Waco: The Aftermath 1x1

1. Once negotiations broke down,

2. we were left with little choice.

3. The decision was made for us to insert gas

4. in an effort to coerce those on the inside to come out.

5. We followed protocol to a T.

6. The Davidians were raining down gunfire on my men.

7. It looked like Christmas out there with bullets hitting

8. our tanks, and my men showed such restraint.

9. Not a single shot was returned from the FBI.

10. Now with that being said, are there tactics

11. or decisions that you would've made differently?

12. Not a one.

13. Not a one, huh?

14. This is not an assault.

15. The siege is over now.

16. The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas.

17. Exit the compound.

18. M60 vehicle,

19. this combat engineering vehicle,

20. uh, pumped tear gas...

21. Gary, the Davidians had a death wish.

22. That's not on the FBI.

23. This thing was never gonna turn out any different than it did.

24. If anything, we should've gone in sooner,

25. once we realized that negotiations

26. weren't yielding any results.

27. No results? Yeah.

28. You know I seem to recall negotiating 35 people out

29. of that building safely, including 21 children.

30. You're acting like we rushed in.

31. We waited 51 days, we gave you 51 days

32. to try to talk 'em out, and you couldn't do it.

33. Why isn't anyone coming out? They should be coming out.

34. No!

35. inside this building.

36. Seventeen of those 95 people, children.

37. Some 30...

38. We give up. We give up. Okay.

39. Somebody help me!

40. We got people down here!

41. Wait! Wait!

42. You failed, you didn't do your job, so we had to do ours.

43. Gentlemen, why don't we all take a break?

44. Hmm?

45. Give everyone a chance to cool down.

46. Gary, you need to get your shit together.

47. We need to come clean, Alan.

48. Oh. - People are angry

49. about what happened in Waco, and they're scared

50. because they think that we did it on purpose.

51. And we're too scared

52. to tell them the truth, that they're wrong.

53. It wasn't part of some master plan.

54. It was just a bunch of bad decisions and incompetence.

55. Speak for yourself, Gary.

56. Your men, they may have been incompetent.

57. Mine sure weren't.

58. Oh, yeah.

59. Well, the medal is in the mail, Mitch.

60. Sunny day today. We can expect

61. much, much more of the same over the next few days.

62. You might wanna do some of those outdoor activities

63. you've been saving up for. - Thanks, Sammy.

64. Coming up next,

65. the trial of the Waco Five

66. begins in San Antonio this week

67. as a federal grand jury indicted five of the surviving

68. Branch Davidians for unlawful possession of firearms,

69. and aiding in the murder of federal officers.

70. You ask me,

71. it's the FBI that should be standing trial,

72. not those religious nuts.

73. Our government just went in there,

74. burned those people alive, women and children.

75. I think every ATF and FBI agent

76. at Waco should go to jail.

77. dramatic music plays

78. theme music plays

79. Noesner. Yeah.

80. It's been awhile.

81. Oh yeah, sure has, since what?

82. The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots?

83. No, I feel like I've seen you since.

84. Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's on the menu today?

85. Well, we got four guys wearing ex-presidents masks.

86. Oh, like that movie Point Break?

87. Never said they were original.

88. No, these guys have been running around all over,

89. robbing banks in Oklahoma,

90. Arkansas, 21 in all.

91. They're efficient, you know, smart, in and out, 90 seconds,

92. so local authorities had had a hard time figuring out

93. where they are until today when we got a last-minute tip

94. that bank was gonna be their next target.

95. Now, we managed to grab three of the guys,

96. but one of them has barricaded himself inside,

97. and he has hostages.

98. We feel all four of these guys are members

99. of the Aryan Republican Army.

100. Oh, great. Nazis.

101. What?

102. Hi, my name's Gary.

103. Who am I speaking with?

104. People call me "Wild Bill".

105. Well, Wild Bill, I'm here to help you.

106. Yeah? Well, you can help me

107. by getting me a helicopter,

108. and I want it now

109. or I'm gonna start killing people.

110. And don't even think about trying to come in here

111. because I got a pipe bomb and I will blow

112. this place sky high if you try it.

