Norm Macdonald Live 3x10

1. - Well, another day, another,

2. I call it a talk show.

3. That's really what this is.

4. - Oh, this, yeah.

5. - We have everything that a talk show has we have.

6. We have guests.

7. We have opening remarks.

8. - Yes.

9. - We have cameras.

10. - Yeah, we definitely have all these cameras.

11. - We have this desk.

12. - It's great.

13. - We have that lady that shows us

14. five minutes to go, one minute to go.

15. Everything that a real, regular,

16. network television talk show has, we also have.

17. - Yeah, I would agree,

18. I just it's a little more bare bones than that.

19. It's not your.

20. - What do they have that we don't?

21. - Um, for instance, cooking segments.

22. We've never had a chef come on

23. and show us how to - Well, but we don't have.

24. - I'm just saying.

25. - You want a cooking segment?

26. - Of course I want a cooking segment.

27. Who doesn't like a good cooking segment?

28. - I'll get us a cooking segment.

29. Did I tell you I saw old Conan the other day?

30. - Oh, what happened?

31. - He gets this chef out there with his big hat, you know?

32. - Yeah.

33. - And the guy starts making some kind,

34. and they have a bottle of wine,

35. you know how they put it in to?

36. - Oh god, what happened?

37. - Conan gets so upset he starts

38. chugging the wine himself.

39. - Can you imagine?

40. - He's kidding, but okay.

41. I'm going to get us right now,

42. through the power of prayer.

43. - Why don't we just have Kellison book a chef?

44. - Let's try it this way.

45. - Okay.

46. - And Kellison will be the backup

47. - Alright.

48. - to the Lord.

49. - I like that.

50. - Okay.

51. Oh, Lord, of the universe.

52. Master of all things, mover upon the deep.

53. Master of those things seen and unseen.

54. - Norm, what are you doing?

55. - I want to have a cooking demo!

56. - I'm frightened.

57. - And I have nothing to work with

58. including backup talent.

59. You know who I'm talking about.

60. When the children of Israel wandered

61. hungry in the wilderness,

62. what did you give them?

63. You gave them manna from heaven.

64. It rained down upon them.

65. Why should we be any less in your sight

66. than those wandering Israelites?

67. Show us now how to make

68. the delicious dish manna!

69. Ohh!

70. - Hey.

71. - It's manna.

72. Mmmm, that's good.

73. You know what it tastes like?

74. It's almost a combination of milk

75. and honey.

76. - Hold on a minute.

77. What just happened?

78. Did you just have manna from the Bible

79. - Right.

80. - rain down on the podcast studio?

81. - Yes.

82. I guess I did.

83. - This is crazy.

84. You're not even Jewish.

85. I can do that too.

86. - Well, go ahead.

87. Do your best.

88. There's something very hot in the chips.

89. Golly, man, what is that?

90. - You said milk and honey?

91. - I know, you didn't eat any of them, right?

92. They're burning hot.

93. - Oh, that is hot!

94. They're spicy.

95. I'm an Israelite.

96. I can do better than that.

97. - Really?

98. You think you could make manna rain from heaven?

99. - I'm a chosen one.

100. - Do your best, man.

101. - Oh, great Yahweh!

102. You have always been there for my forefathers

103. in their time of need.

104. I ask for you to bless me with your delicacies

105. of the heavens for I am hungry.

106. 'Cause I skipped breakfast this morning.

107. Oh, please Yahweh, show me your strength

108. and your deliciousness!

109. - Oh!

110. Ooh, these are stones, rocks.

111. - I wouldn't eat that.

112. I think this is a turd.

113. Oh god.

114. Oh, yeah, that's definitely poop.

115. Ugh.

116. - Ugh.

117. - Ugh.

118. - Oh, well.

119. - After a while though,

120. you kinda get used to it. - Some guys got it

121. and some guys don't.

122. - What did he eat?

123. - But listen, the Lord moves in mysterious ways,

124. and today he has blessed us with all this manna.

125. Adam, you know who else he's blessed us with?

126. - Who?

127. - Caitlyn Jenner.

128. - Oooh!

129. - In a moment.

130. Tonight our guest for the full hour Caitlyn Jenner.

131. In 1976 dubbed the greatest athlete in the world

132. after prevailing in Montreal.

133. And now she's here with us looking startlingly young.

134. - Thank you, Norm.

135. That's a great way to start it off.

136. Okay, flattery will get you a long way.

137. Yes, actually you mentioned that did happen a long time ago.

138. I have the ultimate double that I don't want anybody

139. to hopefully ever have to go through.

140. I won the Olympic decathlon in 1976,

141. got the title of world's greatest athlete.

142. Back that up 40 years later,

143. Glamour's woman of the year.

144. - That's incredible.

