The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst 1x1

1. Dispatch called me at my house.

2. It was after hours.

3. They told me that a young kid had found

4. what they thought was a torso.

5. No head.

6. No arms.

7. No legs. Just, just the torso.

8. What's this area here?

9. This is Channel View here...

10. and it was right down here...

11. in this corner,

12. was where the torso was at.

13. Right here? Right here.

14. This is probably the one time

15. I can honestly say that I've

16. actually reached down somebody's throat.

17. Because in order to get the torso out,

18. I had to take my hand down the throat

19. and put my fingers around the breastbone,

20. and then pull him up out of the water.

21. Is that with your hand? Yeah.

22. Yeah. How else am I going to get him out?

23. And then we started our

24. kind of a general survey of the rest of the area.

25. In doing so, that's when we found a bunch of

26. the black plastic trash bags that were floating in the water.

27. Well, trying to figure out what we had inside the bags,

28. we simply palpated the bags.

29. We just felt them.

30. We had what felt like arms and hands, fingers.

31. A leg, where you could feel the knee, the ankle,

32. and the actual foot itself...

33. and one of the bags containing the legs,

34. there was like small holes

35. that had gotten torn into the bag

36. where we could actually look in,

37. and I recall seeing a toe.

38. Dismemberment started with the right leg

39. and went to the left leg, to the left arm,

40. to the neck, and then to the right arm.

41. The right arm, being the last,

42. was cut but it was only sawn halfway through,

43. and then it apparently broke, either by stepping on it

44. or something, to break the bone.

45. Getting tired, running out of time—whatever it was.

46. I'd never had a dismembered headless torso to investigate.

47. You know, I've investigated my fair share of shootings,

48. homicides—a whole array of investigations—thousands!

49. But I never had one of these.

50. So, I knew it was going to be interesting.

51. I had no idea of what I was fixin' to step into.

52. If I had of, I'm, I'm not so sure

53. I would have stepped in so willingly.

54. A teenage boy fishing in the shallow waters

55. off Galveston, Texas, stumbled on

56. the gruesome remains of a murder.

57. Pretty much everything had washed up,

58. with the exception of the head.

59. That was the focus of several days of searching.

60. That's the only body part that was never recovered.

61. One of the most important things

62. that we found initially was a newspaper.

63. We were able to read an address of 2213 Avenue K.

64. And the blood that we found on the stair rail,

65. it actually started kind of a trail

66. that came right out here.

67. And it went in right out to the, to the road.

68. We found out who owned the building.

69. It was a guy by the name of Klaus Dillman.

70. Was able to ascertain that the tenant downstairs

71. was an older man named Morris Black

72. that lived in Apartment Number 1.

73. And then Apartment Number 2, he said, was rented by

74. a little old lady named Dorothy Ciner, who was a mute female.

75. We were able to roll one of the fingerprints

76. from the hand that was in the trash bag.

77. From that, we were able to identify the victim

78. as Morris Black.

79. It appeared that in the common hallway,

80. someone had wiped up blood which led into Apartment 2,

81. which helped me to gain a search warrant into Apartment 2.

82. What we observed then was a pretty pristine apartment.

83. Very neat.

84. What was unusual was on the floor of the kitchen

85. were drop cloths.

86. Once we got the drop cloths pulled up from the floor,

87. we found some real small cuts.

88. What I wound up doing was to actually

89. take and cut that entire area out.

90. That's when I found a bloodstain.

91. We were actually able to match the blood back to Morris Black,

92. so we knew that that's the location

93. where he had been dismembered.

94. When we first talked to the landlord, he said,

95. "Well, there's a lady that rents Apartment Number 2,

96. but she's never there because she travels all the time."

97. And I'm thinking to myself...

98. "Well, if she's got the money to travel all the time,

99. "and she's gone for months on end,

100. what's she doing living in this dump?"

101. Ha! In fact, it was kind of described as

102. a real ugly deaf mute woman.

103. There was very little personal items in the apartment.

104. There was nothing to suggest a woman lived there.

105. Red flags started coming up.

106. A mute female that travels a lot.

107. But a guy will be coming around every now and then.

108. Well, I'm thinking, "Well, there's no Dorothy Ciner,

109. "that's just a cover.