113. Let me look into getting you that helicopter.

114. I'm serious!

115. I'm taking you seriously, Wild Bill.

116. Is Bomb Squad present? - Uh-hmm.

117. Good. Keep 'em ready.

118. All right. So, uh, they're gonna need

119. a little time getting you that helicopter.

120. No. I want it now! I do, too.

121. But right now, the only available helicopter

122. is 50 miles away.

123. In the meantime, maybe you can tell me

124. how you got into this mess?

125. Yeah. I got into this mess

126. because somebody has to fight back.

127. You can only push people so far.

128. That's very true.

129. Who gave you permission to use that thing in here?

130. I'm a big boy, I gave myself permission.

131. Machines are not allowed in here without a court order.

132. Okay. Here's my court order.

133. Funny.

134. I don't see my signature on that.

135. Judge Smith.

136. I'm Dan Cogdell. I represent Clive Doyle.

137. You're not defending anybody with that thing in here.

138. I want it gone by the time we begin.

139. Uh, but, Your Honor, I have all my notes in it.

140. Then I suggest you find a way

141. to get your notes out of it.

142. Oh, shit.

143. dramatic music plays

144. Baby killers!

145. How come they hate us so much?

146. They don't even know us.

147. We'll be okay...

148. somehow.

149. You wanted to present a motion?

150. I did, Your Honor.

151. I would ask to predefine inflammatory words.

152. Inflammatory words?

153. Yes, Your Honor, we would move

154. to make certain words inadmissible.

155. Which words would you recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell?

156. Well, for example,

157. we would motion to exclude the word "compound"

158. when referring to the home at Mount Carmel,

159. as the word "compound" has militaristic connotations.

160. At this point the word "compound" has been used

161. a million times to refer to Mount Carmel.

162. But to the defendants this was not a compound,

163. this was their home

164. where they lived and raised children,

165. where they had a God-given right to practice their—

166. Save it for the trial, Mr. Cogdell.

167. Denied. Next.

168. We would like to exclude the term

169. "Branch Davidians".

170. They never call themselves by that name.

171. Objection.

172. If we can't call them Branch Davidians,

173. then what are we supposed to call them?

174. Out to lunch? Well, I think

175. we can all agree that moniker

176. has been thoroughly tarnished by the media.

177. The term "Branch Davidian"

178. was tarnished by their own actions.

179. But, Your Honor, they are not on trial

180. for their religious beliefs.

181. The defense used the term "Branch Davidians"

182. in their own filings.

183. I have a motion here filed

184. by Rocket Rosen of the defense.

185. Who's Rocket Rosen?

186. I am, Your Honor.

187. Your name is Rocket?

188. Yes, Your Honor.

189. I was born on the 4th of July,

190. so my daddy named me Rocket.

191. Well, I was born on October 26, so my daddy named me Walter.

192. Did you file this motion? - I did.

193. But that was a mistake. Motion denied.

194. Next.

195. The word "cult".

196. Do they not yet realize that this was a cult?

197. This was no cult.

198. It was a communal church

199. and David Koresh was their pastor.

200. Once that pastor takes 20 wives

201. and leads his church to mass suicide,

202. I would say the word "cult" is applicable.

203. But the defendants are not on trial for mass suicide.

204. Nobody thinks that any one of them had anything to do

205. with any fire or had multiple wives

206. or took child brides or any of it.

207. Using the word "cult" is an attempt

208. to try our clients for another man's sins.

209. Motion denied.

210. My client Clive Doyle

211. was there 15 years

212. before David Koresh's arrival.

213. Rose and thorn, Karen?

214. My thorn is I didn't sleep

215. very well 'cause Shari kept stealing all the covers.

216. And rose, I got extra oatmeal at breakfast.

217. Well, how about you, Shari?

218. Rose, playing.

219. Thorn, Karen.

220. How about you, Dad?

221. Thorn is my back's been hurting me again.

222. My rose is that I get to spend this moment right now

223. with my two favorite people in the entire world, you two.