145. - That's a double.

146. - That is a double.

147. - Yeah, that's about as good a double as you can get.

148. Yeah, finally able to live my life.

149. - I'm still working on a single.

150. - I understand.

151. - What stunned me in the book,

152. the book's incredible.

153. The Secrets of My Life.

154. - I told them all.

155. I told stuff I never thought I would ever say.

156. Yeah, I mean, it was a cleansing process.

157. Doing a book is very therapeutic,

158. I've done other ones.

159. But you really have to sit down.

160. It was two years in the making,

161. with almost 8,000 pages

162. of memoirs - Wow.

163. - and talking and two years.

164. I worked with Buzz Bissinger. - 8,000 pages?

165. - Yeah, and Buzz Bissinger.

166. - Buzz Bissinger who's a cartoon character.

167. - He should be.

168. Yes, he should be a cartoon,

169. somewhere he is a cartoon character, I guarantee it.

170. Probably in his own mind.

171. But he's kinda crazy and off the wall,

172. and we just got along so well together.

173. We had the same kinda sick sense of humor.

174. You know, I told him the book's gotta be,

175. I gotta tell the whole story.

176. 'Cause this is my one opportunity to put it down in writing,

177. my whole story.

178. But also, it's gotta be funny.

179. I love humor. - There's a great

180. sense of humor in this book.

181. And I want to read right from the beginning,

182. the author's note:

183. "Transgender guidelines suggest that I no longer

184. "be referred to as Bruce under any circumstances.

185. "But here are my guidelines:

186. "I will refer to the name Bruce when I think it appropriate

187. "and the name Caitlyn when I think it appropriate."

188. So I hope that you give us the same.

189. - No, it's very true.

190. So much in our community,

191. I mean they're all up on pronouns

192. and getting this and this and that.

193. You know I was Bruce for a long time.

194. - Yes, Bruce Jenner won the Olympics.

195. - Yeah, and it was around for 65 years.

196. Now was that me?

197. No.

198. There was a lot more to me that nobody knew.

199. What I have learned over the last couple a years is

200. every story is different.

201. Honestly, the most fun I have is going out to dinner

202. with like four or five trans girls or guys

203. or whatever, - Me too.

204. - and sit around and swap stories.

205. And every one. - The friend is worst.

206. - Yeah, every one is like,

207. they're like the most interesting people out there!

208. - They sure are, yeah yeah.

209. - Yeah, I mean what they've been through with society,

210. with family, with their own struggles,

211. and everything they've been through,

212. to finally get to the point

213. where gender doesn't become an issue.

214. - Yeah.

215. - I remember right after I came out I got a lot a letters.

216. I get a letter from, actually a trans girl here in L.A.,

217. transitioned 15 years ago.

218. She said that it was probably five or six years

219. after she transitioned she remembers going to bed one night,

220. putting her head in the pillow,

221. and she went, oh my god.

222. She goes, not once all day

223. did I think about gender and my identity.

224. And she goes that was like a real

225. eye-opening experience.

226. You wanna get to that point where that does

227. not become an issue in your life.

228. - You have not reached that point yet?

229. - No, I have not reached it.

230. Mostly because I work so closely in this community

231. to try to bring some understanding,

232. to try to bring this issue forward.

233. So I'm working within that,

234. so I kinda deal with it a lot on a daily basis.

235. But for me personally,

236. no, it's so simple.

237. You would think my life would be so much more complicated,

238. no, just the opposite.

239. It's so simple.

240. I get up in the morning and be myself.

241. No secrets, no nothing, go out, get dressed.

242. - It's very hard to have a double life.

243. - Two suitcases,

244. wardrobe. - Hard enough to have

245. one life.

246. - Yes, you have wardrobe, hiding wardrobe.

247. - Yeah, you talk about it in the book,

248. that you had the wigs.

249. You have to pack for a man and a woman.

250. - Yeah, I had to do everything.

251. - And you talk about going through

252. metal detectors wearing a bra and being beeped.

253. - Nooo!

254. Yes, now I can actually go up on stage and give a speech

255. and wear a bra and panties and get away with it.

256. And tell everybody in the audience, you know.

257. - See?

258. - Somewhere.

259. - I did so many things, as you read in the book.

260. - I loved the book.

261. I was glad it started with the,

262. well it goes back and forth,

263. but it started with the Olympics.

264. - Right.

265. - 'Cause I was at those Olympics.

266. I remember those Olympics

267. because it was. - You're that old?

268. - Yeah, I'm old.

269. - Wow.

270. - It had Juantorema

271. - Alberto Juantorena, yes.

272. He was in the 400 and 800.

273. - And Comaneci, maybe?

274. - Yeah, Nadia.

275. That was her Olympics.

276. - So it was a big big year.

