The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst 1x5

1. Wolf Blitzer: It won't be the death chamber,

2. and it might not even be prison.

3. Robert Durst could soon be back on the street.

4. I think it's horrible. I, I can't believe he got off.

5. My take, this is scary,

6. that this guy is going to be free,

7. just based on what he did with the body, et cetera.

8. And he's a possible suspect in two other murders?

9. It was utter disbelief. I mean, utter disbelief.

10. The "New York Times," generally not known for their

11. ironic humorous take on things,

12. "New York City Real Estate Heir Is Acquitted of Murder in Texas.

13. Durst, Who Cut Up a Body..."

14. Ha ha ha! "Argued Self-Defense."

15. That's as close as "The New York Times" will ever come

16. to literally just making a joke on the front page.

17. That's like "The New York Times" just going,

18. "Can you believe this?"

19. Nothing happens the way it's supposed to happen

20. when it comes to Bobby Durst,

21. and I've become accustomed to

22. expecting things not to make sense.

23. You chopped up your neighbor. Tell us about that.

24. Well, he raged at me and, as I was defending myself,

25. I fell, and accidentally, uh, chopped him up.

26. And of course, "The New York Post"

27. strikes a more cautionary pose.

28. "Run For Your Lives."

29. Murder 1, you know, we're gonna go,

30. "Murder 1, this is a slam dunk."

31. That's the phrase that was used

32. by the Galveston Police to me in person.

33. "Slam dunk, Jim."

34. There are some people that, no matter how much

35. money they threw at the case,

36. were convicted and shouldn't have been.

37. And there are people that escape responsibility

38. because they're able to mount a really effective defense.

39. Do I think it's unfair? Yeah, I do think it's unfair.

40. But, we are in a capitalistic system,

41. and the people that make the money can drive the Cadillacs,

42. and people that don't make as much money

43. have to get— buy a used car.

44. Did you have anything to do with Susan Berman's death?

45. Did you murder your wife?

46. Whether it's the LAPD bringing him to trial,

47. whether it's Westchester County District Attorney's Office

48. bringing him to trial,

49. whether it's the FBI bringing him to trial,

50. whether it's the security guard at Disney World

51. bringing him to trial, I really don't care.

52. I hope they get a conviction.

53. I hope if they, if whoever prosecutes him,

54. I hope they get a conviction.

55. Because I really believe our society is much safer

56. with him behind bars without him roaming around.

57. Robert Durst, voice-There are times when I'm in a situation

58. where I, I will have people staring at me.

59. I can tell they're talking about me.

60. And they're telling somebody else that, you know, I'm me.

61. There's a lot of people out there

62. who think I killed my wife, that I killed Susan Berman,

63. that I intentionally murdered Morris Black.

64. "And it's quite possible that

65. he's killed a whole slew of other people."

66. That is what I would think if I was

67. as familiar with the media as I am about me.

68. Hello.

69. Oh, Nicky! How are you?

70. Can I have a name for the drink?

71. Bob.

72. And you got a tall Americano, right?

73. Yes, we do. And what do we owe you?

74. $5.44.

75. Thank you.

76. The whole Bob Durst headline

77. had absolutely no affect on the Durst Organization's ability

78. to work and thrive in New York.

79. Douglas Durst is the chairman of

80. the Durst Organization, one of the most powerful companies

81. in Manhattan real estate for almost a century.

82. This past summer, the Port Authority

83. awarded the Durst Organization the right to take over leasing,

84. management, and operation of the Freedom Tower.

85. Bob's case, it's like something that's over there

86. and totally separate from the Durst Organization,

87. because there's a whole generation of people that don't,

88. have never had contact with, with Bob.

89. Bob was more, like, on the periphery from my memory.

90. He was, you know, like my mom's older brother.

91. Except for those first few months in early '82,

92. when my aunt was missing and it was in the papers.

93. And I guess it was on TV or whatever.

94. Um, it was just not talked about at all.

95. And, you know, I was 11 when that happened.

96. Later on in my twenties it was like, "Oh, and by the way,

97. "your uncle, Robert Durst, might have

98. something to do with her disappearance."