224. I have never wavered on this, George,

225. you don't wear a sidearm for Sabbath service.

226. Why do you think you're so special, mama?

227. That you get to make all the rules?

228. Because I am your prophet.

229. Don't mind him.

230. My name is Vernon Howell.

231. I'm looking for the Prophet Lois Roden.

232. Come in.

233. Service is starting.

234. That's what you don't get.

235. It's about being a patriot

236. 'cause this country has lost its way.

237. It's turned against the people

238. who made it great in the first place.

239. So what are we supposed to do?

240. Just wait for things to change

241. or do we fight back?

242. And in your eyes, robbing banks

243. is a way of fighting back?

244. No, robbing banks was never the point.

245. Then what is?

246. Yeah. You'll see.

247. Yeah, payback's coming.

248. It's coming sooner than you think.

249. Look, we've been talking now for 20 hours.

250. And it seems to me that you and I

251. aren't gonna agree on much.

252. So maybe we could focus

253. on what we do agree on.

254. Yeah, like what?

255. Like you and your friends have robbed

256. 21 banks successfully,

257. nobody hurt, perfectly executed.

258. No, I'm not admitting the other banks.

259. I'm not asking you to do that.

260. But you see to the world right now, you're a legend.

261. You're Robin Hood, 22 banks and you haven't

262. hurt a single person.

263. Now you'll do a few years' time for sure.

264. But then, who knows?

265. Maybe you'd sell your movie rights

266. to Hollywood and go sip margaritas on a beach.

267. But the second you take someone's life,

268. you are just another murderer.

269. And nobody will care

270. what you have to say ever again.

271. You come out of that bank and you're gonna have options.

272. You come out of that bank, you're gonna have a future.

273. You want people to hear what you have to say,

274. then come out of the bank.

275. Don't shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed!

276. Clear! Get down on your knees.

277. Hands on your head.

278. Interlace your fingers.

279. Our best strategy is going to be to convince

280. the jury that David Koresh was misunderstood.

281. We need to humanize him, make him seem less

282. like the boogeyman, more relatable.

283. David Koresh was

284. an opportunistic narcissistic piece of shit.

285. We're not in the business of defending Koresh.

286. He's dead.

287. Well, if that's how you feel,

288. then why'd you even take this case?

289. The issue can't be whether or not

290. Koresh was the messiah.

291. If that's our case, then they win,

292. because guess what?

293. He wasn't.

294. Our case has to be about the fact

295. the United States government

296. raided these people's home without cause.

297. And it was their overreach, their hubris

298. that led to the deaths of 76 people including 17 children.

299. And in America, you don't get to do that

300. because, if they can do what they did to our clients

301. and get away with it, it'll give everyone

302. with a badge and a gun from a Wackenhut security guard

303. to Janet Reno the authority

304. to do whatever they want,

305. to whomever they want,

306. however they want.

307. And that's the argument we need to make.

308. Amen. Yeah.

309. What in the hell is that asshole doing here?

310. You get lost, Johnston, or are you,

311. uh, here to beg for mercy?

312. Neither. I've got an offer for you.

313. They're offering 15 years with the possibility of parole.

314. What would I have to do if I did take the deal?

315. You'd have to plead guilty and then testify

316. against the other members of your group.

317. No, wait, wait, wait.

318. Before you close your mind to it,

319. you should know that they've offered

320. the same deal to all five of you.

321. If you don't take it, you face the possibility

322. of life without parole.

323. But I didn't do anything.

324. Clive, unfortunately, that doesn't matter.

325. It's a conspiracy charge.

326. If any single one of you is found guilty,

327. then you're all guilty.

328. If any one of you pulled the trigger of a gun,

329. then you all pulled the trigger.

330. You're gonna rise and fall together.

331. You got until opening statements to decide

332. and then the deal's off the table.

333. Here is what is going to happen.

334. Instead of arguing about this juror

335. or that juror,

336. going back and forth, you, then you.

337. I am gonna save us a whole lot of time

338. and the American taxpayer

339. a lot of money and help pick the jury myself.

