.

371. I've known Brian for more than 10 years.

372. Uh, when I first met Brian, I think he had just started with

373. Bob Dornan or was working for Bob Dornan.

374. The relationship was almost akin to,

375. you know, father-son, very close relationship.

376. Uh, and again, Bob's, I consider, a friend of mine

377. too, and so...

378. you know, they had that very, very close relationship,

379. they were philosophically in sync, and, um, worked very

380. closely to, you know, further what all of us refer to as

381. "the Conservative agenda."

382. We've seen a word created that's phony.

383. I have four years of Latin.

384. There's no such word as "homophobia."

385. Phobia of man?

386. Homo?

387. If they mean "homosexual phobia" or "decadence phobia,"

388. that would be more accurate, but it's not a phobia.

389. It may be an aversion to seeing the collapse of our society,

390. or as Billy Graham put it, "a great nation on the brink of

391. self-destruction."

392. I shall be back with that theme soon.

393. I yield back the balance of my time.

394. I was working for Bob Dornan

395. and working the long hours that I did for him as his Chief

396. of Staff.

397. Um, it gave me great cover.

398. Nancy Reagan at a White House Christmas party

399. he and I went to, but that was the first time that I saw Barney

400. Frank, and his partner, um, and Gerry Studds

401. and his partner, those two members of Congress,

402. with their partners at a White House Christmas party.

403. Um, and of course, Dornan commented on how disgusting he

404. thought that was, and as I always did whenever he did,

405. I pretty much remained silent.

406. So, I was always complicit in silence.

407. In that sense, that part of the mentorship...

408. ran afoul, but in other areas, traveled all over the world,

409. learned stuff that you wouldn't believe in foreign policy,

410. and defense policy, and— and history,

411. and how to deal with the news media,

412. and how to be a public official, and when to fight and when not

413. to fight.

414. I mean, there's so many things that I learned from him

415. that are— that were positive influences on my life.

416. No one's perfect.

417. I'm not excusing anyone's homophobia,

418. um, but I realized I was also homophobic.

419. My church said it was wrong.

420. And everybody has their cross.

421. My cross was an attraction to men.

422. God gave it to me, and He gave it to me to deal with

423. and to beat, and so that I would be rewarded in Heaven.

424. That's what Catholics believe.

425. What is a father relationship?

426. A father relationship is so significant,

427. both to a daughter and to a son.

428. A girl is affirmed by her father

429. how feminine she is by the way he treats her.

430. Second one is, um, if kids find— and this is called "peer

431. pressure," and they can be so unkind.

432. You know that.

433. Everybody— we all have...

434. had things said to us that, you know, they hurt.

435. And if a boy is told "You're a sissy and you walk like a

436. girl and, uh, act like a girl," eventually, he's going to

437. believe it.

438. You know, "There's something wrong with me

439. and maybe, that's— that's what I am.

440. You know?

441. So, I'm gay."

442. And the third thing would be pornography.

443. Pornography is a terrible...

444. Oh, it's like a drug.

445. Number four is a very dysfunctional family.

446. And the last one: the influence of the media today and the

447. influence of, uh...

448. things that the kids read.

449. It's an alternate, uh— alternative behavior,

450. that type of thing, and when you combine all those other four

451. things, connect it with that, you know,

452. there you go.

453. In Susan's case, how did the molestation then be a part

454. of her lesbian's feelings, and how does that translate?

455. - How does it translate?

456. It comes from fear of men...

457. it comes from being violated as a child...

458. What else, you know?

459. She became heavily involved with the gay-lesbian community.

460. - We're not talking about ramming a lifestyle down anybody's

461. throat, we're just simply talking about basic human

462. rights.

463. - It's an interesting thing how a woman who has been

464. violated or raped, she wants to become so powerful,

465. she wants to look like a man, she wants to,

466. um, be stronger than a man and dare a man to even touch her or

467. talk to her.

468. You can just see it, you know?

469. They just...

470. Susan must know how you believe,

471. how you feel. - Absolutely she does.

472. But you've never talked to her about this?

473. - No.

