Waco: The Aftermath 1x4

1. Now, listen to this one.

2. "The way scum like you helps people like David Koresh,

3. I hope all your children die of, uh..."

4. sheesh.

5. Okay. Let's stay focused here, can we?

6. Why do you insist on reading that crap?

7. In case one of these maniacs puts a bullet in my head

8. like they all say they're gonna.

9. Give the cops a good place to start.

10. Yeah, I'm not sure they'd try too hard

11. to solve a case of the cop-killer defenders.

12. - Oh, yeah. - That's a dark thought.

13. - Well... - Shouldn't we be getting

14. - security or something? - Don't worry.

15. I'll protect you from those big mean letter writers.

16. See, guys? Nothing to worry about.

17. Jocelyn's got our backs.

18. Let's get back to it.

19. Wait.

20. - Fan mail? - What do you think...

21. - Really? - Yeah.

22. - ... about that? - "Dear fine sirs...

23. I have been very..." all caps,

24. "... interested in your case defending those Davidians.

25. There are lots of people like me watching to see how this goes.

26. Thank you for being such good patriots."

27. Well, this is nice, isn't it?

28. Let's see. I'm going bankrupt.

29. My wife who I haven't seen in over a month

30. just filed for divorce. I'm living in squalor.

31. I'm getting about three hours of sleep every night

32. to fight a losing case for a bunch of people

33. who don't even like me,

34. but when I hear the praises of adoring fans

35. like Tim McVeigh,

36. makes it all worth it, doesn't it?

37. Now, can we get back to work?

38. tense music plays

39. theme music plays

40. You say you love America,

41. but would you die for it?

42. Would you kill for it?

43. I mean, some things are worth fighting for.

44. I wanna talk today

45. about making ourselves ready,

46. emotionally steeling ourselves

47. for the coming war.

48. The war against White America!

49. I want you to picture

50. what that's gonna be like. Picture...

51. the tanks rolling up our drives,

52. adrenaline coursing through your body.

53. I want you to picture yourself with your gun in your hand

54. and your kids behind you.

55. And I want you to picture that again,

56. and again, and again

57. until it become real to you.

58. So that when the time comes,

59. you won't hesitate to pull the trigger.

60. Because having the nerve to pull the trigger

61. is precisely what...

62. His granddaddy founded the Nazi party.

63. - No shit. - ... protect our home...

64. I'd steer clear of 'em.

65. He's not the kind of guy you wanna mess with.

66. to protect our God-fearing way of life!

67. We've heard it said that David Koresh believed

68. he was preparing,

69. planning for a great war.

70. Did he ever express those beliefs

71. when he purchased these guns from you?

72. I didn't deal with David,

73. but I was aware of the philosophy, yes.

74. Who did you deal with?

75. I dealt almost exclusively with Paul Fatta.

76. And you're referring to defendant Fatta

77. seated behind counsel over here?

78. Yes.

79. Did Mr. Fatta seem knowledgeable

80. when it came to guns?

81. Inside and out.

82. And how many guns did Paul Fatta

83. purchase from you?

84. About $90,000 worth.

85. Exhibit 103.

86. Can you tell us what this is

87. and where you found it?

88. We found it in the compound,

89. in the chapel.

90. And what type of weapon is this?

91. It's an M-16 rifle.

92. I carried one in Vietnam

93. for 11 months and seven days.

94. Because it's a military weapon

95. built for war?

96. That's right.

97. Now, Ranger Boak,

98. you've testified about finding a lot of evidence here.

99. Tell me this.

100. Did you also happen to locate the building's front doors?

101. No, sir.

102. Help me out here.

103. You were able to find this BIC lighter

104. but not two seven-foot doors?

105. No.

106. Why not?

107. It must've burned with the rest of the building.

108. Burned? Both front doors?

109. That's right.

110. Uh-hmm.

111. But in the months leading up to the ATF's arrival

112. at Mount Carmel,

113. what did you observe regarding their inventory?

114. We observed a dramatic increase

115. in their stockpile of weapons.