340. So you can all relax.

341. Objection, Your Honor.

342. You can't object to me. I'm the judge.

343. Well, then, uh, exception.

344. Noted.

345. Can he do that?

346. How do you feel about people who join a cult?

347. Objection.

348. Exception, Your Hon— shit.

349. How do you feel

350. about people who join

351. extremist religious groups?

352. I do have negative feelings towards people

353. who abuse children if that's what you're asking.

354. Or people who give their sense of choice

355. over to false prophets.

356. You can stay.

357. So, Clive, how'd you come to be here?

358. My mom and I heard some of Lois's teachings,

359. so we followed that message all the way here.

360. That was 15 years ago.

361. All the way from Australia?

362. I don't think I'll ever leave.

363. Wow.

364. How about you? What brought you here?

365. Me?

366. Well, I learned to read by reading the Bible.

367. I can't see so well, you know, all the letters

368. get mixed up and stuff, so I have trouble reading books,

369. but the Bible.

370. Man, I could just sit and read it like magic.

371. And you know what struck me?

372. Huh.

373. I mean, for years, I asked anyone who might know,

374. "Hey, what happened to all those old prophets?

375. Are there any still living now?

376. Or did they all get stuck here in this old book?"

377. And they'd say, "Quiet, boy.

378. Sit down and listen to what we're teachin'."

379. But nobody could answer that one question.

380. So I turned to God and I asked Him,

381. "Please, if there's a prophet, please lead me there."

382. Then three days later, out of the blue,

383. my grandma tells me about some prophet out here

384. on the plains of Waco.

385. Her name was Lois Roden,

386. and she lived at a place called Mount Carmel.

387. Went to my room, packed my stuff,

388. got here as fast as I could.

389. That's... like a miracle.

390. Yeah, that's what I thought too.

391. Did they offer you all the plea deal too?

392. My lawyer told me the worst thing

393. that could happen is someone else

394. taking the deal if I don't.

395. Man, the government wants their pound of flesh

396. and they're gonna get it

397. if we don't stay strong and stick together.

398. Look around this room.

399. Do you expect anyone is actually going to think

400. Clive shot federal agents in cold blood?

401. Or Ruth?

402. It doesn't matter what they think.

403. If they think any of us did it, then we all did it.

404. I wasn't even there.

405. Do you think any of this is about truth?

406. Or fairness? Or justice? Because it's not.

407. It is about anger.

408. They are gonna roll over us no matter what we do.

409. So we may as well get through this

410. with our dignity intact.

411. The government can make up whatever story they want

412. about what happened inside Mount Carmel,

413. but no one knows what you did

414. or didn't do behind closed doors,

415. nobody but the people in this room.

416. So if we stay united

417. and refute their story, then...

418. maybe we have a chance.

419. Oh, shit.

420. Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick your brain about something?

421. I was looking at Wild Bill's file.

422. Why? We already put him in jail.

423. Well, Wild Bill and his friends successfully robbed 21 banks.

424. But in their files,

425. it doesn't seem as though they made

426. any conspicuous purchases.

427. That, combined with his comment about "payback,"

428. it was bugging me

429. and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

430. So I took a closer look and I found this.

431. What am I looking at?

432. You see that flag?

433. That's the same flag they flew over at Mount Carmel.

434. David Koresh designed it himself.

435. Huh.

436. Did Wild Bill have some connection to Waco?

437. I doubt it.

438. The flag is probably used more as a recruitment tool

439. to fire people up.

440. Any sense where that photo was taken?

441. It doesn't say in the file.

442. It looks like Elohim City to me.

443. It's a town of sorts.

444. Started in the early '70s by a group of former Mennonites,

445. which gave birth to the Christian Identity movement,

446. which is, basically—

447. Christianity for White Supremacists.

448. Uh-hmm.

449. We'd need a serious warrant and a small army to go in there.

450. Something which, after Waco, I don't think any of our bosses

451. would be willing to take a chance on.

452. Clive Doyle, you have a visitor.

453. Let's go.

454. Some of the other families

455. mentioned something about a plea deal?