474. Nope.

475. I have invited her to the conferences.

476. There is nothing to talk about.

477. She's involved in a lesbian relationship.

478. I can't do anything about it.

479. I couldn't change her mind.

480. I couldn't change her direction.

481. Even anything I give her— I've sent her books and I've sent her

482. material, but there's no point in talking to her.

483. How does that get reconciled?

484. Or does it?

485. - Uh, let's see, how do I answer this?

486. Um...

487. I have to answer this in a way that— let's think of a little

488. child.

489. I'm just going to say this because...

490. Here, you have a little child about five years old who does

491. something that you know they shouldn't do.

492. But they go ahead and do it anyway.

493. And then that doesn't stop you from loving that child,

494. from feeling— from wanting to, uh,

495. correct them or help them if you can,

496. you know, about something.

497. It doesn't stop you from loving her.

498. You still love that child, even though you know they've been

499. naughty or wrong.

500. And you try again to put that into an adult.

501. And an adult does something that you know is going to hurt them.

502. It hurts you, but you can't stop them,

503. because they have their own free will.

504. She talks about the child molestation,

505. but she forgets the part that had a more significant impact on

506. me as a child, and that was that it was a very violent home.

507. This was a man who beat my mother regularly.

508. My mother doesn't know her daughter or her grandson.

509. She doesn't know either one of us as people...

510. or what we're about.

511. And all of this is all about her,

512. it's not about us, you know?

513. It's what she wants and what she thinks.

514. These sort of groups that she's gotten involved with and Exodus

515. also had a lot to do with her playing out her own feelings of

516. guilt and responsibility somehow or other for her daughter being

517. gay.

518. And if she truly believes this, then,

519. you know, I guess we're going to just have agree to disagree

520. because no matter what she says,

521. she's still my mom.

522. You only have one.

523. I still love her.

524. I don't agree with her and I'm so sorry that she's really the

525. one missing the boat, 'cause she's missed out on 25 years of

526. having a really great relationship with her daughter

527. because she put up the barrier, she put up the walls.

528. Excuse me.

529. You see them out there?

530. - Not, yet.

531. Yup, there's Kyle.

532. Oh my goodness, how they've changed.

533. Wow.

534. Brett's family had agreed to be a part of this

535. documentary, but after one day of shooting,

536. they stopped.

537. I sat down with his parents at their kitchen table,

538. and they said they would reconsider if I made a film that

539. denounced homosexuality and encouraged gay people to change

540. their sexual orientation.

541. I couldn't make that kind of promise.

542. Brett actually thinks that they used the film as a way to get

543. him to come home and never intended on being a part of it

544. anyway.

545. When we got to their house, Brett's mom gave him a haircut

546. — something she had always done when Brett was living at home.

547. Does this all feel familiar?

548. - Hm?

549. Does this feel familiar to you?

550. - Mm-hm.

551. Good familiar or bad familiar?

552. - It's good.

553. Yup, it's been a long time since I've had my hair cut...

554. by Mom.

555. Brett's father cleaned up afterwards.

556. Hi, kitty, kitty.

557. Kitty, kitty, kitty.

558. Woof, woof, woof!

559. I remember building this barn.

560. Blue sky, clouds...

561. so pretty.

562. Brett's ancestors were among the original Mormon

563. settlers of the region in the 1800s.

564. His family has since upheld a leadership role in this insular,

565. religious community.

566. As a bishop, Brett's father is the common judge and presiding

567. high priest of his ward.

568. - That chicken never leaves the garden.

569. It stays there all day and all night.

570. It won't leave.

571. Looking back, I knew I was gay since I was in first grade,

572. when I had a crush on a best friend of mine.

573. When I was 12 or 13, I started...

574. preaching about it in church.

575. Homosexuality, you're in Hell.

576. You got to Hell, period.

577. That's it.

578. Do not pass go, do not collect $200...

579. no get-out-of-jai- free card, just straight to Hell.

580. My father was the one that dispensed the judgement for the

581. church and the punishment for it.

582. September 23rd, 1999.

583. "Dear Brett, I'm sitting on the deck.