99. So that's like, "OK."

100. I mean, I, I don't know how one is supposed to react to that.

101. I feel the way I reacted to, which made sense at the time,

102. was, you know, my parents were like,

103. "Look, there's nothing we can do,

104. and we just don't talk about it, whatever."

105. And I don't blame them for doing that or not doing anything.

106. But I'm not happy about the fact that it's 30 years later,

107. and there's a Berlin Wall of silence.

108. Unfortunately, there is no haven from

109. what's going on with my brother,

110. as it's in the papers quite frequently.

111. But it's not something that we discuss,

112. and not something that we have any involvement in.

113. I knew as soon as the verdict came down in Galveston

114. that I couldn't get the closure

115. that I wanted for Kathleen's family.

116. That then put it back on the front burner

117. in terms of, "OK, guys.

118. "Let's regroup, find out what we've got.

119. "Find out if we can get anything else,

120. and where we go from here."

121. We really wanted to try to figure out if there was anyone

122. from in the family who'd break and give us something.

123. One of the things that always bothered me about the case,

124. I mean, here is Seymour Durst, one of the 5 most powerful

125. real estate people in the city,

126. and his daughter-in-law goes missing.

127. And there's not one hint of it in the police files,

128. that this is a big, gigantic case.

129. There's no interviews with anybody from Bob's family

130. in the original case folder, which is kind of strange.

131. You know, if Seymour Durst is worth

132. a couple hundred million dollars, you want to find out

133. what he thinks about his daughter-in-law missing.

134. Was your dad engaged in any way

135. when Kathie disappeared?

136. Did he do anything?

137. Oh, he, he, um,

138. really, really wanted to leave it to me.

139. Do you think that, that Seymour ever thought

140. that you might have had something to do

141. with her disappearance?

142. I haven't the faintest idea.

143. I highly, highly, highly doubt it,

144. but Seymour's thoughts were inscrutable.

145. 10, 11 weeks after the case began, I received a call.

146. And a male voice on the other end, "Hi, Mike."

147. And I said, "Who's this?"

148. "This is Nick."

149. And I said, "Nick who?"

150. And he says, "Nick Scoppetta."

151. "Bob Durst, you know, really appreciates

152. "the work that you're doing and is very satisfied.

153. "But, you know, Bob is a very busy guy,

154. "and that I would appreciate that all,

155. all other communication going forward you do through me."

156. And that's the classic lawyering up.

157. Now, if you've got, you know, nothing to hide,

158. and you've dropped your wife off at the train station,

159. why would you go out and hire a criminal defense attorney?

160. Nick Scoppetta was your lawyer

161. to defend you from the potential of accusations.

162. He was my lawyer, but he was

163. supposed to find Kathie Durst.

164. I mean, if he could find Kathie Durst,

165. there'd be no accusations.

166. Was he supposed to find Kathie?

167. Yes. It was the whole intent of it.

168. Do you think that Nick did work

169. to try to find Kathie?

170. Yes! He brought in a private investigator

171. who used to be a cop in, or used to be

172. a big cop in that precinct.

173. What was the name? Ed Wright.

174. Hello.

175. Ed Wright was able to get lots of stuff from the police.

176. He knew the police. The police liked him.

177. He was able to get information

178. that was theoretically unavailable.

179. Who thought what? Who said what?

180. It's titled "Discrepancies in the Recollection

181. of Various Principals."

182. It's Ed Wright's view of where there are inconsistencies

183. in his own client's accounting of what, what went on

184. the night his wife disappeared.

185. Good evening. She talked on the telephone

186. with her husband, then she vanished.

187. And no one has seen Kathleen Durst since.

188. This particular report indicates how Bob Durst

189. had changed his story to his own investigator

190. about where he called Kathie on the night of January 31.

191. In the first interview with Wright,

192. Mr. Durst stated that he called from his own house.

193. On the second interview, he told Mr. Wright

194. that he'd made the call to his wife

195. from a payphone in a restaurant.

196. He later on stated that he had called Kathie from a payphone

197. between the house and the train station.

198. He was kind of all over the board.

199. Once Wright was telling these people

200. that there's deception on the part of their son and brother,

201. I would think that behind the scenes there was a great deal of

202. alarm concerning this matter.