110. This guy is renting this place for whatever reason."

111. The next step was to go through the trash can

112. in the alley behind the house.

113. Every piece of trash was taken out,

114. photographed, labeled, catalogued.

115. It was an appointment receipt,

116. and on that contained information that gave us

117. a date and time in which some eyeglasses were to be picked up.

118. Now I'm thinking, "Who's Robert Durst?"

119. Still a bunch of question marks.

120. I take the receipt to the eye clinic.

121. Ask them if they know who Robert Durst is.

122. The lady up front said, "Yeah,

123. he was supposed to pick those glasses up on Friday."

124. I'm thinking, "Vegas wouldn't touch these odds

125. this guy's going to show up."

126. But I said, "If he shows up, here's my card.

127. Here's my pager number." And I left.

128. In the trash bags, we also found

129. a price tag from Chalmers Hardware,

130. which was two blocks away from where Morris Black lived.

131. Among the things that were bought from Chalmers

132. were a 4-inch paring knife

133. and drop cloths with the Chalmers tags on it.

134. Also bought at Chalmers was a bow saw.

135. Lo and behold, my pager goes off.

136. And I'm like... and I recognized that number.

137. But I, I haven't, in my mind I didn't connect the dots yet.

138. And then they had put in "911." I'm thinking, "Who is that?"

139. Then, bam! "That's the eye clinic."

140. I jump in my car and I'm coming up 21st Street.

141. And he pulls out of the alleyway parking lot

142. right in front of me,

143. and pulls up to the red light, and I'm right behind him.

144. Our Motor Division pulls him over,

145. and we detain him.

146. I recall pulling up to that,

147. and I walked up and glanced down through the back windshield.

148. And the first thing I saw was a bow saw.

149. Kind of got that grin.

150. Saying, "Yeah, we got him."

151. Initial impressions when I saw him being brought in

152. was like, "Really? This guy?

153. Did that? Didn't fit."

154. God, the guy looks like a librarian!

155. He doesn't look like a person

156. that would dismember a human being.

157. I explained to him he'd been

158. arrested for, you know, homicide.

159. "Your bond has been set at $250,000."

160. And he asked me, he said, "Well, what should I do?"

161. And I said, "I don't know. Do you have $250,000?"

162. And he just calmly looked at me and he goes, "Well, not on me."

163. Who the hell is this guy

164. to give you that type of an answer?

165. Which is not the type of answer you would normally hear.

166. I get a call from the desk sergeant at the jail.

167. He goes, "Cody, this Durst guy,

168. "he made a phone call to somebody named

169. "Debrah in New York.

170. "Told them he was in Galveston, Texas,

171. "under arrest for murder, and he needed $250,000.

172. And she said, "No problem, it will be there in the morning."

173. And I'm thinking, "What's going on here?"

174. Are you the wife of Robert Durst?

175. Yes.

176. When did you marry him?

177. December 2000.

178. Would that have been December 11, 2000?

179. Yes. OK.

180. When did you first hear that Mr. Durst

181. had rented an apartment in Galveston, Texas?

182. Um, I heard that he rented an apartment in Galveston, Texas

183. certainly after October 9, 2001.

184. OK. And why are you so definite about that date?

185. Because that was the day he called me,

186. after he was arrested.

187. And I never even heard of Galveston, Texas.

188. When he called you, where was he calling from?

189. Jail.

190. How long was it from the time that he was arrested

191. until he got out of jail on bail?

192. 24 hours. OK.

193. When he got out, where did he go?

194. I'm in New York. He's in Galveston.

195. He probably went to the bail bondsman's office first.

196. And then he probably went home.

197. Do I know? Was I there?

198. I wasn't there.

199. I'm back at work the next morning about 7:30.

200. I get to my office.

201. Usually on my phone there may be one or two messages.

202. I get to, I get my cup of coffee,

203. I sit down, my light's blinking.

204. 21 messages.

205. That's when the information about

206. who Robert Durst really was started coming into play.