584. It's about 6:30, 75 degrees.

585. The mountains are beautiful with all the colors.

586. There are dozens of birds in the trees all singing.

587. Mom's fixing supper.

588. If you were here, it'd be almost perfect.

589. I love you, Brett, and miss you a lot.

590. I'm sending a hug for your birthday.

591. Love, Dad."

592. - Congratulations.

593. So glad I could be here.

594. Coming home reminds me of what I used to have here.

595. And that hurts, so...

596. Seeing my grandma dance the first dance is really moving.

597. The first dance of the reception — you know,

598. the bride and groom — always just reminds me that I can't

599. have it, that I won't have it.

600. I feel like a fly on the wall or a shadow.

601. The red light's flashing.

602. Is it supposed to be blinking?-.

603. - Okay.

604. And the battery's on over here.

605. Does that mean anything?

606. You're being nosy here?

607. - No, I'm trying to change the subject.

608. I don't think they'll be playing much longer anyway.

609. I like to listen to them play.

610. Although Brian had a loving relationship with his

611. birth parents, the Dornan's always considered him an adopted

612. member of their family.

613. While working for Dornan in Washington,

614. Brian lived with his family and called him by the family

615. nickname, "Poppy."

616. He continued to struggle with his homosexuality and kept it a

617. secret.

618. - God always knows what I'm doing,

619. so the religious side of it, He knows,

620. He knows every day what I'm doing and He knows every day

621. what I'm thinking, and I'm going to have to account for it one

622. day.

623. So, uh— so that side is working on me pretty hard.

624. But the political side is the part that I had to deal with

625. more on a daily basis.

626. Um, what happens if I get caught?

627. What does that do to me?

628. What does that do— what scandal does that create for Dornan?

629. You're trying to escape from yourself and you're trying to

630. escape from your own feelings and you can't,

631. and you don't want to.

632. At some point, I said, "I don't want to.

633. Now how do I make it work?"

634. I was at home watching 'Crossfire,'

635. and it was the first time that I saw Andrew Sullivan debate

636. Patrick Buchanan, and Andrew kept saying,

637. "Pat, you don't know your Catholic history."

638. And when he did that, a light bulb went off in my head,

639. and it was like, "Whoa, there must be something here that I

640. don't know."

641. - And is not Cardinal Hickey right when he says

642. "homosexuality is a not a moral lifestyle?"

643. - I respectively disagree.

644. - Is the Vatican homophobic and bigoted as well?

645. In some aspects, yes, they are.

646. - Let me— let me ask— - And I hope to God that

647. eventually they will change—

648. - 2.000 years they've been this way—

649. - Not for 2.000 years, actually.

650. For the last 600— for 1.200 years,

651. they were quite tolerant of gay people.

652. It's only since they became— in the period when they became

653. anti-Semitic and in the period when they became—

654. - Bigoted on other matters.

655. Well, learn you history, Pat.

656. - I know my history... - Learn your Catholic history.

657. No, you don't, you just don't know your history.

658. - That was the first time I ever heard anyone ever say that the

659. church had a tolerant attitude toward homosexuality,

660. and, uh...

661. no one ever told me.

662. It's eight years ago and,

663. uh, and I just never knew until I watched this show and heard

664. what— what, uh...

665. Andrew Sullivan said and saw that Pat Buchanan was stumped.

666. And uh...

667. uh, it just made me go out and buy books and read and find out

668. about my Catholic history that I just took for granted,

669. what priests and nuns told me my entire life going to Catholic

670. school or going to church or mass or whatever that

671. homosexuality was wrong, only to learn that that wasn't true.

672. - And note that I will not use the adjective "gay" because that

673. adjective — which used to mean happy,

674. mirthful, or cheerful — is totally inappropriate when a

675. plague is sweeping across our country that is killing hundreds

676. of thousands of homosexuals before this plague has run its

677. course, and we don't know when it's going to stop its course.

678. To use the word "gay" instead of "sad" is an idiotic acquiescence

679. to a public relations ploy.

680. They changed the word "homosexual" — a medical word

681. — to "gay," a public relations thing,

682. just as they torture and twist the whole vocabulary of

683. "gay-bashing," "homophobe,"discrimination,"

684. "intolerance," all around anal and oral sex for college kids?