277. - It was a big deal.

278. - And then you were the American

279. doing that final lap on the 1500 to

280. seal what already was.

281. But how does someone get into the decathlon?

282. I've always wondered.

283. - Well, a lot a guys who were specialist say

284. you tried every event and failed

285. so you pick up the decathlon,

286. but I didn't look at it that way.

287. No, I've always just played sports.

288. I played football, then played basketball,

289. and then ran track,

290. and then all summer long competitively water skied.

291. I was just always competing,

292. always having fun doing it.

293. When I was in high school,

294. I got like MVP and all-city in football

295. and all the same in basketball.

296. I won the state championships in Connecticut

297. in the pole vault and in the high jump in two events.

298. I just played sports.

299. When I went to college,

300. I went to a very small school in Iowa,

301. the coach there, a guy named L.D. Weldon,

302. always liked multi-eventers

303. in track and field. - Oh, you.

304. I thought he was a football coach.

305. - I did go to play football.

306. That's why I initially went there,

307. but the track coach obviously knew what I had done.

308. He became like my second dad.

309. He had probably, besides my father, my parents,

310. probably the biggest impact on my life as a person,

311. and certainly athletically.

312. He was great human being.

313. They talk about it,

314. when you're in high school

315. and you run five events in one meet.

316. - Five events?

317. - Just in one meet, yeah.

318. Just for high school stuff.

319. Can you triple jump?

320. And I go, yeah, I guess so.

321. Go over and try it. - Is that a hop,

322. skip and jump?

323. That's what we used to call it.

324. Is that the same thing?

325. - Yeah, hop, skip and jump.

326. - Is that the same thing?

327. - Yes, that's it, skip and jump.

328. - Yeah, it's an odd one.

329. - It's a weird one, yeah.

330. - But you said in the book pole vault was your natural?

331. - I started off as a pole vaulter, yes.

332. Looks like the most fun. - And that seems

333. terrifying to me.

334. - Looks like the most fun.

335. - You have to hit.

336. Like do you ever miss that thing?

337. That indenture in the earth.

338. - No, but I missed my steps getting in there,

339. 'cause your steps gotta be in the right place.

340. Yeah, but I was able to hit it in the box

341. pretty much all the time.

342. - Now if you'd miss your steps you just stop,

343. you just abort. - Yeah, run through.

344. Because you have to land with your

345. foot. - You ever pole vault?

346. This is Adam Eget, by the way.

347. - I noticed he was at the end of the table smiling.

348. Should we bring him into the conversation,

349. what do you think?

350. - Adam, have you met Caitlyn?

351. - I just did, yeah.

352. - You don't need anymore.

353. - First of all, your dad comes across

354. as astonishing in this book.

355. He was at D-Day.

356. - My dad was a big impact on my life.

357. He was from that great generation.

358. He was a World War II veteran.

359. A 5th Ranger Battalion, landed on Omaha Beach.

360. - Yeah, tough guy.

361. - If you saw Saving Private Ryan,

362. that was my dad on the beach in Normandy.

363. - So he goes from the beach of Normandy

364. to a stunning part of the book where he shows you a picture

365. of the Holocaust.

366. - Holocaust.

367. They were the first guys into Buchenwald

368. concentration camp. - Wow.

369. - And here he was like 21 years old, 22,

370. walking in and they literally had carts,

371. railroad trains open.

372. Carts just piled 20 high

373. of dead bodies. - Oh my god.

374. - And people walking around in a daze

375. because they knew the Americans were coming.

376. So the day before, all the Germans got out,

377. took their uniforms off

378. and tried to blend in to society.

379. So they walked in and there was no guards,

380. there was no nobody there.

381. They just opened the door, came in and saw.

382. At that age that's tough stuff to go through.

383. But he never really talked about it that much,

384. about the war. - He never seemed to.

385. - He said when the war was over with

386. it was done.

387. He had to get on with life.

388. But it was tough.

389. It was always, he was morally a good person, this and that.

390. He loved the athletic side

391. and what I was doing and everything.

392. The one regret I do have is I wonder how he would've

393. dealt with what I've been through all my life,

394. and what eventually I decided to do.

395. He'll never know.

396. That's why in the front of the book

397. I dedicate it to my father,

398. - And your brother.

399. - and my brother who

400. - Burt.

401. - Burt, was three months after the games in 1976,

402. I just won the games,

403. three months later he was killed in a car accident.

404. So the two closest ones - Driving your car.

405. - Yeah, actually it was a car that a guy let me borrow

406. and he was going down to get gas in it.

407. Yeah, so they were the two close people in my family

408. that never got to hear my story.

409. So I thought I would dedicate it to them.

410. - Your father comes across as a

411. big risk taker in life,

412. and your brother, obviously, in the car that day.