207. We get this tip that a Bob Durst has been arrested

208. in Galveston and he's murdered his,

209. his neighbor or something.

210. And it was like, "Holy shit!

211. Can this be our Bob Durst?"

212. The fact that Morris Black had been murdered in Galveston

213. was not something that would have garnered

214. any attention at our end.

215. It was only when they made the connection to Robert Durst.

216. You find out that he belongs to one of the richest

217. families in New York City.

218. But that's not strange enough,

219. the guy's also suspected in

220. his wife's disappearance in New York.

221. Robert Durst first made headlines

222. after he reported his wife missing in 1982.

223. And to this day, the case remains unsolved.

224. The family of Kathleen Durst, from the beginning, had said

225. they believed Robert Durst was responsible.

226. He had always maintained his innocence.

227. Family sources tell News Channel 4

228. Robert Durst relocated to Galveston, Texas,

229. but they were unsure what he was doing there.

230. How many office buildings does

231. the Durst Organization currently own?

232. 9.

233. And can you tell me what those office buildings are?

234. 655 Third Avenue, 675 Third Avenue,

235. 205 East 42nd Street, 733 Avenue of the Americas,

236. 825 Avenue of the Americas, Four Times Square,

237. 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 1155 Avenue of the Americas,

238. and 114 West 47th Street.

239. Most defendants charged with murder

240. show up at their arraignment, OK?

241. Did I expect him to be there?

242. Of course I did.

243. I wanted to eyeball this guy.

244. I wanted to size him up.

245. Robert was due to be in court at 10:00 a.m.

246. And he was a no-show. He decided to run.

247. In the search for Robert Durst,

248. a lawyer is asking him to surrender.

249. Attorney Michael Kennedy made an appeal to him

250. to turn himself in.

251. Robert, if you see this or hear this, please come home.

252. You have loved ones who care about you here in New York.

253. Your family is solidly, unifiedly behind you.

254. The Trust has the wherewithal to pay for your legal defense.

255. The press reported that you had hired a bodyguard

256. to protect yourself against Robert Durst.

257. Is that true?

258. That is true, yes.

259. Objection.

260. Did you believe your life was threatened by Robert Durst?

261. At that point in time...

262. Robert's actions were bizarre,

263. and while I wasn't sure,

264. I felt that, to protect my family

265. was a reasonable action to take.

266. And when did you hire the, the bodyguard?

267. In, uh, after Robert jumped bail in Texas.

268. All the wheels started turning.

269. How do we find this guy?

270. Everything from state and local agency notifications

271. to notifications to Interpol.

272. There's no telling where this guy could have gone.

273. A private investigator told a Galveston newspaper

274. that Durst has used false names in the past.

275. He had disguised himself as a woman.

276. His alias, Dorothy Ciner, is even listed

277. on the FBI's 10 most wanted list.

278. Dorothy Ciner was somebody he went to

279. Scarsdale High School with.

280. We found a bank account that he had set up as Emilio Vignoni.

281. He had rented a car from a place in Mobile, Alabama,

282. saying he was Morris Black.

283. And we know there were probably more.

284. He's not crazy. He's diabolical.

285. When Bob didn't show up at his hearing

286. and we realize he's on the run,

287. I was as curious as anyone else about where he was.

288. And so, I was calling places where he had lived.

289. "When Robert A. Durst returned to

290. "South Salem in Westchester County,

291. "a neighbor noticed him seemingly lost in thought

292. "on a dock at Lake Truesdale,

293. "behind the tree-shrouded stone cottage

294. he once shared with his wife Kathleen."

295. "It was his birthday and their wedding anniversary,

296. "though she had vanished 19 years earlier.

297. "The State Police and the Westchester District Attorney

298. "had been seeking him for a year

299. "to go over his account of his last night with his wife—

300. "the night she vanished.

301. "Mr. Durst's reverie on the dock

302. "suddenly ended when a neighbor

303. strolled down to the lakefront."

304. That neighbor, of course, was the woman

305. that moved into the house that Bob had lived in,

306. and that Kathie had disappeared from.