456. It's true. They've offered one.

457. I'm not sure I'm gonna take the deal, Karen.

458. Why not?

459. Because they want us to say it was our fault.

460. And it wasn't.

461. Just get out, Dad.

462. Shari's gone, everything's gone.

463. How much more do you feel like you have to suffer?

464. I loved David too, but it's over!

465. I need my father back.

466. I know, but...

467. You've already lost, Dad.

468. There's no more point in fighting it.

469. Anne...

470. she needs her grandfather.

471. What?

472. Really?

473. There's your rose.

474. Is it?

475. dramatic music plays

476. It's 15 years of loyalty,

477. 15 years of putting my life on the line and then for what?

478. For what?

479. Hey, hey, get your hands off me, man.

480. Get off me.

481. Weren't you— - Yeah.

482. Yeah, yeah, we've met.

483. Right.

484. Do you wanna get a drink?

485. On the fire ants?

486. On the goddamn fire ants.

487. Oh, Jesus.

488. I mean, why anybody would build their heaven on earth

489. on top of a goddamn fire ant hill is just beyond me.

490. So, come on, why'd—why did you—

491. why did you ask me here?

492. Come on, I know it wasn't to talk about fire ants.

493. Because my wife thinks I should talk to someone

494. and, uh...

495. there aren't a lot of people

496. who know what it was like to be there.

497. You have regrets?

498. I just keep wondering if I did this differently

499. or if I said that differently,

500. then maybe things could've turned out different, you know.

501. Yeah, I do that too.

502. And then there are times that I wonder if you were just...

503. just damned from the start.

504. We weren't damned from the start.

505. We damned ourselves through our own stupidity.

506. Mmm.

507. What do you know about Elohim City?

508. I know they're a bunch of racist assholes,

509. but other than that, you know, it's not my department,

510. so I don't really pay attention to it.

511. But this man from Elohim City, he was so angry.

512. Uh-hmm.

513. And I just keep thinking about the...

514. people protesting at the barricades at Waco

515. and I just feel this...

516. this undercurrent of rage in America.

517. And I think we helped create the monster

518. we're trying to stop.

519. Look, I know someone working the Elohim City case.

520. And, uh, I might be able to set you up.

521. This is blasphemy!

522. I won't stand for it.

523. I speak the truth.

524. God handles the consequences.

525. George, the Holy Spirit is feminine.

526. We live in a male dominated society

527. and it has resulted in a male dominated translation

528. of the Bible.

529. There is the Father, there is the Son,

530. and the Holy Spirit is mother.

531. Lois is right.

532. What did you just say?

533. I said, "Lois is right."

534. I never saw it before

535. but she's mentioned all over the Old Testament.

536. Proverbs 31:25,

537. "She is clothed with strength and dignity,

538. and she laughs without fear of the future."

539. Proverbs 31:10,

540. "She is far more precious than jewels."

541. Psalms 46:5,

542. "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved."

543. Quiet! - Proverbs 31:26,

544. "She opens her mouth with wisdom,

545. and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue."

546. Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22.

547. There are dozens of examples in the Bible

548. where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "she".

549. I mean, George, are you saying the Bible is wrong?

550. No.

551. Of course, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong.

552. tense music plays

553. Probably won't get you laid,

554. but it'll make you look more respectable.

555. Have you decided on the plea deal?

556. This is your last chance to take it.

557. You should be more careful with George.

558. He can be pretty mean.

559. I'm not worried about old George Roden.

560. He's not the first bully I dealt with.

561. I'm sure he won't be the last.

562. "So do not fear, for I am with you.

563. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God.

564. I will strengthen you and I will help you.

565. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand."

566. Isaiah said that.

567. You can go hide all your life,

568. but then the whole world

569. winds up getting run by the George Rodens everywhere.

570. That's no way to please the Lord.

571. No.

572. You gotta show that faith.

573. You got to show it by standing up,

574. by doing what's right,

575. regardless of what all them bullies

576. tell you what they think you should do.