116. So, they were buying guns

117. but not selling them?

118. Correct.

119. I only have two questions.

120. In your years of observation and research,

121. did the Davidians ever obtain a weapon illegally?

122. Not to my knowledge.

123. Okay.

124. And just one more thing.

125. In your examination of all the evidence,

126. I don't reckon you saw those pesky missing front doors,

127. did you?

128. Lieutenant Caldwell,

129. could you tell us what the Mag Bag was?

130. The Mag Bag was a small tract of land

131. located on Farm Road outside of Waco.

132. It was where Mr. Koresh and Mr. Fatta received shipments

133. of weapons, ammunition, gun parts.

134. And had you had any previous interactions

135. with David Koresh or Paul Fatta

136. that would lead you to believe...

137. - Objection! Objection! Approach? - ... that was the possibility?

138. Judge, this is a transparent attempt

139. to bring up my client, Paul Fatta's past,

140. which is entirely out of bounds.

141. It's germane to this case, Your Honor.

142. - Okay. - Mr. Fatta and Mr. Koresh

143. both have a previous charge of conspiracy to commit murder.

144. And the fact that he and his compatriots

145. tried to kill a man in cold blood

146. absolutely informed the ATF's decision-making process...

147. You mean your decision-making process.

148. when they decided to stage a dynamic entry into Mount Carmel.

149. Paul Fatta wasn't even there when the tanks rolled in.

150. He wasn't there a single day of the standoff.

151. It doesn't matter if he wasn't there.

152. And if Mr. Johnston wants to prove

153. that there was some conspiracy,

154. he should do it with relevant evidence

155. and not unfounded accusations from the '80s.

156. Mr. Fatta is a defendant in this—

157. Stop.

158. I have already ruled on this, Mr. Johnston.

159. Yes, Your Honor.

160. The defendant's previous charges

161. are not in the purview of this case.

162. Objection sustained.

163. Thank you. Thank you.

164. You can't keep all your skeletons in the closet.

165. Neither can you, fucko.

166. No further questions.

167. Your witness.

168. I only have one question.

169. You wouldn't happen to know where the front doors

170. from Mount Carmel ended up, would you?

171. No? Okay.

172. dramatic music plays

173. Can I do for you, George?

174. We're gonna settle this now.

175. Settle what?

176. Who's the real prophet.

177. We're gonna see who can bring her back.

178. Bring who back?

179. My mother.

180. Your lies put her in the ground.

181. I just took her out.

182. What are you talking about, George?

183. What do you mean you took her out?

184. I dug her up.

185. You dug up Lois's body?

186. Why would you do that?

187. Whoever can raise my momma from the dead...

188. will be the next true prophet of Mount Carmel.

189. Sheriff,

190. what do you mean you can't do anything?

191. George dug up his own dead mother!

192. - It's an abomination! - Look, Vernon.

193. I drove by Mount Carmel after you called.

194. I didn't see any dug-up bodies.

195. George told me himself!

196. Yeah, George says a lot of crazy things.

197. Unless you have actual evidence

198. of corpse abuse or some other crime,

199. there's not much that I can do.

200. Maybe the best course of action is for y'all

201. to stay away from Mount Carmel.

202. Just leave George Roden be.

203. He's the one that called me!

204. I think he's fixing to come after us.

205. Well, then you might wanna think

206. about getting something to defend yourself with.

207. Mr. Cogdell. Mr. Cogdell.

208. Do you think it's the doors that prove who shot first?

209. I do.

210. But, but those doors are also a symbol

211. for all the questionable behavior

212. the Federal government has taken part in.

213. Listen, listen.

214. The ATF shows up with more cameras

215. than a Hollywood blockbuster, but there's no footage.

216. They lose power at the morgue so no autopsies can be done.

217. Christ, they bulldozed the whole crime scene

218. and then they bleached it for good measure.

219. This is what happens when you have the architect

220. of a government raid,

221. the man who demanded the ATF

222. go in with a hard entry, also prosecuting the same case.

