Waco: The Aftermath 1x2

1. Agent Ballesteros,

2. can you walk us through what happened

3. as you approached the compound on the morning of February 28th?

4. Yeah. Um...

5. my team was assigned to approach the, uh, front entrance, here.

6. And what happened as you approached?

7. As we got close,

8. David Koresh opened the door and stood there in the doorway.

9. And it was a double door?

10. Yes, a double door.

11. The left one was shut, Koresh had opened the right.

12. Did you announce yourself as you approached?

13. Yes. I yelled, "Police,"

14. and I said that we had a search warrant.

15. And-and what did he do?

16. There are women and children in here!

17. When I was about 15 feet from the door,

18. he smirked,

19. then turned, went back inside, and shut the door behind him.

20. And then what happened?

21. Then I heard a male voice say, "Get that SOB off the porch."

22. Then they just started shooting.

23. Heavy, like someone took a string of firecrackers

24. and dropped them all around me.

25. Shots ripped through the door.

26. Splintered the wood.

27. One struck my right hand so I, uh...

28. I dove over the fence

29. and into the dog pit, here.

30. So they shot first?

31. Meaning the Branch Davidians

32. shot through the door first?

33. Yes.

34. Agent Ballesteros,

35. when you were in the dog pit,

36. were you alone?

37. Uh, initially, and then I was joined by, uh...

38. Agent Willis who had also been shot.

39. And where had Agent Willis been shot?

40. All over.

41. The wounds he had sustained were bleeding heavily.

42. I pulled him over, trying to get us both flat

43. to avoid the shots coming from the second floor.

44. We couldn't move.

45. You were pinned there?

46. Yes.

47. The medic was trying to reach us and pull Willis back...

48. the gunfire was relentless...

49. automatic, high caliber rounds.

50. suspenseful music plays

51. And how long were you pinned there?

52. How long were the Branch Davidians

53. firing on you?

54. Two and a half hours.

55. I eventually looked down at Willis and he, uh...

56. Um, so I yelled over to the medic.

57. I basically told him there was no use coming any further.

58. dramatic music plays

59. Oh.

60. over there.

61. And we picked up the hoses and...

62. Welcome home!

63. How was it?

64. It was wonderful.

65. Oh.

66. Come here, you.

67. Oh.

68. Honey, I missed you.

69. Oh, you too.

70. Israel's beautiful.

71. Can't wait to show it to you someday.

72. When the Lord came

73. For to carry my love away...

74. We're glad you're back, you were missed.

75. You guys hungry?

76. Not really.

77. Thank you, though. Mm.

78. You seem different somehow.

79. Boy, you sure don't miss a thing, do you?

80. Oh, quit being humble.

81. Tell 'em.

82. Vernon started seeing visions

83. when we were in Jerusalem.

84. Oh. - Vernon has become

85. a vessel for the Lord.

86. Oh, that's incredible. - Oh.

87. Yeah, well, I'm just grateful

88. that you gave me the opportunity to go.

89. Seemed like the right thing to do.

90. Well, tell us all about it.

91. Well, we're still working out what it is exactly,

92. what it exactly means.

93. But when the time is right, we'll share with everybody.

94. You know, it was a long flight and I sure am tired.

95. I think I'll, uh, go lay down for a while.

96. Yeah, I'm—I'm tired myself.

97. I think I'll do the same.

98. Ruth.

99. Clive.

100. Will the circle

101. Be unbroken...

102. You ever wonder what that would feel like?

103. By and by...

104. Hmm? What what would be like?

105. Have the gift of prophecy?

106. I bet it'd be scary at first.

107. How do you know you're not going crazy?

108. Oh, looks like Lois left her suitcase.

109. I'll just run it over to her.

110. I'll be right back.

111. Hide my sorrow

112. When they laid her

113. In the grave

114. tense music plays

115. theme music plays

116. Are we sure there's anybody in here?

117. Well, Carol told us Wild Bill and his buddies

118. stayed here the night before the robbery.

119. And it figures there's still someone in there

120. who was helping them.