413. But you also.

414. - My mom, 91 and still around.

415. I just talked to her before I came here.

416. - Your mother is so awesome on your show.

417. - Yeah, oh she's great.

418. - Oh, my god.

419. - Yeah, she's great.

420. - And she was

421. incredibly accepting. - And she was

422. the last one that I told.

423. - Really?

424. - Yeah, she was the last.

425. She was the hardest one to tell.

426. I had come out pretty much, well all my family.

427. Actually it started, all these rumors, back in the 80s.

428. - Uh huh.

429. - Yeah, the 80s were my biggest struggling

430. period of my life.

431. I thought after Linda and I separated in '84,

432. the next six years till almost into '91.

433. Yeah, I was in therapy.

434. I was on hormone treatment.

435. Actually I had all the electrolysis done

436. and had my beard removed.

437. That's probably why people thought it was.

438. I didn't do too much cosmetic surgery or anything,

439. but it was on hormones and getting rid of the beard.

440. Then I got to the end of that and I said,

441. I'm doin' this before I'm 40.

442. - Your transition?

443. - I'm gonna do this before I'm 40,

444. which would be 1990.

445. - Now just to go back a little bit,

446. you know there's something different about you

447. when you were a little child.

448. - Mmhmm.

449. - 10 years old, you say in the book,

450. - Oh, yeah, yeah, I was just very young.

451. - that you were attracted to the bedroom closet

452. of your mother and the clothes that hang there.

453. - Yes.

454. - And you would sneak in.

455. Now, obviously,

456. there's no one you can look to,

457. there's no one in society.

458. - There's not even a name for it.

459. We're talking 50s and 60s.

460. There's not even a name for it.

461. The only thing you had was Christine Jorgensen.

462. Well I had seen that story and I was

463. really fascinated by it.

464. Honestly you kept your mouth shut.

465. And then I found sports.

466. - Which you call the grand diversion.

467. - It's a grand diversion.

468. That's where I can go.

469. I was also dyslexic, so I wasn't a great student.

470. The words coming up off the piece

471. of paper were just difficult for me.

472. You lack confidence in yourself intellectually.

473. I found sports.

474. Then all of a sudden there I was on a football field

475. where I could prove my manhood,

476. and also take a guy who was a good student, good reader,

477. and clean his clock.

478. And it felt good.

479. It felt good.

480. And I said this is fun.

481. I like this.

482. Yeah, and then I got into track and then started doing that.

483. Then I just got obsessed with sports,

484. never knowing how far I would go with it.

485. But I have to say,

486. after all of that,

487. and the going on and eventually winning the Games,

488. I look back on it,

489. at the time you don't really think about it.

490. But I look back on it and I think to myself that

491. I would never have done that if I hadn't been dyslexic,

492. wasn't suffering from identity disorders,

493. because I outtrained and outworked the next guy.

494. I was not the best athlete in the field.

495. - And you say you weren't competitive.

496. - No, I wasn't.

497. - But the grand diversion.

498. - The diversion, but I was so competitive eventually

499. for the decathlon the last six years of my career,

500. where I trained six to eight hours a day,

501. I outworked them, I outtrained them.

502. - For 365 days a year, right?

503. - Yeah, I trained full-time

504. all year round. - That's wild.

505. - 'Cause you had lost in '72?

506. - Well, I didn't lose.

507. I never should've made it on the team in 1972.

508. It's three people make it, one tournament.

509. I wasn't even ranked in the top 10.

510. I was in 11th place after the first day,

511. my first five events.

512. Second day, I start off with the hurdles, I'm in 11th.

513. I go to the discus with the best throw of my life

514. and move to 10th.

515. So I'm in 10th place with three to go

516. and the top three move on.

517. Go to the pole vault, 10th to seventh.

518. Javelin, seventh to fifth.

519. I'm in fifth place, my last running event

520. is the 1500 meters and it's my best running event.

521. I had to beat the guy who was in third place

522. by 18 seconds in the race.

523. And ran an eight second personal best time,

524. and beat him by 21 seconds

525. and snuck into third. - Oh wow!

526. - Wow!

527. Oh, you got a bronze medal?

528. - No, that was for the trials.

529. That was just to make it on the team.

530. - Oh, we're in the trials now.

531. - Just to make it on the team.

532. 'Cause I never thought I would ever go to an Olympics.

533. I mean, that was everybody else.

534. - But what an astonishing day that was.

535. - That was the biggest athletic thrill of my life.

536. - You beat someone by 21 seconds?

537. - Yeah, I ran 4:16.

538. - Wow!

539. - I had run 4:24 before I ran 4:16.

540. - Seconds are valuable things in.

541. - Yeah, I know.