223. You saying there's some sort

224. - of government cover-up? - No, I'm just saying

225. that Bill Johnston has a vested interest

226. in convicting these people, that's for damn sure.

227. I heard you with the press saying I'm corrupt.

228. That's way out of bounds.

229. It's called zealously defending my clients.

230. You can't win with the facts,

231. so you're trying to turn this thing

232. into a government cover-up,

233. and you're dragging my name through the mud to do it,

234. like I had some ulterior motive.

235. I sanctioned that raid

236. because I was trying to save those kids.

237. Save those kids with a forcible entry?

238. I'm doing my job the best way I know how.

239. Now, you don't agree with it? Fine.

240. But let's fight fair, Dan.

241. You want me to fight fair?

242. You've got the public, the press,

243. and the United States government behind you.

244. And all I've got is a booth at the Polo Lounge.

245. I'm not gonna play with one-hand tied behind my back.

246. You want me to shut up? Find those doors.

247. tense music plays

248. Listen, when the prosecutor starts picking fights

249. with you in the hall, it means you're doing something right.

250. Hmm.

251. Yeah, yeah, except...

252. Except what?

253. You've been watching the forewoman?

254. Um...

255. juror number six?

256. She's the poison juror.

257. I can just tell. She's itching to say the G-word.

258. Yeah. Well, that's why we have 11 more

259. because all you need is one.

260. Jocelyn, you'd acquit our clients, wouldn't you?

261. Hell no.

262. They're guilty as shit.

263. Just like their defense lawyers.

264. Ow. Ow.

265. Number six, she's the top dog.

266. - She could sway the rest. - Listen, don't—

267. don't worry about number six. I'm gonna focus on her.

268. I'm gonna make her feel like the prettiest,

269. most special juror in the world.

270. Ask Jocelyn if I can't sweet-talk

271. the legs off a chair.

272. Dan, if you were half as charming

273. as you think you are,

274. you'd be the best lawyer on earth.

275. Ooh.

276. Is that flirting? Is she flirting?

277. - No, that is not— - Jesus, Gordon!

278. God. God! I gotta put a bell on you.

279. Think I may have an answer for you

280. on those front doors.

281. Whoa. Is this Mount Carmel?

282. What is this, Gordon? What am I looking at here?

283. This was taken at 3:55 p.m.,

284. a couple hours after the fire started.

285. And these are FBI agents

286. loading something into a truck.

287. Something about the size and shape of a door.

288. Yeah, which was so daggone important

289. that they had to grab it

290. while the building was still smoldering.

291. You crazy son of a bitch.

292. - This is it. - That's it.

293. You think these are the front doors

294. being loaded into this truck?

295. I do, Your Honor.

296. This is absurd.

297. That's not real evidence.

298. You can hardly see anything in that photo.

299. I could say they're loading Bigfoot

300. into the back of that truck.

301. - It's pretty blurry, Counselor. - Well,

302. uh, either way, the fact that the FBI

303. was loading anything into the back of a U-Haul

304. while a building is still smoldering

305. is information the jury deserves to know.

306. Your Honor, the defense has obtained a blurry photo

307. from a conspiracy theorist who got it from who-knows-where.

308. How do you know where I got it from?

309. It wasn't in discovery.

310. Are you spying on me?

311. - Judge? - Cogdell,

312. get ahold of yourself.

313. Besides,

314. we have our own evidence we'd like to submit

315. which will address these ridiculous claims.

316. And what's that?

317. We found the door, Your Honor.

318. The door? What door?

319. - What door? - Yeah.

320. The one you've been asking about non-stop.

321. The one you claim is gonna flip this whole case on its head.

322. We're bringing it in.

323. Should put your concerns to rest.

324. dramatic music plays

325. May it please the Court,

326. the government would like to offer

327. Government Exhibit Number 728.

328. Jesus, what a showman.

329. You hear what he said earlier?

330. That a conspiracy theorist gave us the photo?

331. Do you think they've got the Polo Lounge bugged?

332. We found the door in Sector F,

333. approximately 40 feet away from the building.