121. Well, I'm not sure why we had to be here at the crack of dawn.

122. You got somewhere else you gotta be?

123. Yeah, asleep.

124. Just like I'm sure these knuckleheads are.

125. Here we go.

126. Hands up! Get down! Freeze! Freeze!

127. Freeze! Get down! Down!

128. On the ground! Get down!

129. On the ground!

130. Roger on Unit 121.

131. Clear!

132. Hmm.

133. Yeah, you were clear. Were you clear?

134. Hey, excuse me. Do you mind?

135. Thank you.

136. Ah.

137. Huh. Turner Diaries.

138. Well, well, well.

139. Why would anyone need six fax machines?

140. Beats me.

141. Maybe it's to, uh, help spread propaganda, you know?

142. Something's queued up to print here.

143. Let's see.

144. Taking Aim.

145. Militia of Montana.

146. Why would bank robbers in Arkansas

147. want a militia newsletter from Montana?

148. That is a good question.

149. You know, the FBI's current position

150. is that these militia groups don't get along,

151. so they don't communicate, but maybe that's changing.

152. There's a whole box of them.

153. Hey, what's the oldest one in there?

154. May '93. Yeah.

155. That's right after Waco.

156. Pretty smooth.

157. You'll need help.

158. I cannot be involved in something like this.

159. Not directly.

160. Then maybe someone else?

161. No...

162. no one here.

163. Then I can do it on my own.

164. No, you can't.

165. You need help.

166. One lone soldier never won a war.

167. Do you have any friends that can help you?

168. suspenseful music plays

169. Hey, it's Tim.

170. McVeigh. I'm in your neighborhood.

171. tense music plays

172. "Let the Federal government be warned.

173. True Patriots will refresh the tree of liberty

174. with your blood,

175. as you have spilled blood

176. at Ruby Ridge and Waco."

177. You think this is enough to run his phone records?

178. Uh, no.

179. First Amendment, he's got the right to say

180. whatever dumb thing pops into his head.

181. But that's not really my concern.

182. I keep thinking about that bank of fax machines we found.

183. If this newsletter is getting out

184. to even a handful of these groups,

185. it could be amplifying the message exponentially.

186. I wonder what kind of readership this rag gets.

187. Well, we can just call and ask.

188. They put their phone number out on the back of this thing.

189. Taking Aim.

190. Yeah, I run a small arms manufacturing business

191. in Oklahoma

192. and I read your newsletter

193. at a friend's place the other day.

194. I wanted to commend you

195. on your support of the Second Amendment.

196. Uh, I also wanted to inquire

197. about advertising in your newsletter.

198. Yeah?

199. Uh, but the thing is, my business partners,

200. they're not so keen on the idea of advertising

201. in such a local paper.

202. Local?

203. No. We have a broader reach

204. than your partners may realize.

205. That so?

206. We ship to 43 states and counting.

207. Well, you know, we have a fairly sizable advertising budget.

208. We were looking to go pretty small with you, guys,

209. but if you have that kind of reach—

210. Offering a deal.

211. You take out an ad now and keep it running,

212. we'll lock in the rate based on today's readership.

213. We're doubling our subscribers

214. every six months.

215. Every six months? That's impressive.

216. So, uh, what's your readership at now?

217. Couple hundred?

218. No. Over 50,000 readers per issue.

219. Well, Ballesteros hurt us,

220. there's no getting around that.

221. Which is why we should go at him,

222. get into his past cases.

223. Was there something in his personal history, uh,

224. a domestic dispute or something?

225. Slow down there, cowboy. Careful, that's spicy.

226. Rocket, I love your enthusiasm,

227. but Ballesteros watched his buddy die in his arms.

228. There's no way the jury is gonna see him as the bad guy.

229. Agreed. Any air time we give Ballesteros

230. is just a loss for us, so we should just tell him

231. to have a nice day and move on.

232. Well, you know, I'm not saying that either.

233. Ballesteros will never be the bad guy.

234. Not after what he's been through.

235. We're not gonna win that.

236. And our clients will never be the heroes either 'cause...

237. well, the jury doesn't like them.