685. Freshmen and sophomores?

686. What idiocy is this?

687. It has nothing to do with bigotry.

688. I matriculated at Jesuit schools for seven years!

689. Loyola High and Loyola U in Los Angeles.

690. And I was taught carefully the difference between a misdemeanor

691. — a venial sin — and a mortal sin.

692. The time of the gentleman has expired.

693. - 30 seconds, Bill.

694. - I'll give the gentleman just a minute.

695. - A serious sin, a grievous offense!

696. Gentlemen, withhold, please.

697. - We were scheduled to go to dinner.

698. His plans had changed, which really screwed me up,

699. because all day I had a knot in my stomach because I knew I was

700. gonna tell him.

701. I got into the car, drove, hit a red light,

702. and I— I was very nervous, and I said to him,

703. "Poppy," I said, "you may not be very happy about this."

704. And he says, "Well, what is it?"

705. And I said, um, "I want you to know that I'm gay."

706. He looked at me and tears were rolling down my eyes,

707. and he looked at me and he said, "I've loved you like a son for

708. 20 years.

709. Did you think that would make a difference?"

710. And then he leaned over and he kissed me on the cheek.

711. We were not going out to dinner;

712. he had that wrong.

713. We were meeting at a political "Welcome Dornan home from the

714. Presidential trail" at Buck Johnson's office.

715. And Brian came into the back and I winked at him and he says,

716. "Hi—" and he calls me "Pop."

717. And he starts to sob, and he says,

718. "Poppy, I'm gay."

719. And he says, "Poppy, I— I just had to tell you."

720. He said I gave him a big, sloppy wet kiss.

721. You see how these things get cheapened?

722. I kissed him on his sideburn, on his cheek,

723. and I said, "Brian, this isn't going to change how I feel about

724. you."

725. And he said, "Poppy, you've said a lot of cruel things about our

726. community."

727. I said, "Hey, Brian, let's start off right here.

728. Don't use that word 'community.'

729. Does that include leather fetishists,

730. transgender people, pedophiles?

731. What is it included in the community?"

732. I said, "Let's talk about you.

733. Did you try daily mass and communion?

734. What about Jesus here, Brian?"

735. Now, let me broaden it for my Jewish and Muslim friends: God.

736. "What about that?"

737. But then, you're going to go into Leviticus.

738. Can we go into a commercial?

739. I'll refrain from Romans and Leviticus this morning.

740. Thank you.

741. Our guest, the former congressman, Bob Dornan...

742. - We're here to organize the 2002 San Diego Christian

743. Conference on Trauma and Sexuality,

744. and that is such a long name.

745. But it does express quite well what we're doing,

746. because we are dealing with trauma in people's lives.

747. Now why are you personally here?

748. - Me, personally?

749. I got into this, my son was in the homosexual lifestyle,

750. and he had definitely had trauma.

751. I think I told you before that he passed away from AIDS in

752. 1994, and part of my healing, um,

753. has been to continue— it was actually— I think it was after

754. he had died that I got involved being on the executive

755. committee.

756. I very much believe in redemption and that there is

757. redemption.

758. In a lot of different ways, redemption comes into our lives

759. and, um...

760. part of working the conference is redemption for my son,

761. for the loss of his life...

762. because if I can help somebody else...

763. be able to live, then that's important to me.

764. Um...

765. which means I've come a long way...

766. because there was a day and time I thought it would be really

767. nice if just all those gay people would just all get AIDS

768. and die and it wouldn't be just my son.

769. They all deserved it.

770. And of course, I knew that wasn't a good attitude.

771. But that was an honest feeling.

772. And it was okay at the time.

773. I've gotten over that.

774. I don't feel that way anymore.

775. So that's healing.

776. In February of 2001,

777. Kathleen's conference sponsored a symposium to address and

778. prevent homosexuality in America's youth.

779. The event itself was organized by the Focus on the Family

780. Group, which strongly advocates that churches have a

781. responsibility to love the homosexual,

782. while clearly denouncing homosexuality.