334. And did you realize it was the front door?

335. No, sir.

336. It was located so far away

337. from the front of the building

338. we classified it as a piece of scrap metal.

339. And when did you come to realize

340. that it was the front door?

341. When we re-canvassed the evidence warehouse yesterday

342. at your urging and found it.

343. Now, does this door

344. appear to have any bullet holes in it?

345. No, sir.

346. So there is nothing here

347. that contradicts any of the earlier ATF testimony

348. stating that the Davidians fired first?

349. No.

350. Were you aware that the cult compound

351. - originally had two front doors? - Yes.

352. We re-canvassed for that one as well,

353. but didn't find it, which wasn't surprising.

354. Why not?

355. It was still attached to the building.

356. It melted when the building burned.

357. Objection. Speculation.

358. The witness has no first-hand knowledge

359. that the other door melted.

360. Uh-hmm. Sustained.

361. All right.

362. Ranger Boak,

363. why do you believe the other front door melted?

364. Because the doors were aluminum with foam cores.

365. And it was subjected to temperatures

366. in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit

367. during the fire.

368. Aluminum melts at 1200.

369. And why didn't this door melt?

370. You see those marks?

371. They're from the treads of a tank.

372. And when the tanks penetrated the compound entryway,

373. we believe the door got caught in the treads

374. and was dragged to the place that we found it.

375. Well clear of the fire.

376. Could you go get something for me?

377. Now, Ranger Boak,

378. you didn't realize that this was a door initially.

379. Is that common, to miscategorize evidence?

380. It's not common but it happens,

381. particularly if there's a large volume of evidence.

382. Final question, were you and the Texas Rangers

383. part of a massive conspiracy

384. headed by the Federal government to hide this door?

385. I reckon not, sir.

386. No further questions.

387. Sheriff said we needed proof of, um,

388. what'd he call it?

389. - Corpse abuse. - Corpse abuse

390. in order to do anything about it.

391. Well...

392. what if we gave him some proof?

393. Like a picture?

394. We can't just go to Mount Carmel and snap a picture.

395. George carries around an Uzi.

396. He's...

397. He's crazy.

398. I mean, you heard the Sheriff,

399. he said we might need to arm ourselves.

400. So what if we did?

401. All right.

402. We'll take, uh, five of the Rugers

403. and, uh, throw in some of them camo suits too.

404. You got it.

405. We're here.

406. All right.

407. Everybody stay quiet and stay close.

408. We're just getting a few photos and then getting out.

409. All right?

410. tense music plays

411. Okay. Come on.

412. Vernon!

413. suspenseful music plays

414. No. No, George.

415. Go, go, go!

416. You're trespassing!

417. Sneaking around my property!

418. suspenseful music plays

419. George, no!

420. Ah!

421. Oh! Oh!

422. You all right?

423. Guess you got to learn how to shoot.

424. Won't be the last time we got to defend ourselves.

425. suspenseful music plays

426. Beast is coming.

427. Drop your weapons!

428. On the ground!

429. ATF agents testified

430. that the Davidians shot first

431. and that those shots...

432. went through the front doors.

433. But the Davidians have stated that it was the ATF

434. who shot at them through those same doors.

435. But this door has no bullet holes in it, correct?

436. Not that I see.

437. So it must be the other door, the still-missing door,

438. that was shot through and it would be the other door

439. that would prove which side was telling the truth.

440. Yes. It— it appears that way.

441. Well, that's bad luck, isn't it?

442. Uh, a moment, Judge.

443. - Oh... shit. - That's all I could find.

444. So, you believe the other door melted.

445. - Yes. - Because it was made

446. of aluminum.

447. That's what I said.

448. And those guns right there didn't melt

449. because they're made of steel,

450. which has a much higher melting point?

451. Yes.

452. So if the other door was made of steel,

453. would it have melted?