542. I was pretty motivated.

543. - I guess, my god. - But that was the

544. first time I had to reach down in my soul,

545. and you know what?

546. I found something there.

547. That if I have to do something I can do it athletically

548. no matter bad it hurts, no matter what you have to do.

549. That one race changed everything.

550. And then I went to the Games in '72.

551. - Munich?

552. - Munich, got 10th place.

553. Very happy, I wanted to get in the top 10.

554. I got 10th place.

555. - How old are you at this point?

556. - 22.

557. - What is the average age for a decathlete?

558. - Mostly latter 20s reach their prime.

559. - So you were sitting pretty good

560. if you were

561. 22 in 10th place. - No, I was very happy.

562. I had only grown in the decathlon

563. for a little over two years,

564. and here I was at the Olympics.

565. I was like, shocked.

566. - That's only two years more than me.

567. - That's true.

568. Yes.

569. - Oh, we have to go.

570. Back in a moment with Caitlyn Jenner.

571. Back with Caitlyn Jenner for the entire hour.

572. The whole commercial break was you asking questions.

573. - I know.

574. And then soon as we come on camera you do all the work.

575. - He's like Ralph Kramden.

576. - Is he to help out with just your commercial breaks?

577. You keep his mouth shut after that?

578. - We really don't know why he's here.

579. - We don't know?

580. You haven't found a position for him yet?

581. - We found a position for him.

582. - I have plenty of positions.

583. - Listen, why don't you talk about what you were

584. talking about, 'cause that's sort of interesting?

585. - Well, I was just saying that my Uncle Brad,

586. you saved my Uncle Brad's life virtually.

587. I know it was really cool. - Yeah, he was a pastor,

588. a great pastor.

589. We knew him when he was at Calvary in Westlake.

590. All of a sudden he was gone.

591. We didn't know what the circumstances were.

592. Years go by and Kris brought me in the office one day

593. and said you gotta find Pastor Brad.

594. I found on him, he's working at Starbucks.

595. I said no way.

596. He was like a rockstar before that.

597. So anyway, I went into Starbucks.

598. Finally found him.

599. - Why was your preacher working at a Starbucks?

600. - He does make a mean latte.

601. - He had some issues with the church,

602. and the church let him go.

603. - Ohh.

604. - We don't need to go any farther into that.

605. - No, no, no.

606. - One of those deals.

607. Anyway, he was out.

608. So anyway, he called Kris,

609. and then Kris sat him down and said,

610. you gotta get back into the business.

611. You're too good at what you do and you save too many lives.

612. So we helped finance him and find him a church.

613. We started at the movie theater in Calabasas,

614. Edwards Theater.

615. And you could rent the theater at nine o'clock

616. in the morning for 800 bucks or something like that.

617. It was pretty cheap.

618. We started him 360 seats

619. and the first service it was standing room only.

620. - That's crazy.

621. - Brad was back.

622. And since then the church has grown tremendously.

623. The California Community Church.

624. - He's a famous guy now.

625. You've given him fame.

626. - Well we try to help out, you know.

627. And it was worth it.

628. He's great.

629. - He's a great guy.

630. - So you'll pardon my confusion 'cause you.

631. - I try to confuse people.

632. That's my job.

633. - So I read from page 100 of your excellent book

634. The Secrets of My Life. - I like that.

635. Girls, cover work.

636. Thank you!

637. - So here is what it says on the top,

638. "I am firmly on the side of womanhood now,

639. "but I am not a woman, nor will I ever be."

640. Three sentences later,

641. "I use the women's restroom because I am a woman.

642. "I changed my gender on my birth certificate to female

643. "because I am a woman."

644. So there's a little confusion there, right?

645. - Not for me, what's wrong with that?

646. - Well here it says I am not a woman.

647. Here it says I am a woman.

648. - Okay, that.

649. My journey to womanhood was different.

650. I always had this woman that lived deep down inside.

651. I am very comfortable with the word transwoman.

652. Because my experience was very different.

653. I didn't grow up dating guys,

654. being around all the girls.

655. I was on the other side of the fence.

656. I will never have a period.

657. I'll never birth a child.

658. Raised a lot a kids but never actually birthed one.

659. I honestly I've always felt like

660. I don't want to put women down, I love women.

661. I don't wanna put women down thinking that

662. okay now all of a sudden, yes, I am this woman.

663. I'm a transwoman, okay?

664. My experience was different.

665. I can go to the women's restroom,

666. I can enjoy all the things of womanhood,

667. dress and be comfortable, and be comfortable with myself.

668. But it's almost like,

669. finally I got to the point in my life

670. where this little Caitlyn who's lived inside

671. of me all of my life,

672. and had to hide and sneak around

673. and do all this sorta stuff.

674. I got the point in life,

675. and a lot of it had to do with talking to Pastor Brad.