783. Before you could get inside the conference,

784. attendees were greeted by men and women who

785. belong to the gay movement.

786. - It's this kind of oppression that makes people hate

787. themselves.

788. It's kind of oppression that makes people try and kill

789. themselves with drugs and alcohol.

790. Several hundred people attended the conference.

791. Speakers talked about how homosexuality is preventable and

792. treatable.

793. One of the presenters was Mike Hayley,

794. a former gay activist.

795. - I'm married, I have a child, I've gone on,

796. my life is incredibly different than I ever thought it could be.

797. Another speaker was Dr Joseph Nicolosi.

798. He claims to have successfully converted hundreds of

799. homosexuals.

800. Heather Beberay is from the Lesbian and Gay Men's Community

801. Center.

802. - I think the point is there is as many experiences as there are

803. people on this planet, and to have one group of people saying

804. that their experience is what everyone should have is

805. problematic and is not about what this country is founded

806. upon.

807. Maria Velasquez, KFMB News 8.

808. - Reinvent the human.

809. - He makes the ultimate reference to evidence,

810. and the other gentleman spoke the evidence of his own life.

811. She made no reference to evidence.

812. It is her opinion as to what the nation is founded upon in regard

813. for graciousness towards the minorities and what have you.

814. And hers is a peculiar and limited understanding of that.

815. I don't find her remarks necessarily intellectually

816. persuasive.

817. - Amen.

818. - Blessings upon you all. - Thank you.

819. - Thank you for your hospitality, and we will clean up after

820. ourselves.

821. - Okay, don't set any fires while I'm gone.

822. What are you giving me?

823. I'm giving you that one that I was just printing

824. out.

825. And why are you wanting me to have it?

826. - Because I want you— I want you to read what,

827. uh, it said.

828. Oh, okay.

829. What's the essence of it?

830. - Exactly that.

831. Exactly what?

832. Truth may prevail.

833. It's kind of exciting when it, um— it ties in...

834. And that's the last page.

835. Here, I got it.

836. - Thank you. - Okay.

837. Oop, see, that scares him.

838. - Sit.

839. Good job, good job!

840. Yeah, one thing we did talk about was really— was,

841. uh, David.

842. - Come!

843. - And his situation— - Uh-huh.

844. With your mom.

845. - They were much better friends than my mom and I are.

846. They have a lot of things that they share in common,

847. and, uh, art...

848. in particular the art, and it was my mom who really,

849. um, encouraged David and supported David and financially

850. supported him in his pursuit of, uh,

851. his college career and his art career.

852. You know, there's gotta be something to the genetic aspect

853. of this, and, uh, you know, I'd love to know more about my

854. family and my roots from a generation or two back

855. because...

856. I really do feel that it's a genetic thing,

857. you know?

858. Did you ever figure he was gonna be a gay kid?

859. - I kind of thought maybe so just because of the person he is,

860. and I mean that in a positive way.

861. She's going to be mad.

862. - Why?

863. You're calling her.

864. At least you're calling her.

865. - Happy Mother's Day.

866. How are you?

867. Yeah?

868. What you doing?

869. Mm-hm.

870. Just curious what it was like to call your grandmother.

871. - Uh, I felt bad because I normally would be there.

872. Actually...

873. the only reason I didn't go down— really,

874. the reason I didn't wanna go down this weekend was because of

875. a letter that, um...

876. that I read about her position on homosexuality,

877. so...

878. What was the letter about?

879. - Um, it was a really strongly-worded letter...

880. kind of condemning homosexuality as the,

881. uh...

882. the evil of society, you know?

883. Talking about how perverted and sinful and how her group prays

884. for God to enter the minds of their children to make them

885. realize what they're doing is wrong,

886. and I don't know, I kind of thought we were passed that.

887. - Yeah, it was kind of hurtful, I thought.

888. I thought it was unusual for her to have you read that on Easter.

889. - Yeah.

890. You know, uh...

891. She gave it to you?

892. - Yeah.

893. Oh, you didn't just casually pick that up.

894. - At the table when we were eating.

895. What do we have here?

896. We have a letter from San Diego Ministries.

897. David had a very negative reaction to it over the phone

898. with me.