307. It was always piecing together these shreds of information.

308. It was hazy, but it began to tell a story

309. about this guy who, of course, was an enigma.

310. 58-year-old Robert Durst

311. was arrested here at Wegmans Grocery Store

312. in Hanover Township after

313. allegedly trying to steal a hoagie.

314. I think we were kind of in the same boat as

315. everybody else that had any knowledge

316. of this case whatsoever.

317. How in the hell could he have been that stupid?

318. He just kind of got cold look.

319. All the color ran out of his face, and he just stared at me,

320. and he said, "I'm not saying another word

321. until I speak to an attorney."

322. Police searched his rental car outside...

323. And found two loaded guns,

324. some marijuana,

325. $38,000 in cash, and an I.D. for one "Morris Black."

326. Why would a guy with $520 in his pocket

327. and $37,000 in the trunk

328. walk into a Wegmans and steal a sandwich?

329. The guy is crying out to be arrested, isn't he?

330. On the other hand, he's also a guy that sort of

331. walks through life and thinks he can do whatever he wants to do.

332. And most of the time, he could.

333. In shackles and under heavy guard,

334. 58-year-old Robert Durst is led into the courtroom.

335. Mr. Durst, are you going to fight extradition?

336. He has no comment at this time.

337. Are you competent to stand trial?

338. He has no comment.

339. Where is your wife?

340. How long was he in jail in Pennsylvania?

341. About two months.

342. Did you speak to him while he was in jail?

343. Sure.

344. Did you call him?

345. It doesn't work that way.

346. OK. He called you from jail in Pennsylvania?

347. Yes. OK.

348. During that time, did he call you regularly?

349. Yes.

350. And in any of those conversations,

351. did he indicate what his plans were in the future?

352. Since I'm sure that you know that

353. those conversations were taped, and they probably are public,

354. you could read for yourself,

355. because I don't really remember what conversations we had.

356. It's very cold in this prison.

357. Yeah, cold out.

358. Well, it's cold out, but I feel like

359. it's cold in this prison.

360. I'm sitting here all covered with a sweatshirt.

361. Some guys were quote unquote "in paper."

362. I know that. You told me.

363. Honey, now when you're now sitting in your room,

364. do you wear that thing or not?

365. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't.

366. It's very warm. It is comfy.

367. I never wore a jumpsuit until I got here.

368. It's a very comfy thing.

369. It's easy to take on and off.

370. Right now, I'm out here in the thing

371. and I have it on o-o-over my l-l-long johns.

372. And a sweatshirt. And it's still cold.

373. The time now is approximately 10:34 a.m.

374. We're on record.

375. I'm going to swear you in, sir, if you raise

376. your right hand, please.

377. Do you solemnly swear or affirm

378. the testimony you are about to give to be the truth,

379. the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

380. Yes, ma'am.

381. Will you state your full name for the record, please?

382. Robert Durst.

383. Am I correct that from the 1970s until 1994,

384. you worked in the Durst Family business?

385. Sort of, yes.

386. What were your positions there?

387. My titles? Yes.

388. I had various important-sounding titles,

389. but I didn't really go there very much.

390. Can you tell me under what circumstances

391. Robert left the Durst Organization in the mid Nineties?

392. At some point, Robert stopped showing up for,

393. stopped showing up to the office.

394. And did you ever make any inquiries

395. why he stopped showing up at the office?

396. I, I did, yes.

397. And what did you find out?

398. At that time, he would not talk to me.

399. Did you quit the family business in 1994

400. after Douglas Durst was picked to run the family businesses?

401. Well, he was pretty much picked in 1989-90, I remember.

402. Who picked him?

403. Uh, the senior generation—

404. Seymour Durst, David Durst, Roy Durst.

405. And Seymour Durst was your father?

406. Yes.

407. In fact, Mr. Durst,

408. you've threatened to kill your brother, haven't you?

409. No, sir.

410. OK.

411. He screwed you out of everything.

412. Your birthright.

413. The entire Durst Organization.

414. And you forgot?

415. Right. He took over the family business.

416. No doubt about it.

417. OK. He took it from you.

418. He could have done it with you.

419. There were a lot of choices he could have done, but no.

420. He took it from you and his plan

421. was to destroy you and embarrass you.