676. I got back into therapy

677. after Kris and I went our separate directions.

678. The reason Kris and I went our separate directions

679. wasn't because of my identity, it was a lot of other things.

680. But then there I was back in Malibu,

681. where I had sat in a house for six years

682. and didn't want to come out 'cause I never fit in anywhere.

683. I'm thinking what am I gonna do?

684. Am I just gonna shrivel up and die here?

685. The paparazzis were all over me.

686. I'd have four or five cars following me everywhere I went.

687. I couldn't move without a paparazzi taking pictures.

688. My life was hell.

689. What am I gonna do?

690. Got back into therapy.

691. Started bringing all my kids in one on one.

692. The media is destroying me out there.

693. Okay, I'm having pictures on the cover of People magazine

694. with my face on some woman's body.

695. - Really?

696. - Oh yeah.

697. My mother's asking me questions.

698. What?

699. - You ever think of suing or?

700. - You really can't.

701. They're tabloids, they do their stuff.

702. They still come up, every day, they come up with a new one.

703. I think this week it was I'm having a Brazilian butt lift.

704. I don't even know what a Brazilian's butt looks like.

705. - I do.

706. - Oh, you do, okay.

707. - Lord knows I do.

708. - You would know.

709. - No, we have a guy who went with someone

710. who got a fake butt, right Daniel?

711. - Yeah.

712. - And he said it was hard like a rock.

713. - Was it?

714. Yeah, I don't know.

715. So yeah, that was this week, a Brazilian butt lift.

716. I'm not, obviously.

717. - Now when you say.

718. - So anyway, let me just finish that one story.

719. So I talked to everybody in the family,

720. and the last person I had to talk to was

721. Pastor Brad. - Your mother.

722. Oh, thought

723. it was your mother. - It was Pastor Brad.

724. That came after that.

725. But I mean the last person to convince me that

726. this is what I need to do.

727. I sat down, I called Brad up.

728. He had seen all the stuff that's

729. been all over the media for two years.

730. So I sat him down, and I told him my story.

731. Because faith has always played a big part in my life.

732. No matter if you have any faith in you whatsoever

733. every trans person or anybody with issues,

734. because this book is about dealing with your stuff.

735. Everybody's got stuff.

736. This is my stuff, okay.

737. But you ask that question,

738. God, why did you do this to me?

739. Why is this gender thing going through my head

740. constantly every day,

741. and it's not like you can take two aspirin

742. and get plenty of sleep and you're gonna be fine.

743. No, it never goes away.

744. It just never ever goes away.

745. It's just how are you gonna deal with it.

746. You ask that question, am I doing the right thing?

747. So the last one I wanted to really talk to

748. before I decided to do this was Pastor Brad.

749. So I brought him and we sat down for like three hours.

750. We talked about my situation and everything.

751. Brad convinced me that God loved me.

752. But it was kind of that night I kind of had

753. not so much a revelation but the understanding that

754. you know I've done so much in my life.

755. Bruce pretty much did everything he could do.

756. Maybe it was time for this person

757. who's lived inside me all my life,

758. give her a chance. - Give her a shot.

759. - Give her a chance.

760. Let's see what she can do.

761. What a great opportunity,

762. playing in the fourth quarter of life

763. to see if you can make a difference in the world

764. in a very marginalized community.

765. Gender identity and being trans and all of that,

766. it doesn't have any borders.

767. Trans people are part of humanity.

768. They're in every country of the world,

769. but they're extraordinarily marginalized.

770. Like in some countries of the world

771. they could chop my head off and it would be legal.

772. Okay, that's how bad it can get out there.

773. We have our issues here but I mean,

774. on a global scale.

775. - America still.

776. - Yeah, we got issues,

777. but I mean on a global scale it's illegal.

778. - I think that's so cool how you said that

779. about how let's see what Caitlyn can do

780. in the last quarter of her life,

781. 'cause that's traditionally where you always excelled

782. in the comebacks in the fourth quarter.

783. - It is? - it is pretty interesting.

784. Well he said that he beat the guy by 18 seconds.

785. - No, no, that was the trials,

786. But in '76 he came into the second day.

787. - I'm talking about the trials.

788. - I saw that you built a big lead on day one.

789. - So my faith played a very large role,

790. and that was kinda the last hurdle.

791. I thought to myself well maybe this

792. is the re God put me on this earth.

793. - Well that's right.

794. - And maybe to make a change.

795. - It seems like the natural thing to do,

796. and I don't know if you ever did this in your life,

797. but it would be to curse God for giving you the wrong body.

798. - Oh, I did that, yes, I did that.

799. Of course leading up,

800. but eventually I came to terms with it

801. that maybe this is the reason he put me on this earth

802. to see if I can use my platform.