899. Well, no wonder he reacted the way he did.

900. Why is that?

901. - Well, that's a pretty tough "These parents all have

902. one basic belief and that is that this type of behavior is

903. considered deviant, unnatural, and destructive to the human

904. race."

905. Well, she signs it "Sincerely in Jesus the compassionate one,"

906. but that wasn't a very compassionate-sounding letter.

907. My understanding of the New Testament and Jesus' words of a

908. relationship with God is constituted upon where you put

909. Jesus Christ in your life.

910. If you believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and accept Him

911. as your savior, you have a relationship with God.

912. And it's not my mother's responsibility to monitor my

913. relationship with God, you know?

914. It's my responsibility.

915. It's her responsibility to treat me as,

916. uh— with love and compassion and as a daughter and a member

917. of the family.

918. - But she does. - And support.

919. I think she does.

920. - Well, I think she does, but there's always the "But."

921. You know, there's always that, um...

922. Could it be that she just wants you to have a better

923. relationship with God?

924. A more— stronger one?

925. But who made her the God police?

926. My real concern about this is...

927. not so much whether my mother believes it or not,

928. but um...

929. this kind of stuff going out on the internet and across the

930. nation is what ultimately leads people or gives people

931. permission to kill a Matthew Shepard.

932. Because when you put these buzz words in of "deviant,"

933. I mean, this is the same type of language that Hitler used in

934. World War II to excuse the extermination of the Jewish

935. people, you know?

936. It's political language.

937. But, you know, if a group of parents getting together and

938. venting, you know, helps them through their anger and guilt,

939. then I guess, you know, there's some need being met there,

940. but at what cost and, you know, at what price?

941. - No father, a mother who's a child herself

942. and who gets mixed up with goodness-knows-what,

943. and this boy was brought up that way.

944. And he was just an absolute closet case of falling into a—

945. a gay relationship.

946. Because what was he looking for?

947. A father, somebody— he's looking for love.

948. I'm lost in thought.

949. I'm trying to process all this.

950. I still believe in God.

951. That's how I was raised.

952. I just don't believe in churches and I don't believe everything

953. that was written by men.

954. I don't— I sincerely don't believe that the entire,

955. um...

956. scripture was inspired by God.

957. It's like we don't talk about the real issues.

958. We avoid talking about them, but she still is talking about them

959. in a public level.

960. So it's kind of like we're avoiding talking about it,

961. but she's still talking about it.

962. Well, she had a stroke the last time you

963. discussed, uh, your homosexuality.

964. - Right.

965. - So, I mean, you're kind of like,

966. uh, in fear of jeopardizing her health,

967. I think.

968. - No, she didn't have a stroke.

969. She got up upset and then she had a stroke shortly thereafter.

970. All right, well, she usually isn't that— don't you

971. get strokes after stressful situations?

972. - Her health is fragile, and that's part of why I don't push

973. issues...

974. 'cause I don't want to her hurt.

975. - I thought they did accept me and David as— as a,

976. uh...

977. as a family.

978. - I still think they do, though, in a way.

979. - Um, you know, with me and my two kids,

980. you know, it was almost like when they were praying for you

981. to be straight and have a family,

982. it's like their prayer was answered by me coming along with

983. two kids.

984. I don't know about that.

985. You don't wear dresses.

986. - And, uh, you know, it's like, uh,

987. I think sometimes God is trying to tell them something,

988. they're just not listening.

989. Have you ever bought homo milk?

990. Did you even know homo milk existed?

991. No.

992. - I didn't either until I went into my local Ralph's and I saw

993. that Ralph's sells homo milk.

994. I thought that was so hysterical that I actually had

995. to take it off the rack in the supermarket.

996. We were big milk-drinkers in our household and still am,

997. and so, you know, it was drinking all that homo milk all

998. my life that did it to me.

999. So, I guess, uh, let's see...

1000. Okay.

1001. I'm told that Brian O'Leary Bennet is on the line.

1002. Brian?

1003. Um, no, it's not that line.

1004. Okay, Brian, are you there?

1005. - Yeah, Michael? - Hi.