422. And he did it.

423. "The level of enmity is so great that Douglas Durst

424. "even went so far as to hire a bodyguard

425. to protect himself from Robert Durst."

426. Close quote. Do you remember that allegation?

427. I remember that that occurred.

428. Do you know why Douglas Durst hired a bodyguard?

429. Because he's a pussy.

430. Did he hire the bodyguard because he was scared of you?

431. I have knowledge that he'd hired a bodyguard.

432. Why he would be scared of me, I have no idea.

433. New York real estate heir Robert Durst

434. will be turned over to Texas authorities this week.

435. He faces charges in the dismemberment murder

436. of a 71-year-old neighbor.

437. Yesterday in Pennsylvania, the 58-year-old

438. waived his right to contest his extradition to Texas.

439. It's going to be a media circus there.

440. I know it is.

441. I'm trying not to think about it,

442. and I'm trying not to, to plan,

443. what kind of look I should have on my face.

444. I know.Am I supposed to be smiling?

445. Or am I supposed to be grim?

446. If you're thinking of expression,

447. I would just have like as close to no expression

448. as you can possibly have...

449. Yeah. That's what I keep—

450. The defendant in this case was one who's wanted for

451. a serious crime—murder— in the state of Texas.

452. There was a nationwide manhunt for this individual,

453. and it's thanks to the Pennsylvania authorities

454. that he was picked up, arrested, and kept here.

455. And so we thank the D.A. Morganelli for this.

456. And with respect to the New York case

457. and in response to your question, let me just say that

458. the disappearance of Kathleen Durst 20 years ago is a case

459. that we are actively investigating.

460. We continue to seek the public's cooperation.

461. And as time goes on, we're finding that

462. more and more people are cooperating with us.

463. And we will get to the bottom of what happened to Kathleen Durst,

464. one way or the other.

465. Now Jeanine Pirro can go to the grand jury

466. and say, "This person is going to be

467. tried for murder in Galveston."

468. That's going to make it much more likely

469. that they're going to want to indict me for Kathie.

470. Bob, she hasn't arrested you

471. because she doesn't have anything.

472. You're going to be all right. I promise.

473. OK. All right.

474. You got to chin up. You'll be OK.

475. Thank you. I love you, honey.

476. I love you.

477. Bye. Bye.

478. Have your investigators been able to talk to Robert Durst?

479. No, they have not.

480. He's represented by an attorney.

481. As D.A. Morganelli has said,

482. it's the attorneys that we speak to.

483. Do you have any comment on

484. what happened today with your client?

485. Well, it's very straightforward.

486. Mr. Durst is anxious to get to Texas

487. to defend himself on the charges pending there.

488. He has a viable defense, and he wants to raise it.

489. Therefore, he chose to voluntarily waive extradition

490. and not seek to fight extradition.

491. And we expect that he'll be moved forthwith to Texas

492. where, with two of my colleagues down there,

493. we'll begin further to prepare his defense.

494. And that defense would be an insanity defense?

495. No. I'm not going to comment on the defense.

496. Did you at any time tell Mr. Durst

497. that you'd divorce him if he retained Michael Kennedy?

498. Yes.

499. Why did you say that to him?

500. Because I didn't trust Michael Kennedy.

501. I didn't like Michael Kennedy.

502. I'm quoting again from the tapes.

503. Do you recall your wife threatening

504. "I won't stand by you anymore," close quote,

505. if Michael Kennedy wasn't fired as your lawyer?

506. Yes. Michael Kennedy was the one

507. who was hired by Douglas to represent me.

508. And I had no intention of hiring Michael Kennedy anyway.

509. Robert Durst returned to Texas tonight.

510. The heir to a Manhattan skyscraper fortune

511. is charged with murdering and dismembering

512. his Galveston neighbor.

513. Well, I'm Dick DeGuerin.

514. I've been practicing law since 1965.

515. Almost all of that time in criminal law.

516. Either as a prosecutor, where I started,

517. or as a criminal defense lawyer once I saw the light.