454. No.

455. Yet that door seems awfully heavy.

456. Well, I mean, my daddy was a contractor.

457. Uh, I'd help him demo houses.

458. We pulled down a lot of aluminum doors.

459. I could carry one under one arm.

460. Sure didn't take three men to pick one up.

461. I—I couldn't speak to that.

462. Well, then let me ask you this, Ranger Boak.

463. Is aluminum magnetic?

464. Objection!

465. Ranger Boak is a lay witness, not a metals expert.

466. I'll allow it.

467. No, it's not magnetic.

468. How about steel?

469. I believe so, yes.

470. So this refrigerator magnet,

471. would it stick to aluminum?

472. Um, no, it—it wouldn't.

473. tense music plays

474. Do you still believe this door is made of aluminum?

475. No, sir, it looks to be made of steel.

476. And if this door is made of steel,

477. wouldn't it stand to reason that the other door

478. it was attached to was also made of steel?

479. The witness needs to respond verbally.

480. Yes.

481. So then, Ranger Boak,

482. I'll ask you again...

483. where is the missing door?

484. Oh, hey.

485. Do you—do you need the phone?

486. Because I can wait, it's not urgent.

487. Hello?

488. No, go ahead.

489. Hello? Hello?

490. Hey, Daddy.

491. Oh, Carol.

492. Oh, it's so good to hear from you.

493. - Are you safe? - Yeah, yeah.

494. I, I just wanted you to know that,

495. that I made it to my friend's place okay.

496. You know, I didn't— I didn't want you to worry.

497. Yeah, that's good to hear because I was worried.

498. Your mom and I were both worried.

499. When do you think we'll see you again?

500. Uh, it's hard to say, you know,

501. but I—but I should go because there's someone

502. waiting on the phone, so I, you know,

503. I just didn't want you to think I got lost.

504. Well, hey, thanks for calling.

505. You called...

506. Hmm.

507. Ah, that was Carol.

508. She's still in play.

509. You sure she's just not looking to get more candy money?

510. What's your name?

511. I don't know you.

512. Woo. Good girl. You taught her well.

513. Okay, kiddo, we're gonna get you to daycare.

514. Government has charged my clients with conspiracy.

515. They claim that Paul Fatta was a blood merchant,

516. the architect of some violent plot

517. when he was just a man trying to run a business.

518. But after what we saw today I can't help but wonder

519. if it's the government who shouldn't be answering

520. for their actions,

521. if it's the government who is conspiring against

522. my clients, whose only crime was leading

523. a life the government didn't agree with.

524. And now that same government refuses to take responsibility

525. for its actions, and in fact is willing to do

526. whatever it takes to cover it up,

527. even if it means hurting innocent people.

528. But that malfeasance, that arrogance

529. has dangerous consequences

530. for my clients

531. and for the rest of this country.

532. Lori Rae?

533. You're on the Waco jury, right?

534. What?

535. No, I don't wanna talk.

536. The Constitution of the United States

537. gives jurors great powers.

538. I'm here to inform you of your choices.

539. Please, leave!

540. Please!

541. I'm calling the police!

542. You can make the right choice.

543. Please!

544. suspenseful music plays

545. Before we get started, I wanna make you all aware

546. of something,

547. five of our jurors had letters delivered

548. to their homes this weekend by a group called FIJA,

549. the Fully Informed Jury Association.

550. Pamphlets claim

551. the rules of the court don't apply to the jury

552. and they can make up whatever verdict they see fit.

553. - To the jurors' homes? - Yes.

554. One of the jurors, juror number six,

555. said she was practically accosted.

556. She's pretty shaken up about it.

557. Any of you all familiar with this group?

558. Are you asking us, Your Honor?

559. I'm asking everyone.

560. It just seems like the implication

561. is that the defense might benefit from this.

562. I think you're reading into my question.

563. I'm not implying anything, counselor.

564. I'm just concerned that if-if the jury thinks

565. these people are aligned with—

566. I will tell the jury they have nothing to do

567. with anyone involved in the trial.

568. That would be much appreciated. Thank you.

569. So long as they believe they can remain impartial.

570. - Let's get started. - Thank you.

571. Your Honor, the government calls

572. Kathy Schroeder to the stand.

573. So you were a member of this group,

574. a Branch Davidian?