203. Police are satisfied that Mrs. Durst

204. made it to the couple's apartment on Riverside Drive.

205. During our investigation, the doorman told us he saw her

206. arrive home that Sunday evening and go to her apartment.

207. But in an interview conducted by Mr. Wright,

208. the doorman told him that actually he didn't see her.

209. He would have been the guy to bring her up.

210. And if he didn't see her, she wasn't there.

211. The Durst Family— his father or brothers—

212. never offered to help us, or never said,

213. "Look, we have a private investigator involved in it.

214. Anything he finds he'll share with you."

215. They just further backed away.

216. Me? I must have had 10 or a dozen meetings,

217. including the ones in our office

218. where Douglas was usually there,

219. and the ones in, in Nick's office.

220. 5, 6. Like that.

221. I think at this point if they admit that they knew

222. anything back in 1982, makes them complicit.

223. And they don't want that shame to come on them.

224. "Oh, I didn't say anything then because I was afraid of..."

225. Whatever, whatever the deal is,

226. they just can't come forward now.

227. And I don't, I don't expect them to.

228. It's upsetting to think that

229. because you're living up there on Mt. Olympus,

230. it's not necessary to talk to regular people

231. about extraordinary problems.

232. You know, a disappearance of a woman, it's a tragedy.

233. It's a trauma.

234. It's like a wound, you know.

235. Whatever I'm going through as a member of the Durst family,

236. I can't imagine what it's like

237. to be a member of the McCormack family,

238. my Aunt Kathie's family.

239. She disappeared two weeks after I was born.

240. So, I wasn't really aware of the first,

241. first years of this tragedy, when it was most raw.

242. You know, I only came kind of to an understanding of it

243. when I was an early teenager— 12, 13 years old—

244. when people started remarking on our physical resemblance.

245. I mean, I haven't seen this. Oh, my God.

246. This could be me.

247. Yeah, that's incredible.

248. It's chilling for me.

249. Jim McCormack: You know that fact that, you know, my mom,

250. who was a contemporary of Seymour Durst,

251. never even got a courtesy call to say,

252. "How are you doing? How can we help?"

253. has always stuck in my craw.

254. And I never got a call from

255. Wendy or Tommy or, or Doug.

256. I didn't expect a call from Bob.

257. It's been like, you know, just an ignored family.

258. I wish I could say that it, it brought everybody closer,

259. but I don't think that would be the truth.

260. You know, I think... it was this thing

261. because there was no closure.

262. It's not, it's not like losing someone and knowing why,

263. where you can all rally around a common understanding

264. or a common emotion or range of emotions.

265. This was so, everything was so shrouded in mystery.

266. There was so much anger, and no opportunity to truly grieve.

267. And I think that maybe missing that grieving process

268. was hard on the family.

269. I mean, I think, I think that's why it's still,

270. we're still talking about it.

271. 30 years

272. as of January 31 of this year.

273. Yeah, I went to mass that morning.

274. I remembered Kathie.

275. And actually, I spoke in front of

276. the congregation that was there.

277. And it had prayers said for Kathie,

278. and we also had prayers said for Bob.

279. For Kathie, for her peace.

280. And for Bob, for his conscience.

281. Maybe something will come of this, huh?

282. Wouldn't it be nice? You never know.

283. You read those, "Years later, they found out this

284. and they found out that."

285. And there might be somebody out there

286. that knows something and is keeping quiet. So...

287. I'd started to write this essay

288. about my Aunt Kathie's disappearance as a way to heal.

289. I forget if I had the idea initially

290. or somebody in my family may have suggested

291. I could talk to Douglas to get his take.

292. The way it ended up, it was a deal.

293. That's what it was.

294. I get to call him on the phone for 15 minutes.

295. "No, he wants to email."

296. "No, it's 10 questions."

297. "No, it's 5." "No, it's 3."

298. And I think that's what it wound up at.

299. There was 3 questions.

300. I think Question Number One was

301. "Do, uh... what memories do you have of Aunt Kathie?"

302. And his answer was "My memories of Kathie are my memories."

303. Question Number Two I believe was

304. "Have you seen the movie "All Good Things,"

305. "or are you aware that those filmmakers

306. are making a documentary?"