238. Hell, the whole world doesn't like them.

239. We need to show the jury

240. that this is a story about failed leadership,

241. on both sides.

242. How long did you train for the raid on February 28th?

243. About a week.

244. And during that week, did you ever prepare

245. for a peaceful entry

246. or-or ways in which you might avoid violence?

247. I'm not sure what you mean.

248. Well, what I mean is that the-the warrant you obtained

249. was a knock and serve warrant,

250. which means you're supposed to knock on the door

251. and-and serve a search warrant.

252. My question is, is why wasn't that part of your plan?

253. We had information that suggested that

254. the residents at Mount Carmel

255. might try to kill themselves if Koresh was arrested.

256. We were trying to go in with speed and force to avoid that.

257. What?

258. And, uh, what was the operation

259. to raid Mount Carmel called?

260. Operation Trojan Horse.

261. Is that what you called it?

262. How did you refer to the raid internally

263. among the other agents during training?

264. Operation Showtime.

265. Operation Showtime?

266. Well, that's interesting.

267. Why Showtime?

268. Were there— were there cameras there?

269. There was someone filming, yes.

270. Oh. Well, that's great.

271. Why are we even arguing about what happened?

272. We, we should just watch the tape.

273. Can we see the tape, Agent Ballesteros?

274. No.

275. No? Why not?

276. Because it was lost.

277. It was lost?

278. Well, that's unfortunate.

279. Does the, uh—does the ATF film a lot of its raids?

280. I couldn't answer that.

281. Well, have you been involved in other raids that were filmed?

282. Not that I remember.

283. And how long did it take for the EMTs to arrive

284. to help your wounded?

285. How long? - Yeah. How long?

286. Hours. Not until after the ceasefire.

287. Didn't your leaders make any contingencies

288. for you and your men in case there was a problem?

289. No.

290. No?

291. No, there was no contingency plan for us.

292. Well, what about Happy Meals?

293. McDonald's Happy Meals.

294. Did your leaders make any plans to have Happy Meals on hand?

295. Yes.

296. And how many Happy Meals were brought on this raid?

297. A hundred.

298. A hundred Happy Meals,

299. but not one ambulance, just in case?

300. Why the Happy Meals?

301. They thought it would look good on camera

302. after the raid to-to show the world

303. that we were treating these kids.

304. On camera? - Yes.

305. The cameras that were lost after everything went haywire?

306. Yes.

307. Now, you testified that

308. the Davidians shot first.

309. Yeah, I did. They, they did.

310. And then you and Willis took cover in the dog pen?

311. Right.

312. Boy, those dogs must have been mad

313. the way you guys were attacking their home.

314. Objection. Argumentative.

315. Sustained. Watch yourself, counselor.

316. Were you scared of the dogs?

317. No. - No?

318. Why not?

319. The dogs were dead.

320. They were dead? - Yeah.

321. They'd been shot? - Yes.

322. So when you say the Davidians shot first,

323. what you really mean is that the Davidians shot

324. after you charged in and started shooting,

325. killing their dogs?

326. You don't have to answer right now

327. because you already did about ten months ago.

328. Uh, in an interview you gave to the Texas Rangers

329. a few weeks after the incident,

330. you talked about hearing gunfire

331. as you approached the front door,

332. is that correct?

333. Well, I'm-I'm not sure.

334. I don't remember what I said in that interview.

335. It was a long time ago.

336. Well, let-let me remind you.

337. It says here you heard shots

338. as you exited the trailer

339. and assumed it was the "dog team"

340. who went in first to shoot the dogs

341. so they wouldn't attack anyone during the raid.

342. Does that sound about right?

343. I-I may have said that before,

344. but I don't believe it to be true now.

345. The first shots were the ones

346. that came through the door at us.

347. The shots you jumped away from into a pit

348. that had dead dogs in it?

349. Yeah.

350. I wanna thank you for your service.

351. Thank you.

352. I'm just sorry you served under the kinds of leaders

353. who thought of everything that would look good on the news

354. and nothing about their own men's safety.