575. I was. Yes.

576. This must be very hard for you

577. to testify against your own people.

578. Yeah, it is.

579. When the ATF arrived on February 28th

580. to serve their warrant,

581. and a gunfight erupted,

582. were you tasked with any kind of job?

583. Yes.

584. I was the one who made sure that everybody

585. had a gun and made sure that everybody

586. had the right ammunition to go with it.

587. - No! They're gonna kill you. - Why?

588. - I don't care! - Give me that gun!

589. Give me that gun!

590. And why were you entrusted with this job?

591. I'd been in the Air Force.

592. So it was like a military exercise?

593. It was something we'd trained for.

594. And the people that you were passing out

595. these weapons to, did they take them

596. - with the intent to use them? - Objection. Speculation.

597. I'll rephrase.

598. Was it your understanding that the weapons would be used?

599. Absolutely.

600. And are some of the people that you passed out

601. these weapons to here today?

602. Yes.

603. Let's get specific.

604. During the raid,

605. did you have any contact with Ruth Riddle?

606. I gave Ruth a gun and nine mags.

607. Can you identify Ruth Riddle?

608. I'm sorry, Ruth.

609. Let the record show that Mrs. Schroeder

610. has identified Ruth Riddle.

611. What contact did you have with Clive Doyle

612. concerning firearms?

613. I gave Clive the.308.

614. Can you identify Clive Doyle?

615. Did you have any contact with Livingstone Fagan

616. concerning firearms?

617. Livingstone was already carrying an AK,

618. so I just made sure he had ammo.

619. Did you have any contact with Paul Fatta

620. concerning firearms?

621. Not on the day of the raid,

622. but he purchased the guns.

623. So David Koresh

624. instructed you to hand out

625. the weapons Paul Fatta purchased

626. to these defendants?

627. Yes.

628. We all had guns. You get it? We all had guns.

629. We all—we all knew what was coming.

630. David always said, "If you can't kill for God,

631. you can't die for God."

632. And was David Koresh willing to die?

633. Of course.

634. We all were.

635. We were the army of God.

636. Even, even David's name,

637. David Koresh,

638. that means "Beloved Death."

639. So... when David Koresh

640. believed he was dying from his gunshot wounds,

641. was there a plan in case he died?

642. We were supposed to carry David

643. out the front door on a stretcher.

644. If he wasn't dead yet,

645. we were gonna shoot him in the head.

646. And then we were supposed to open fire on the FBI agents.

647. And why would you want to do that?

648. To-to-to...

649. to draw their fire.

650. So they'd kill us all.

651. See, you had to know the real David.

652. He was never gonna surrender.

653. Sorry.

654. He was never gonna let us go.

655. And how did you know that?

656. Because...

657. he'd conditioned us.

658. Oh, he did.

659. He conditioned us for years

660. to believe that we were headed

661. for an armed showdown with the—

662. with the forces of the Beast.

663. The Beast?

664. From the Book of Revelation.

665. So,

666. when the ATF arrived at your door,

667. you believed they were those forces?

668. And you were ready for battle.

669. Yeah, we were.

670. And you were conditioned to believe

671. that it would be a battle to the death?

672. Yes.

673. So, no matter what the government did,

674. no matter how many chances they gave the Branch Davidians

675. to come out of Mount Carmel,

676. you weren't coming out alive?

677. No.

678. dramatic music plays

679. It's not too late, you know.

680. We could pick a different place.

681. Bet most of those kids never even heard of Waco.

682. We kill a bunch of kids,

683. who's to say we're any better than the ATF?

684. Yeah. Hello?

685. Gary, Sanborn here.

686. Oh hey, Alan, what's up?

687. I need you on a plane in a couple hours.

688. I passed off the negotiations team to Hendricks.

689. It's not a negotiation.

690. I need you in Texas ASAP.

691. You're being called to testify in the Waco trial tomorrow.

692. What? The...

693. the prosecution wants me to testify?

694. No, the defense does.

695. - The defense? Why? - I don't know.