307. And his answer was "No."

308. And then the third question was

309. "Do you think that the Westchester D.A.

310. will reopen the case on my Aunt Kathie?"

311. And his answer was "I don't have any knowledge

312. of how the Westchester D.A. operates"

313. or something like that, and that was it.

314. We're going to see Bob Durst's brother Douglas.

315. See what we can learn face-to-face

316. by getting to know the man a bit.

317. Have you ever met him before?

318. I've never met him before.

319. I've seen him around a few social occasions.

320. But we're going to go to a dinner in his honor.

321. Can I interrupt you?

322. First I want to congratulate you. Thank you.

323. Then I want to tell you I'm Andrew Jarecki.

324. Oh, you are.

325. I mean you no harm. I'm, I'm interested in,

326. you know, at some point, us getting a chance to talk.

327. Well, I've tried. It's not my fault.

328. You know, I'd be happy to come

329. sit down and talk at some point

330. if you're, you know, so motivated.

331. Off the record, or, you know,

332. just sort of say what we're working on.

333. That's my idea.

334. Well, anyway, congratulations.

335. I wanted to just say "hi."

336. You know, it's as if Doug has become

337. the eldest son of the Durst family.

338. It must be very strange for Bob to not exist.

339. You know? For Bob to be this guy who...

340. I mean, it gives you a little of an idea of why, you know,

341. why he wants to be in our film.

342. Robert Durst, voice- I worked here my whole time.

343. The whole time— '74 to '92-ish.

344. Wow.

345. We had the 32nd floor.

346. Well, you know, a long time ago now.

347. But that's where I spent those 18 years.

348. Yeah, you know, you can't set up

349. any tripods on the property without, uh...

350. OK, we have no tripods. OK, OK.

351. Do you, can you tell me

352. where you work, do you work here?

353. Yeah, I work for, I'm security for the building. I patrol...

354. Who owns the building? Huh?

355. Who owns the building?

356. The building is Royal Realty.

357. A company called Royal Realty.

358. They own the building.

359. But that, the "D" on your thing, is that...?

360. Yes, yes. Why, why, who are you with?

361. We're actually making a film about Robert Durst.

362. Oh, um, I'm, I'm not authorized

363. to give you any information at this time.

364. You know? OK.

365. Thank you very much, sir.

366. OK, Doug. All right.

367. But it's not a secret that that's a "D" for Durst...

368. Security guard: OK, I understand that.

369. But I'm not authorized to give any information.

370. I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position.

371. All right. Thank you.

372. Well, I'm here with Andrew and 4 other people

373. being filmed in Times Square.

374. And as soon as we got here,

375. immediately Douglas' security people were there.

376. Make sure you get all the profile.

377. What are you following us around for?

378. Robert Durst: When they saw all the cameras,

379. they all were on the telephone calling whomever.

380. There must have been 6 of them.

381. And they, uh, watched us, and Andrew filmed them.

382. And that's how I spent the last hour and a half.

383. How do you feel about your brother Douglas Durst?

384. Robert Durst: I don't get along with him.

385. Why not?

386. I'd have to go back

387. to when we were 5.

388. Let's go back to when you were 5.

389. Why don't you get along with him?

390. We, we,

391. I, I think I remember he stole my toys.

392. We're talking about a sibling rivalry

393. that's quite advanced in terms of who's going to run

394. a billion-dollar business.

395. And the eldest doesn't win that,

396. and it goes to, you know, the, the second eldest.

397. And, um...

398. You could argue that Bob's failure to be chosen

399. to take on the family business

400. was a betrayal of biblical proportions.

401. Robert Durst on phone: Did I tell you that I went

402. to his Katonah house?

403. Charatan on phone: Uh, I think I read that you did,

404. but I didn't, I don't remember if you told me.

405. Robert Durst: I was driving around these places I grew up,

406. my family places, and...

407. Oh, it was in the newspaper then.

408. Robert Durst: Yeah, yeah. But, but, but

409. I really went... my plan...

410. Don't say it. OK?

411. Robert Durst: I'm definitely not going to say it.

412. OK. But you told me what your plans were,

413. and I told you that I knew, I had a feeling, I suspected.