518. And then she says, "I will fight for what I want

519. and I will fight you hard," close quote.

520. Well, that's Debbie.

521. Do you remember that conversation?

522. I don't remember that one specifically,

523. but the big argument then was that I wanted to hire

524. Dick DeGuerin to represent me,

525. and she wanted me to hire Mike Ramsey.

526. Durst couldn't decide between Ramsey and me,

527. so, he hired both of us.

528. "All Good Things," a new feature film,

529. premiered at the SVA Cinema in Chelsea.

530. The film was inspired by one of

531. the most notorious missing persons cases

532. in New York City history.

533. Andrew, what brought you to this film?

534. Well, I'm always interested in, interested in

535. these sort of monster stories.

536. You know, you find out that somebody is

537. described as a maniac or a crazy person

538. or a, a serial killer,

539. and I always think that those people

540. started out somewhere.

541. You know, they started out as people,

542. and they had hopes and dreams.

543. He was an unusual person. So, he did unusual things.

544. Stranger than fiction, in a lot of ways.

545. I remember this case because

546. it's based on one of the great murder mysteries.

547. There was a man named Robert Durst

548. who came from a very wealthy real estate family.

549. He married a beautiful woman named Kathie.

550. Played by you, and then in 1982,

551. khht, she was gone.

552. Nobody has ever found the body.

553. He was never charged with the murder.

554. He's still alive.

555. I remember saying to my partner,

556. "I would like to make a movie

557. "that Robert Durst himself could

558. "sit and watch, and have

559. an emotional reaction to."

560. A call comes through. And I pick it up.

561. And a sort of smaller voice on the line says, "Hello.

562. I-I-Is this Eamonn Bowles?"

563. So I said, "Yes."

564. He goes, "Oh, this is Bob Durst."

565. My blood froze.

566. I went like, "Um, oh, hello, excuse me. Who is this?

567. I thought this was someone else. Who's calling?"

568. And he's like, "This is Bob Durst.

569. I'm looking for Andrew Jarecki." And I'm like, "Oh!"

570. Hello?

571. Hi. Mr. Durst?

572. Hi, Mr. Jarecki. How are you?

573. I'm good. How are you?

574. Good. I just saw the movie.

575. So, I h-h-have an idea.

576. I've no idea if it makes any sense.

577. But, but you're the one to talk to about it.

578. Sure. Would it make sense

579. for as in some capacity there to be an interview with me

580. related to what's in the movie?

581. Yeah, I think that's a fascinating idea.

582. I'll be in touch soon. I'm glad that we had a chance to talk.

583. All righty. Bye-bye.

584. Nice to talk to you.

585. Mr. Jarecki.

586. How are you? Good. How are you?

587. Good. I think you should feel free

588. to call me "Andrew," by the way.

589. Andrew, how are you?

590. I have over the years been approached

591. by all the various interview shows.

592. And I'm not interested in doing a "True Crime" kind of stuff.

593. Right.

594. You know more about Robert Durst

595. than any of those people do.

596. I guess the question is, you know,

597. has anybody really done a piece on you

598. where they didn't walk into it with a very strong assumption?

599. One possibility is to have me interview you

600. after having made this film.

601. I would tend to cooperate with you

602. with whatever it was you're going to do.

603. You, you've got all my phone numbers.

604. I look forward to hearing from you.

605. Sounds good. Talk to you soon.

606. Bye-bye.

607. As a criminal defense lawyer,

608. you don't always get the truth.

609. I'm not naive enough to think that you do.

610. But you try to make a judgment

611. of whether you're getting the truth.

612. When you only have

613. a murderer's word for what happened,

614. why believe anything that comes out of the man's mouth?

615. What I need to say to you

616. is that I believe Bob,

617. and I believed him from the very beginning.

618. I don't think Bob Durst is the kind of man

619. that kills for the thrill of the kill.

620. I don't think he takes any particular pleasure in killing.

621. But if you back him in a corner,

622. if you threaten his freedom, he'll kill ya.