1006. Hi, Michael.

1007. Hi, Poppy.

1008. Hi Brian, how you doing, pal?

1009. I'm doing fine.

1010. - I miss ya. - I miss you too.

1011. Did you promise, Congressman,

1012. Brian here that you would go easier on homosexuals now

1013. subsequent to his acknowledging that he's gay?

1014. Let me actually tell you what the exact quote was.

1015. I said, "Poppy, you have hurt people like me by saying—

1016. calling us 'pedophiles,' 'molesters,'

1017. 'predators' for a long time," and I said,

1018. "It has hurt us and I wish you would stop it."

1019. I said, "Brian, you know better than anybody on this

1020. planet how the liberal-dominant media culture spins me and takes

1021. things out of context.

1022. And we agreed to go over it and talk about it.

1023. No, actually, Poppy, what you did say is that you

1024. said you would, and then you said,

1025. - "Maybe you can show me the way." - That's right.

1026. Maybe you can even build a bridge to the gay and

1027. lesbian community for me...

1028. When somebody like me comes out to him and turns upside-down

1029. every stereotype that he's created in his own mind,

1030. someone he loves like a son, traveled all over the world

1031. with, did all these things with, how could he possibly be a

1032. homosexual?

1033. Then, you sit down and you have discussion after discussion,

1034. which we did for the year and a half after I came out before he

1035. stopped talking to me.

1036. I don't think he was willing to take that leap to actually think

1037. that he might have been wrong all these years.

1038. It was really hard for him, but you could see he was trying to

1039. understand, and that's why he said,

1040. "Don't give up on me," and he kept saying,

1041. "Don't give up on me."

1042. How much he wants to acknowledge that this has affected him

1043. publicly, I don't think he will, because he's a public man;

1044. he's been a public man for 40 years,

1045. so he'll be very circumspect in how he would describe how this

1046. all affects him.

1047. It's— it's complicated because you're not blood,

1048. but it's— it's good complicated.

1049. It's a good relationship.

1050. If it were blood, do you think it would have been any

1051. different?

1052. - Yeah, yeah, I think— well, yeah,

1053. certainly he wouldn't have— I don't think he would be

1054. disowning me right now.

1055. Um...

1056. I think he'd be struggling to try to figure out a way to fix

1057. me, but, um— but I don't think he would be disowning me.

1058. So, um— so there's probably the clearest example.

1059. I'm somebody else's problem.

1060. Out of sight, out of mind.

1061. He doesn't have to worry about me coming home for Christmas or

1062. Thanksgiving, even though I spent years of Christmases and

1063. Thanksgivings with him, so...

1064. Decades of Christmases and Thanksgivings.

1065. Congressman Dornan, tell me how you feel about your

1066. own chances this evening?

1067. - Excellent.

1068. I predicted three weeks ago...

1069. In 1996, Bob Dornan lost his reelection bid in a

1070. tight race against political newcomer Loretta Sanchez.

1071. He is currently featured on his own talk radio show.

1072. Brian is now a Vice President at the Southern California

1073. Edison Company.

1074. He served on the 2001 Presidential transition team as

1075. an openly-gay Republican.

1076. - Hi.

1077. How are you?

1078. Good.

1079. Happy Valentine's Day.

1080. Is Mom there?

1081. I wanted to talk to you about, um,

1082. this weekend and uh, whatnot.

1083. Do you have two phones?

1084. What do you think you're doing if it's not having an adverse

1085. effect?

1086. Everything that you're saying to me tonight is saying that...

1087. You're saying that you don't want to do this,

1088. you don't want this to become public,

1089. you don't want me to be who I am because it might offend somebody

1090. else or they might act adversely or negatively...

1091. and therefore, something's wrong with me or I have something to

1092. be ashamed of or guilty of, or maybe you do and you're worried

1093. about their opinion of you.

1094. They were gay?

1095. And all of a sudden, they were cured?

1096. Hm, shock therapy and drugs.

1097. You don't even have any idea.

1098. That's it, I gotta go, I gotta go.

1099. Goodbye.

1100. I wanted to be accepted in the Mormon church.

1101. I wanted to be viewed as a good person or a righteous person.

1102. As somebody that was going to go to Heaven.

1103. I don't want to be viewed as the outcast,

1104. as the rebel.