414. Remember? If I suspected, he knew it, too.

415. While Bob was on the run,

416. he pulled into the driveway of his brother's home in Katonah.

417. He had two guns in his car.

418. I think that convinced Douglas more than ever

419. that his brother was out to kill him.

420. The press reported that you had hired a bodyguard

421. to protect yourself against Robert Durst.

422. Is that true?

423. That is true, yes.

424. Uh... ridiculous.

425. I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

426. Right here. I want you to photograph me

427. in front of Douglas's house.

428. Now that I know that it's Douglas's house.

429. Uh.

430. This is it.

431. How strange is this?

432. I mean, I think he's not going to be satisfied unless

433. somebody comes and tells him to move.

434. I'm finished, fellas.

435. When did you first meet Robert Durst?

436. Heh. I think I met him in 1988.

437. At the time, was he married?

438. Heh. That's a very tricky question, as you know.

439. But let's say he was.

440. In the fall of 2000, had you heard reports that

441. the Westchester District Attorney was investigating

442. the disappearance of Mr. Durst's first wife?

443. Yes.

444. We know that Bobby found out that Kathie's case

445. was going to be reopened October 31 of 2000.

446. From there, he went into a defensive mode.

447. The next day, he made a purchase for a, a jewelry purchase,

448. which I believe is the engagement ring for Debrah.

449. So, now, you know,

450. he has the husband-wife privilege.

451. And that's exactly when he signed over

452. all the power of attorney.

453. A lot of people believe

454. that Debbie knows Bob's secrets,

455. whatever they may be.

456. Did you discuss the reopening of the investigation

457. with Mr. Durst, before you were married?

458. Yes.

459. What did he tell you about that?

460. Charatan's attorney: Um, I'm going to object to anything that goes

461. to the spousal privilege in terms of communications.

462. You want to ask her about facts that she knows,

463. the witness can answer that. But...

464. My question specifically framed

465. going to before they were married.

466. OK.

467. I guess that what he told me was that he was scared.

468. Scared of what?

469. Of Jeanine Pirro opening up the investigation.

470. Concerned.

471. I spoke with his wife Debrah Charatan.

472. She called her lawyer almost immediately.

473. Uh, she was somewhat, um, polite.

474. But I think she wanted to learn more from us

475. than she was willing to tell us.

476. Lovely woman. Elegant. Smart.

477. Couldn't remember where Robert Durst was around Christmastime,

478. even though they were newlyweds.

479. Did you learn around Christmas of 2000

480. that Susan Berman had been killed?

481. Yes. How did you learn that?

482. I was driving in a taxicab,

483. on my way home to the city, to the apartment,

484. and I heard it on the radio.

485. At that time, was Mr. Durst

486. in residence at your house?

487. I don't think so.

488. I've never been able to put Bobby in Los Angeles

489. at the time of the murder.

490. I could put him in California.

491. We spoke to people out in California,

492. and at least two people told us that Susan had said

493. Bob was going to come and visit some time around the holidays,

494. and she was, she was looking forward to it.

495. In fact, we found out that Bob went out to Northern California

496. sometime close to Susan's murder.

497. Now, what was in Trinidad, California?

498. Oh, it was very rural, very pretty.

499. I had lived there off and on.

500. The police, I think, made a big deal out of the idea

501. that you had gone to California around the time

502. that Susan Berman was murdered.

503. I, I got there a long time before December 23.

504. A long time before Christmas.

505. I picked Bob up on December 19 in 2000

506. And took him down to Harper Ford, pick up his car keys,

507. and took him back to the airport,

508. where his car was, apparently.

509. The parking facility at the Arcada Airport,

510. they keep logs, a daily log

511. of the vehicles that are kept in the lot.

512. We did determine that Bobby had

513. got his vehicle out of the long-term parking lot

514. on the 19th of December.

515. Bob had at least one calling card

516. that we found in his records.

517. These two calls were made the next day, on the 20th,

518. from a payphone in the town of Garberville,

519. which is about 80, 90 miles south of Trinidad.

520. It makes sense that he's moving south.

521. He's heading down.

522. This is a man who would check his voice messages

523. several times a day.

524. And then we found that,

525. during the 3, 4 days prior to and after Susan's murder,

526. there's no activity at all on his phone.