355. Objection! - No need. I'm done here.

356. dramatic music plays

357. Hey, Terry.

358. If I was gonna do something,

359. I mean something big,

360. would you help me?

361. Like, what kind of thing?

362. There's a couple more depositions we found.

363. But don't work too hard.

364. We did good today, huh?

365. Do you know what this is?

366. It's discovery for tomorrow's witnesses.

367. In other words, it's all the evidence

368. the prosecutors have pertaining to the witnesses

369. they're gonna call tomorrow in court.

370. Now, usually the defense gets that weeks before the trial.

371. But in this case, I get it at 5:00 p.m.

372. the day before, which means I have to stay up

373. until 2:00 a.m. every night trying to find something

374. I can use in order to do my job defending you.

375. But none of that matters if the jury doesn't like you.

376. I don't—I don't understand.

377. It means I need you to tell your buddy Ruth here

378. to stop scoffing at the witnesses

379. and I need her to wear the damn dress.

380. Today, I have a special treat for y'all.

381. I have asked Vernon to lead the lesson.

382. Vernon?

383. The antediluvians were great sinners.

384. And they did everything they could

385. to misrepresent the image of God, Paul tells us.

386. But then, God made a system...

387. so simple, to be saved, that...

388. all they had to do was get on that ark to be rescued.

389. It was that simple.

390. Rachel, hand me my Bible.

391. And now, we look back on that with amazement,

392. thinking how foolish those antediluvians were.

393. But the thing of it is,

394. we're far greater sinners than they ever were.

395. So how do we know we're not missing our own signs,

396. our own opportunity to be saved?

397. When God tells us,

398. "Get in that ark, Clive Doyle!"

399. How many of us say,

400. "Well, maybe give me a minute there, God.

401. I got all these really important things I'm doing here.

402. I got this laundry I'm doing.

403. The carburetor's leakin'.

404. Man, there's this real good episode

405. of Dukes of Hazzard on the TV.

406. Maybe I'll get on that ark after that.

407. Maybe I can pencil it in for next Tuesday?"

408. When I had my vision in Israel and God told me,

409. "Boy, get those dang people into that ark,"

410. I'm paraphrasing here.

411. I told Him I'd do anything for you people here.

412. Even die for you, if it came down to it.

413. He's catching people's eyes.

414. Better be careful.

415. He has a gift. It's nothing to fear.

416. You moving? - Didn't you hear?

417. They're shutting down our undercover unit.

418. Shutting you down? - Yup.

419. After Waco, our bosses, in their infinite wisdom,

420. decided that domestic terrorism is no longer a primary concern

421. for us as an agency.

422. That we should focus on foreign enemies.

423. Uh-hmm. - Ironically,

424. Waco also fueled the very problem

425. they're trying real hard not to see.

426. You know, I would say, "No offense intended,"

427. but I would be lying.

428. Yeah. All right.

429. Yeah, I got a question for you. - Yeah.

430. Do you know who this fella is?

431. Yup. That is Pappy Millar.

432. Hmm. - Scary dude.

433. Religious extremist,

434. founded Elohim City in Oklahoma,

435. mentored multiple people who went on to kill cops,

436. federal agents.

437. I would steer clear. - Uh-hmm.

438. Hey.

439. You know where this photo was taken?

440. Uh-hmm.

441. That is the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous.

442. Happened just after Ruby Ridge.

443. It was like a meeting of the five families,

444. but white supremacist version.

445. Huh.

446. Bunch of Nazis, KKK, all these assholes,

447. they got together for a picnic.

448. They decided on a new strategy.

449. Apparently, they didn't like the way

450. they were being portrayed in the media,

451. so they decided to start calling themselves "Patriots."

452. Guess it sounded better than Klansmen or Nazis.

453. Uh-hmm.

454. Well, you know what Patriots do.

455. They overthrow a tyranny.

456. I just had a bank robber from Elohim City

457. who must have used that word 14 times.

458. I found this photo in his room.

459. He mentioned there's some kind of payback for Waco coming.

460. I would take that one seriously.

461. You coming, Cogdell?

462. Uh, no. I'm gonna work a little longer.

463. Yeah. You wanna just talk

464. to that waitress, don't you?