1105. What makes them think that my faith is any less then their

1106. faith?

1107. What makes them think that they can try any harder to make me

1108. straight than I already did?

1109. Anything that they can't refute...

1110. is the Devil's work, because they have their faith and their

1111. belief, and they know what's right.

1112. Heaven forbid they should ever have to go through this.

1113. Wow...

1114. It's hard enough for me to deal with,

1115. let alone thinking of somebody else that I care about having to

1116. deal with this...

1117. because I don't think they could survive it.

1118. Wednesday, September 1st, 1999.

1119. "Dearest son, Brett, how are you doing?

1120. I've been wondering about your thumb.

1121. Have you decided if you're gonna have more surgery on it?

1122. If you do, would you just send us a quick e-mail and let us

1123. know?

1124. Your answering machine still isn't working.

1125. I hope it's just broken and not that you've turned it off

1126. because you don't want to hear us anymore.

1127. When we call you and your machine comes on is the only

1128. time we get to hear your voice.

1129. I hope it's working again soon.

1130. Love, Mom."

1131. We're at Valerie and Felix Cardenas' home.

1132. These are my dear friends from, uh...

1133. Really, what brought us all together was sort of a political

1134. issue around development in— in Edgewater.

1135. They've been like my sort of extended family.

1136. I've been here for most of the major holidays.

1137. - This is a, uh— a changing community,

1138. because when I grew up here, it was an industrial,

1139. um...

1140. Well, actually, they called it "where home and

1141. industry blend."

1142. Working-class, blue collar all the way.

1143. Bars and banks and factories.

1144. People need— people's perspectives needs to be,

1145. uh, challenged, because we're stuck,

1146. you know?

1147. In America in general, we're stuck,

1148. we've stopped, we haven't grown, and people are putting up too

1149. many barriers.

1150. And my brother's gay.

1151. And I'm proud of it.

1152. And I love him.

1153. There's a danger here that we're going to end up on

1154. - this tape— - Yes.

1155. As sounding like a bunch of religious bigots.

1156. And we're getting into areas that this group does not belong

1157. - in. - Right.

1158. - We are here to help and support parents,

1159. and the political aspects are individual and our own.

1160. We're not here to determine the morality of this country,

1161. we do that through our voting box.

1162. That's politics.

1163. What we do spiritually in this group is to show Jesus Christ's

1164. love for each other and for our children.

1165. Amen.

1166. Good.

1167. - So, shut up.

1168. Stop asking political questions!

1169. And you can put that on tape!

1170. - They are very politically active.

1171. Grandma is very politically active.

1172. I mean, they do a lot for candidates who support their

1173. points-of-view.

1174. So—

1175. - Who support their religious points-of-view.

1176. - I think they would— they would try to make every law conform to

1177. the Bible, and if anything was said— is,

1178. uh— anything that they think is a sin in the Bible,

1179. they would want it outlawed.

1180. - Well, I'd like to think at some point we can all get along.

1181. But it would require them to let go of some of their...

1182. extreme hatred for homosexuals.

1183. But they don't hate you.

1184. They love you.

1185. - They said so. - Yeah...

1186. Yeah, I still feel like, uh— I feel like I'm hated.

1187. - Father, I thank You.

1188. I thank You for my husband.

1189. I thank You for all the blessings,

1190. Father, that You bestow on us.

1191. I thank You for Your grace and Your love and Your mercy.

1192. I, too, Father, ask for comfort for my daughter,

1193. peace for her heart, and that You'll help her and lead her,

1194. Father, in the ways that You would have it go,

1195. because the light, Father, that You give will always be there

1196. for her, and I just thank You for her.

1197. Thank You for her life.

1198. And I pray for her happiness and her joy and knowing You and

1199. knowing what is good for her and what is right and the blessings,

1200. Father, that will come from You.

1201. I ask this in Jesus' name and for Your sake, Lord.

1202. - Amen. - Amen.