577. It's just that George is sick in the head.

578. He's—he's violent.

579. You don't understand what he's capable of.

580. He doesn't know what I'm capable of either.

581. I'm stronger than they realize.

582. And so are you, Clive Doyle.

583. I don't give in to bullies.

584. It's our job to do what's right.

585. And it's God's job to sort out the rest.

586. Okay, then let's go give 'em hell.

587. So, I've just had breakfast

588. with defendant Schroeder,

589. and she's going to be playing for the home team now,

590. so get some statements over...

591. But I just wanted to let you know for now.

592. Good morning, by the way.

593. Kathy Schroeder just flipped.

594. She took the plea deal

595. and she's turning state's witness.

596. Kathy's going to testify against us?

597. Yeah.

598. dramatic music plays

599. Now this is a simple story...

600. with two clear sides.

601. The government agents

602. who went in to serve a legal search warrant...

603. and the Branch Davidians, led by David Koresh,

604. who adhered to a philosophy of death.

605. A philosophy that led Koresh

606. to train his people for battle

607. and arm them for war,

608. so that when those agents approached Mount Carmel

609. to do their legal duty,

610. the defendants laid in wait with guns in their hands.

611. And when the agents got close enough,

612. the Branch Davidians opened fire,

613. murdering four federal officers

614. in cold blood.

615. These men and women aren't killers.

616. They're victims.

617. First, they were victimized by David Koresh,

618. a charismatic con man who brainwashed them

619. into believing he was a messiah on earth.

620. And then they were victimized by the ATF,

621. who led an unnecessary

622. ill-advised assault on their home

623. that left 76 of their friends and family,

624. and even their children, dead.

625. You're making us look like sheep,

626. like we just blindly followed David

627. with no minds of our own.

628. This isn't the strategy we talked about before.

629. We weren't brainwashed.

630. We were defending something real.

631. We all believed in

632. because we saw it with our own eyes.

633. My husband was shot dead

634. and ripped to pieces

635. by a government tank because of those beliefs.

636. It's not just the four of us on trial here.

637. When you say that what we believe in is stupid,

638. you're saying that the people that we loved

639. who burned in that building died for nothing.

640. I don't give a rat's ass about your religion.

641. And frankly, I don't even care if you look sane.

642. All I care about is keeping you out of jail.

643. That's my only focus here.

644. And our defense tactics have to change,

645. because Kathy Schroeder flipped on you.

646. Before, you were all a united front,

647. whatever the prosecutor said happened at Mount Carmel,

648. was speculation.

649. Now, one of your own is going to corroborate their claims.

650. Kathy is gonna tell the jury that she passed out guns

651. to each and every one of you during the siege.

652. I wasn't even there.

653. Well, then she's gonna say you bought the guns,

654. make you into an arms dealer with a death wish.

655. She's gonna turn the rest of you into an army out for blood.

656. So if-if we can't say you never held a gun,

657. we have to make the jury believe

658. that you had no choice but to pick one up.

659. You had no choice but to protect yourselves,

660. because David Koresh conditioned you

661. to do whatever he said,

662. and the government charged in trying to kill your children.

663. But we didn't just do whatever he told us to do.

664. We-we made choices. Yeah, look,

665. you can be as pissed as you want at me in here,

666. but when we're in that courtroom,

667. you need to sit there, and you need to look sorry.

668. You need to stop shaking your head

669. and-and stop glowering at the prosecutors.

670. And you, you need to wear a dress.

671. Yeah, something that makes you look softer

672. and more vulnerable.

673. I don't wear dresses.

674. Well, then we'll get you one.

675. But you need to start doing your part.

676. You need to start acting like the victim.

677. You need to be honest about who you are.

678. Proverbs speaks to this,

679. calling for insight,

680. not being afraid to ask for help,

681. so that we can better understand ourselves.

682. Vernon, what are you struggling with?

683. How can we help you?

684. I struggle with my own desires,

685. which I feel so strong sometimes.

686. What kind of desires?

687. Pleasure of the flesh.

688. Sometimes it's so strong,

689. I have to relieve that pressure several times a day.

690. Oh!

691. It's okay. It's okay.

692. You should feel comfortable to share.

693. You shouldn't feel embarrassed.

694. I never said I was embarrassed.

695. Everyone has their own struggles.

696. No temptation has overtaken you

697. that is not common to man.