696. Maybe they caught wind of your little meltdown

697. with the DOJ, where you said Waco

698. was all the government's fault.

699. That's not what I said.

700. Well, either way,

701. they want you on the stand tomorrow.

702. Jesus. No, I—no, no.

703. I don't have time for that, Alan.

704. Can you make it go away?

705. No, I cannot. It's a Federal subpoena.

706. I— This is bad timing, Alan.

707. I just got a CI into Elohim City.

708. What?

709. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

710. Who the hell gave you clearance to send a CI in there?

711. I sure as hell didn't, Gary.

712. If that unauthorized CI turns up dead,

713. your career is over.

714. I realize that.

715. That's why I can't leave right now.

716. I don't like you testifying

717. any more than you do.

718. You go down there and you show that you know how to play ball.

719. If you want support out there in Oklahoma,

720. then you're gonna have to show us that you are a team player.

721. Are you stupid?

722. You had no right to do this without talking to us.

723. This right here is how you lose our whole case.

724. I'm sorry. Were you in there just now?

725. Because Kathy Schroeder just destroyed us.

726. Look, our whole case is built on self-defense,

727. on the idea that the government attacked the Davidians.

728. But the jury is not gonna give a shit about that

729. if they think the Davidians already had a death wish

730. and were gonna kill themselves no matter what.

731. So our job, our most important job,

732. is to show the jury that our clients

733. were actual people, people who wanted to live.

734. And that the choices the ATF and the FBI made

735. are what resulted in all those people dying.

736. We could put their friends on the stand...

737. - No, no. - ... their family.

738. Come on. Somebody's mama ain't gonna convince the jury.

739. But if we can get a badge up there and he says

740. that these were real people, people who wanted to live...

741. then we're cooking with gas.

742. So, just to be clear, you're gonna put

743. a professional negotiator on the stand

744. and hope you can get him to crack?

745. It's a Hail Mary at best.

746. Well, we need a Hail Mary

747. and we need it to connect or we lose.

748. I am so tired of people spreading lies about David,

749. especially when the lies are coming from one of our own.

750. How could she say those things?

751. That we wanted this to happen?

752. We wanted all the people we love to die?

753. - It's insane. - Uh-hmm.

754. It's like letting Judas write the Gospel.

755. I'm gonna testify.

756. Your lawyer is letting you speak?

757. - Mine won't let me. - Neither will mine.

758. I don't care.

759. I have a legal right to testify if I want to.

760. - We all do. - Uh, she's right.

761. It doesn't matter that the lawyers said no.

762. Legally, they can't stop us.

763. And our lawyers are not listening to us.

764. No one is listening to us.

765. So we have to make them listen.

766. I don't know.

767. We are good people.

768. Someone needs to say it.

769. We're not monsters. David's not a monster.

770. The jury needs to hear that David would never do

771. anything to hurt us.

772. He loved us.

773. - Someone should say something. - Uh-hmm.

774. dramatic music plays

775. Hey, mama.

776. What the hell were you thinking,

777. shooting at George Roden like that?

778. - Well, they let me go. - And if they didn't?

779. If they kept you in jail, you think these friends of yours

780. would still be there when you got out?

781. - God told me that— - Oh, don't give me that crap!

782. They might buy this whole messiah thing

783. you've been feeding them, but I remember

784. when you were still pissing your bed.

785. Stop!

786. God speaks to me!

787. - Vernon? - He didn't choose you!

788. He didn't choose Grandma!

789. He chose me!

790. Me!

791. - Vernon! - Not anymore.

792. You gave me that name.

793. But God's got bigger plans for me than you could ever

794. even thought of!

795. Just get in the car.

796. God's given me a new name.

797. David Koresh.

798. From now on, you will call me by my name!

799. I will call you by your given name!

800. Your real name!

801. David Koresh is my real name!

802. Or do you think you know better than God?

803. And is it God then who told you

804. to impregnate Rachel's little sister?

805. What is she, 14?

806. You were 14 when you had me!

807. And I remember what it felt

808. like to be a 14-year-old mother.