527. The phone company says, like,

528. the phone is turned off during that time.

529. He's kind of off the map for 3 days,

530. until he shows up at the counter in San Francisco

531. to purchase a ticket.

532. He was on Flight 18 that left San Francisco

533. at 10:00 in the evening.

534. Her body was found the following afternoon.

535. According to the coroner's report and the rigor mortis,

536. she'd probably been laying there close to 24 hours.

537. That's ample time to drive

538. L.A. to San Francisco, catch a flight.

539. The timing on all of this gets very, very tight,

540. because it's a long way from

541. Trinidad to Los Angeles.

542. I would have had to go from Trinidad to Los Angeles

543. I don't know when—19th, 20th, 21st or whatever—

544. and then gone back to Los Angeles to Trinidad,

545. and then gone to San Francisco and flown to New York.

546. And they just conclude...

547. That's not much time to do all that.

548. Mm-hmm.

549. And the L.A. Police have been

550. investigating for a while now,

551. and they're unable to put him in Los Angeles.

552. But they were able to put you in California.

553. California is a big state.

554. The night that I found out, I went to Susan's house.

555. There was just a pool of blood there,

556. and Susan's hair in the blood.

557. And, you know, it was, um, very disturbing, of course.

558. And then the little, the little paw prints

559. of the little doggies, you know, through, through that.

560. And it was, you know, it was horrible.

561. It was, it was really a terrible thing to see,

562. and a terrible thing to see one of your friends like that.

563. A terrible thing to see.

564. Padden, Jr.: There is no justice for Susan,

565. because somebody took her life away, you know,

566. and she was, she really was

567. living valiantly to put her life together.

568. There is justice that remains for everyone who's left behind.

569. It's, it's for us— not for Susan.

570. Mm-hmm.

571. The truth. The truth will set you free.

572. The truth would help it be all over.

573. Once they had completed the crime scene investigation,

574. her body had been removed by the coroner's office.

575. Susan's possessions were released to Sareb Kaufman,

576. who was the only family that she had there that they could find.

577. The best I can ever hope for

578. in finding out what happened is that it, for some reason,

579. does turn out to be a random act of violence.

580. That somebody just thought they were

581. robbing a house that had nothing and killed her.

582. That's the best I can hope for.

583. Outside of that, it's a friend.

584. It's somebody she knew.

585. It's somebody I've spoken to.

586. First saved voice message.

587. First saved voice message.

588. Well, do you, do you want to,

589. should we come up and see what you got?

590. Or do you want to bring it with you?

591. What do you...? Yeah.

592. All right. All right. Bye.

593. I didn't want you to think, you know, I felt bad.

594. I was like... What's all this?

595. Well, these are audiotapes that were in Susan's possession.

596. So, some of them...

597. Like, probably from interviews she did.

598. Right. And then the memorial is in there.

599. So, let me see the letter.

600. And, I mean, of course I told you this, but...

601. Smerling on recording: He showed me a letter from Bob to Susan

602. that was from March before she was murdered.

603. The address written on the front

604. is exactly like the "cadaver" note,

605. down to the misspelling of "Beverly."

606. So, I'm not trying to make you feel...

607. No. Like I said, and this is kind of why...

608. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I got you. Got you.

609. You know, I'm, I, it was clear enough

610. that I might be dancing with the devil.

611. I do.

612. Is it possible for us to get

613. the inventory of what was taken out of Susan's house

614. after she was murdered?

615. Because, you know, you can ask Coulter

616. whether he saw any other letters.

617. No, I tried. I dug really deep today.

618. No chance. No chance.

619. No chance. No chance.

620. Are you opening up your safe deposit?

621. Yeah. So, I have to fill out...

622. I would like to take the next month and, you know,

623. nothing's bringing Susan back

624. and nobody's going to know that we have this document.

625. So, what about, we interview Bob?

626. We bring it up.

627. We have it on film.

628. And now we have something

629. that the LAPD's going to really want.

630. Because now we have, without all the bullshit,

631. without having to go through 800 different levels

632. of discovery and all that stuff.

633. We've got Bob reacting clean

634. to this hugely important piece of evidence.

635. Bob second interview.