803. I couldn't do it in the 80s.

804. - Why not?

805. - Society wasn't the place.

806. - Did you ever think when they put the gold medal

807. around your neck and you just said it right there?

808. - The only one that at that time had ever done anything

809. like that was Renee Richards.

810. The media was not very good to her.

811. - There's an astonishing picture in the book of you with.

812. - I know, me and Renee, I know.

813. - With Renee Richards.

814. - I couldn't tell her.

815. I'm standing there, and it was at a banquet,

816. and I'm standing there and I just can't even tell my story.

817. I was dying to meet her but I you know.

818. - Renee Richards, for those of you who don't know,

819. a man who transitioned to

820. a woman. - Renee, that's true.

821. It's two.

822. One or the other. - Was a tennis player.

823. That was a tennis player.

824. Was very controversial.

825. - Very, very.

826. Because she wanted to play tennis.

827. She wanted to play women's tennis.

828. - Does the Olympics have that figured out?

829. - Oh, yes they do.

830. Actually the Olympic Committee is

831. so far ahead of the rest of the world.

832. People ask that all the time.

833. The Olympic Committee has been dealing

834. with this issue forever.

835. Back when I was competing in the 70s

836. all the women, especially the Soviet women

837. and East German women, had to get saliva tests.

838. - Right, right, right.

839. - Yeah, remember that?

840. - I saw some of those.

841. - I remember their outfits would be so tight

842. sometimes you could see their penis.

843. - The eastern block, yeah.

844. - I wasn't looking down there but I'm glad you were.

845. Anyway, yeah they had to take saliva tests

846. to make sure that their DNA was correct.

847. I was even in the weight room, my last lifting workout,

848. and this East German discus thrower girl came in

849. and she outlifted me.

850. And I thought, I gotta get out of this place.

851. Yeah, I gotta get out of this gym.

852. The girls in the gym are outlifting me five days

853. before I have to go compete.

854. This is not a

855. good thing. - You got the

856. world's greatest athlete.

857. - Yeah, yeah.

858. So I gotta get outta here.

859. Anyway, they've been dealing with it for a long time.

860. They've done a very good job.

861. They don't do saliva tests anymore,

862. but they have cleared the paths.

863. Over the last 15 years they've done a lot a studies

864. on the trans issues because things have come up.

865. There was a African runner, a half miler,

866. who if you looked at her you'd go, boy,

867. is she in the right race.

868. She was very very good.

869. Found out she was intersexed,

870. basically gender non-conforming genitalia.

871. So what do you do?

872. - What does that mean?

873. - That's a good question.

874. I was going to ask but I thought it'd be cooler

875. if I thought I knew. - We won't go there.

876. - Now what is an intersextionist non-conformist?

877. - A what now? - Genitalia.

878. - Gender non-conforming genitalia?

879. - Yeah.

880. - You're basically born with both sexes.

881. - Oh, like a hermaphrodite?

882. - Like a hermaphrodite.

883. - You have a penis and a vagina.

884. - Wow.

885. - Okay?

886. - Yeah, sure.

887. - I'd never leave the house.

888. - Huh?

889. - I would never leave the house.

890. - Oh, come on.

891. - God!

892. - I know.

893. - Actually.

894. - Do you find the whole issue sometimes

895. becomes just a sniggering thing?

896. It's not really about sex.

897. - I know but it's like when cis guys, we call 'em cis.

898. Cis is you're the same gender you were born in, okay.

899. Like cis women, it's like most, I wouldn't know,

900. I don't know maybe most of 'em in the audience.

901. - Some people really dislike that term cis male,

902. because a cis male as you explained is a male

903. who identifies himself as a male.

904. They say well,

905. you shouldn't marginalize a person.

906. - Ugh, you need to be marginalized.

907. - Is that the part of it?

908. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, you to be marginalized.

909. It's a way to identify somebody who is basically

910. lives and is the same sex they were born as.

911. I think it's the Latin word for the same as.

912. Transwoman is like transatlantic flight.

913. You go from one place to another.

914. Okay, that's trans, you move from male to female.

915. That's that journey.

916. Okay, so you call it transwoman.

917. - Can I ask you a question that

918. might be hard?

919. - Okay.

920. - But I've been putting a lot of thought into this

921. - Uh oh.

922. - knowing you know, we'd have you,

923. you'd be our most fascinating guest so far.

924. So you know you're a woman,

925. - Yeah.

926. - even though you're in a man's body,

927. but what is a woman?

928. - I have tried to answer that in my head.

929. I had one person come up and say,

930. "Well, are you a feminist?"

931. - You're not a feminist.

932. - Wait, wait, hold it.

933. That's something I never really had to think about, okay.

934. And I agree, what is it?

935. - Yeah, what is it?