465. Whatever happens, happens.

466. All right, man. Good night.

467. Good night.

468. Oh. Hey, Jocelyn, can I get one more of those?

469. Yeah. I got you. - All right.

470. suspenseful music plays

471. What you doing there, padre?

472. I've been watching the trial

473. and researching what happened at Waco.

474. You're doing a good job.

475. Always nice to meet a fan.

476. But you need to go harder at the government.

477. Listen, I, I appreciate the critique,

478. but, uh, I'd like to get a little privacy here,

479. if that's all right.

480. You need to pursue the cover-up

481. with the same energy that you're pursuing

482. the incident itself.

483. You're missing a big story here

484. because, ironically,

485. you don't believe your own argument.

486. Man, what are you talking about?

487. You are trying so hard

488. to make the Davidians look like they were victims.

489. They were victims,

490. during the siege and every day since.

491. You're talking about how the ATF shot first,

492. but you're not talking about the bullet holes

493. in the front door that would prove it.

494. The doors burned up in the fire.

495. No. No, they didn't.

496. Those were metal doors, the Feds are just hiding them.

497. No, they were wood. It's in all the reports

498. and I'm not having a conversation about it

499. with some paranoid conspiracy theorist

500. in the men's room, so— - William Colby,

501. former director of the CIA told me personally

502. that US Federal Agents were picking off Koresh's people

503. during the siege, and then,

504. he was found drowned, so...

505. Okay.

506. Please unlock the door

507. and get out of the way before I throw a punch

508. and embarrass both of us.

509. This is bigger than you think.

510. There is so much more I can tell you.

511. Information I have, photos, documents.

512. I... I just wanna help.

513. While we enjoy this delicious meal,

514. I wanted to share something with you all.

515. I received another message...

516. a vision from God.

517. He told me I was to take a wife.

518. And he was specific, too, with who that wife should be.

519. He showed me her face in the sky

520. with a million shining suns behind her.

521. And he told me that together,

522. she and I would birth the first of the Elders

523. spoken of in Revelation,

524. who will one day sit in judgment over the end times.

525. And her name...

526. was Rachel.

527. The Lord has commanded I take you as my bride.

528. You see it now?

529. You must be misinterpreting your vision.

530. She's just a girl.

531. The prophecy was clear.

532. Then your own desires must be getting in the way.

533. Believe me,

534. I don't like this any better than you do.

535. But God has spoken,

536. and I must follow His dictates where they lead.

537. You used me.

538. You just think I'm an old fool.

539. Did you ever even love me?

540. You snake! Oh!

541. Clive, get the bus!

542. Get out! Get out! Quick!

543. Come on!

544. On the bus, let's go! Come on!

545. Quickly! Get on the bus!

546. Go with them! Go with them!

547. Come on! Fast!

548. Vernon, you...

549. Don't! - Come with us.

550. I can't. I can't leave Lois.

551. It's okay. God told me I'll be back here.

552. All right, let's go.

553. Put your heads down!

554. dramatic music plays

555. Thank you.

556. God will resurrect them.

557. David...

558. everyone we lost.

559. We'll all be together again someday.

560. I don't wanna be in a jail cell when that happens.

561. We'll do our best.

562. The, uh—the front doors to Mount Carmel,

563. they were wood, right?

564. No, metal.

565. All the doors were metal.

566. Why?

567. No.

568. What's this?

569. Well, that's a newsletter from the Militia of Montana,

570. and this is a lovely book called The Turner Diaries.

571. We found both of them at that

572. Aryan Nation flophouse in Arkansas.

573. Now, we've also found copies of this book in raids

574. in Florida, Nevada, Michigan, Montana, and California.

575. Hm.

576. We're not the book police, Gary. This is still America.

577. People can read what they want to.

578. You know what this book's about?

579. It's about trying to ignite

580. a new Civil War in America.

581. And the hero of this book begins

582. by using a truck bomb

583. to blow up FBI headquarters.