809. You know how that felt?

810. Like I was too young!

811. I follow where God leads

812. and if you can't get with the program, then—

813. well, then you'll never see these grandkids of yours.

814. How does that sound to you? Is that what you want?

815. And they'll ask me, "Daddy, why don't I have a grandma?"

816. And I'll say, "Oh, you do have one out there somewhere,

817. but she always had to know best, better than God."

818. Some souls just can't be led to the spirit,

819. no matter how hard you scream and shout at them.

820. Fine.

821. Just get back in the car.

822. Get back in the car what?

823. Get back in the car, please.

824. Get back in the car please, David.

825. They're coming for your guns!

826. They're coming for your kids!

827. They're coming for your guns!

828. They're coming for your kids!

829. They're coming for your guns!

830. They're coming for your kids!

831. They're coming for your guns!

832. They're coming for your kids!

833. They're coming for your guns!

834. They're coming for your kids!

835. They're coming for your guns!

836. They're coming for your kids!

837. They're coming for your guns!

838. - They're coming for your kids! - Is it always like this?

839. Been a circus since day one.

840. I've been telling them we need more support,

841. especially after one of the jurors was followed home.

842. - What? - These guys are coming here

843. from all over the country.

844. So, you gonna ask Noesner about the missing door?

845. Yeah, probably.

846. Hey, where is everyone?

847. Hmm, maybe the bus is late.

848. Oh, shit. Now what?

849. What's up?

850. It seems we got a bit of a mutiny on our hands.

851. You're denying us our constitutional rights.

852. We have a 6th Amendment right to self-representation,

853. and you're denying us that right.

854. Is this about testifying again?

855. This is about speaking the truth!

856. We're, we're good people, and we just want the chance—

857. Clive, we've talked about this.

858. There's no way in hell you're gonna testify.

859. We already have an opinion on—

860. All right. Stop. Stop! Stop!

861. You wanna testify?

862. You should know what it's gonna be like.

863. Mr. Fagan, you were a follower of David Koresh, correct?

864. - Yes. - Did you believe him

865. when he said the end times were coming?

866. Yes.

867. Is that why you were preparing for battle?

868. A spiritual battle.

869. And were people gonna die in this spiritual battle?

870. Yes.

871. Mr. Fagan, have you ever shot anyone?

872. Mr. Fagan, you swore on a Bible to tell the truth.

873. Now, I'll ask you again. Have you ever shot anyone?

874. - Dan— - No, no, no. They wanna do this.

875. Mr. Fatta, in 1988, you were in a gun battle?

876. Yes.

877. A battle led by David Koresh,

878. for which you were both arrested.

879. What crime were you charged with?

880. - Attempted murder. - Attempted murder!

881. You were prepared to kill for Mr. Koresh, weren't you?

882. Because you would do anything Mr. Koresh said.

883. It wasn't like that.

884. We made our own choices.

885. So you had free will?

886. - Yes. - And what about you, Mr. Doyle,

887. - were you brainwashed? - No.

888. So you made your own choices as well?

889. - Yes. - So you chose to let

890. your 12-year-old daughter marry a 30-year-old man?

891. You don't understand...

892. - And what about you? - ... what we—

893. You knew what was going on.

894. Did you say anything?

895. You have to know the Bible.

896. What about you? Did you say anything?

897. Did you? Or maybe you didn't care

898. because you had a son instead of a daughter.

899. That's not fair!

900. You are all complicit.

901. You all saw, you knew, and you didn't say anything.

902. Do you know what the legal term

903. for these marriages of David's is?

904. It's rape.

905. It wasn't rape!

906. It wasn't even sexual!

907. David married them

908. in order to have children!

909. Is that why he married a ten-year-old girl,

910. because she was so fertile?

911. You are not guilty of the crime you've been accused of.

912. And what the government did at Mount Carmel

913. is an abomination.

914. But you're not innocent either.

915. And if you get up there to testify,

916. that's all anybody will be left with.

917. dramatic music plays

918. Everybody wants to go to heaven

919. Everybody wants to go to heaven