698. God is faithful.

699. He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but—

700. But with that temptation,

701. He will also provide the way of escape.

702. Corinthians 10:13.

703. But when that temptation comes over me,

704. I wonder if she's ever known loving hands on her body,

705. if she's ever felt true pleasure

706. and I'm overcome...

707. with desire until I feel like I might go mad.

708. You were, uh—

709. you were pretty honest at Bible study.

710. I promised myself that when I came here,

711. I wouldn't hold back any bit of myself...

712. even those little ugly parts

713. that I'd rather sometimes just sweep under the rug.

714. I—I felt the same way when I came here.

715. Like I wanted to give all of myself.

716. Kindred spirits, I guess.

717. Looks good over here. - Oh, do you need me?

718. Not just yet.

719. Actually, uh, I just came over to talk to Vernon.

720. Uh, Vernon,

721. I'm getting ready to go on my yearly trip to Israel.

722. And I think you should join me...

723. to study.

724. dramatic music plays

725. Nothing would give me more pleasure

726. than learning right from your hands.

727. Good.

728. That's settled then.

729. dramatic music plays

730. Hi. Uh, excuse me. Are you Angie?

731. Jacob sent me.

732. Oh, yes. Yeah.

733. Gary? - Right.

734. Okay. Hi. - Yeah.

735. So you drew the short straw, huh?

736. Yeah. Our informant's name is Carol Howe.

737. And, um, we didn't know how seriously to take her

738. because she's not the most reliable-seeming informant.

739. Uh-hmm.

740. How'd she wind up here in the hospital?

741. Did they find out she was informing and hurt her?

742. Actually, kind of the opposite.

743. No, Wild Bill actually beat her up pretty bad

744. before the robbery... - Uh-hmm.

745. and she got pissed, so she tipped us off

746. as a way to get revenge. - Mmm.

747. She's not a big fan of authority,

748. to say the least, and, uh, she's a bit erratic.

749. How so?

750. God damn it! Come on!

751. TV signal's shit in here, Angie.

752. Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary.

753. How's Wild Bill?

754. Did he ask about me?

755. He lawyered up pretty quickly,

756. so I honestly don't know what he's asking about.

757. Is he doing okay? Yeah,

758. for someone who's gonna spend ten to twenty years in prison.

759. I didn't mean to get him locked up that long.

760. But that asshole shouldn't have laid his hands on me like that.

761. You don't mess with a lady's face!

762. That's right.

763. That's right.

764. Uh-hmm.

765. So Wild Bill had made some allusions

766. to some kind of payback against the government.

767. Did he ever speak to you about anything like that?

768. Gary?

769. I ain't some kind of narc.

770. I'm just a person who's sick of her boyfriend's shit.

771. Yeah, fair enough.

772. But, uh, I'd say there's a difference

773. between being a narc and saving the lives

774. of innocent people.

775. Ain't nobody innocent.

776. Really?

777. Well, what about Elohim City? Did you hear anyone there...

778. speak about some sort of planned payback?

779. I don't know about Elohim City.

780. tense music plays

781. Come on, Carol, this is important.

782. I'm trying to keep people from getting hurt.

783. tense music plays

784. Dammit.

785. I don't—the people you're asking

786. about at Elohim City,

787. they didn't really talk to me much, okay?

788. And I never heard anything specific about anything,

789. but I will tell you...

790. they talk a lot about how the government

791. has turned on them.

792. dramatic music plays

793. They talk about a holy war that's coming.

794. And they're gonna be on the frontlines.

795. But that's nothing on its own.

796. You know, I know plenty of people who talk like that.

797. But the thing about Elohim City is,

798. it's full of people who tend to mean what they say.

799. What does that mean exactly?

800. It means if payback is coming,

801. then I would guess it's gonna come from there.

802. Yeah.

803. suspenseful music plays

804. rock music plays

805. Nowhere to run to, uh, uh

806. Nowhere to hide