584. And by the end, they're storming the US Capitol

585. to kill specific legislators to overthrow the government.

586. That's a little farfetched,

587. don't you think? - No.

588. Not to mention, this thing was published

589. almost 20 years ago.

590. So how is this suddenly an emergency?

591. Because I believe that these groups

592. are using this book to help coordinate their efforts.

593. These militias, they used to be separate,

594. you know, little pockets here and there,

595. we could deal with them.

596. But now, Waco...

597. has done something to them.

598. It's—it's united them.

599. And they're starting to look more

600. like a foreign terrorist network

601. than anything we've ever seen in the US before.

602. All these separate individual cells

603. united by a common ideology...

604. a common enemy, us.

605. Okay. Look, Gary...

606. I know you feel shitty about what happened at Waco.

607. Hell, we all feel shitty about it.

608. It was a shitty situation all around.

609. But it's done, you cannot undo it.

610. I'm not trying to undo it.

611. I'm trying to stop it from happening again.

612. And so am I.

613. The decision's already been made, Gary,

614. above my pay grade.

615. The bureau is now gonna concentrate

616. all of its efforts on foreign terrorism.

617. Never mind. Okay.

618. You know what? I-I, uh...

619. I kept quiet after Waco, you know?

620. I played nice. I kept my mouth shut.

621. But I'm telling you now, Alan, in no uncertain terms,

622. if you won't let me look into this new "Patriot Movement"

623. and they do something stupid,

624. I'm not gonna be quiet about it.

625. Not again.

626. If something terrible happens,

627. I'm gonna have to tell the world

628. that I warned you specifically today.

629. Two weeks.

630. But if you do anything even remotely reckless,

631. I will not wait for the DOJ review to come back, Gary.

632. I will fire you myself.

633. Do you understand? - Yes, sir.

634. So how's a nice girl like you end up a neo-Nazi?

635. Oh.

636. Wow, you get right to it, huh?

637. Yeah.

638. Yeah, I was reading your file.

639. It looks like you went to some good schools,

640. honor student, champion horseback rider.

641. A regular debutante.

642. I was also a pole dancer at Lady Godiva's.

643. Did it say that in there? - Uh-hmm.

644. Well, that's quite a lateral move,

645. pole dancing to joining the Aryan Republican Army,

646. isn't it?

647. I don't know.

648. I was mostly in it for Wild Bill.

649. What can I say? I guess I like the bad boys...

650. and they just love me.

651. I guess what I'm getting at is,

652. did you join just for Bill

653. or are you a true believer?

654. I'm not sure a true believer

655. would be having milkshakes with a Fed.

656. Right.

657. What's this about, Gary?

658. How would you feel about going back to Elohim City...

659. for us?

660. Like an informant? Yeah, an informant.

661. Bad.

662. I feel bad about that.

663. Those guys are crazy.

664. They ever found out I ratted out Wild Bill,

665. well, they'd kill me.

666. They found out I was working with you all?

667. Well, they'd kill me real mean.

668. Well, what are they gonna think if you disappear

669. now that Wild Bill has been arrested?

670. Hmm? That's gonna look pretty suspicious, too.

671. If you help us, we can protect you.

672. You won't be on your own.

673. Just like you guys protected Vicki Weaver?

674. Or like you protected those people down at Waco?

675. No, thank you.

676. I don't need the FBI protecting me.

677. I've been on my own my whole life.

678. Don't try to find me again.

679. This is a CBS News Special Report.

680. John Roberts at the CBS News headquarters in New York.

681. Some six hours after the FBI launched an operation

682. trying to bring the 51-day standoff...

683. People like us were in that building.

684. The kinds of people nobody cares about.

685. If we burned right alongside them,

686. if your wife and son burned in there,

687. nobody would have given a shit about them either.

688. Nobody cares about us,

689. because they don't fear us.

690. when the main building caught fire

691. and flames quickly spread

692. leaving behind a devastating aftermath...

693. But they will.

694. I'm in.

695. Whatever it is you're doing...

696. I'm in.

697. suspenseful music plays

698. rock music plays