936. 'Cause feminist, I think say men and women are the same.

937. - No, they're different.

938. Their experience in life is different.

939. - But you haven't had that experience at 10 years old.

940. - No, I had the experience of being male

941. at least in society, all my life.

942. Now I did do my sneaking around

943. and I did every, in the book,

944. I've did everything to try to just live with myself.

945. But since then over the last couple of years

946. that I've totally lived on this side.

947. Yeah, I do, but the experiences

948. are different on the female side.

949. It's been very interesting to me just to kind of

950. watch it and how the world kind of treats women.

951. Women's issues,

952. from abortion to Planned Parenthood

953. to all the other things that women are so passionate about.

954. Pay, those types of things.

955. - How did you stand and how do you stand on abortion?

956. - I respect the rights of people

957. from kinda the Christian side.

958. I respect their rights,

959. but I also think it's a woman's choice.

960. And I'm sure that will stay on the books.

961. It's not like going off the books here.

962. That'll stay on the books.

963. So I believe in a women's right to choose.

964. - Since it'll stay on the books,

965. you're saying why even discuss it.

966. - Well, yeah, there may be some issues

967. along the way with Roe v. Wade.

968. Is it a federal issue or is it a state issue?

969. Those types of things which will come up.

970. As far as Planned Parenthood,

971. I am for the funding of Planned Parenthood

972. when it comes to health issues for women,

973. 'cause it's extremely important.

974. I can understand the Christian right saying

975. we don't want our tax dollars going to someplace where

976. abortions are being done.

977. - I would gladly say. - You would say

978. fund Planned Parenthood as long

979. as they don't have abortions.

980. - As long as they can get a branch off that.

981. Okay, and they could go out and do fundraisers,

982. 'cause they could raise money and do it separate from

983. what the government's putting in.

984. - Well, that makes sense.

985. I have never heard that.

986. Has that been?

987. - People have talked about it,

988. but I think that would be a good way to kinda

989. solve the issue.

990. I'm not big.

991. I'm Conservative Republican so I'm not really

992. big into into large government.

993. I like the smaller the government.

994. I believe in the people of this nation.

995. I don't believe in the government of this nation.

996. - Do you think it has helped to be a Conservative,

997. yeah a Republican?

998. 'Cause I kinda think it's good.

999. - Uh, yes, I think it's very good.

1000. - Just to show that you're not lockstep.

1001. - Yeah, well put it this way,

1002. I would rather convince.

1003. I realize that the Republican Party does not do

1004. as good a job when it comes to LGBT issues

1005. than the Democrats do, I get that.

1006. - Obviously, yeah.

1007. - But on the big scale,

1008. 'cause I'm just not a one issue voter.

1009. - Oh, you got that big mansion.

1010. - Yes, I know so.

1011. So on the big side of it,

1012. I'd rather convince the Republican Party

1013. to do a better job with LGBT issues,

1014. than to try to convince the Democrats of less taxes,

1015. smaller government, less regulation.

1016. I just don't think that's ever gonna happen.

1017. And I could never convince them of that.

1018. I have worked and it's been great

1019. being on the Republican side,

1020. I've had a big in with the Republican Party.

1021. I go back to Washington D.C. quite a bit.

1022. I was back there a couple weeks ago.

1023. I do a lot of lobbying for the LGBT community,

1024. talk to a lot of people because I am on kind of their side.

1025. Before the election I sat in a room with

1026. like 15 Evangelical Christian Conservative

1027. Republican Senators and Congressmen,

1028. as we would call them in our community, the enemy.

1029. Sat down for three hours at a private home,

1030. and had dinner with them and talked about the issues,

1031. talk about faith, talk about all those types of things.

1032. I made a lot of friends of those people.

1033. I guarantee you all those people in that room

1034. never had met or even talked to anybody who's trans.

1035. - Right. - Oh, I'm sure.

1036. - I brought Zackary my assistant.

1037. - Even you had not met a trans person.

1038. - I had not met, so why should they?

1039. - When did you meet a trans person?

1040. - First one was after I came out.

1041. Geena Rocero, she's from the Philippines, a model.

1042. She did a YouTube video.

1043. - After you came out?

1044. This is the first time?

1045. - Uh, yeah.

1046. - Wow.

1047. - I couldn't out myself.

1048. - Are there no bars like the same way

1049. as there were gay bars when gays were?

1050. - I couldn't go there.

1051. - Well, of course not, I forgot.

1052. - Yeah, you and me hanging out at the trans bar.

1053. I don't think it's gonna work.

1054. - Well, nowadays we can.

1055. - Well, that's true.

1056. - Wait, I haven't come out yet!

1057. Hold on a second.

1058. - Do you have any secrets you want to talk about?

1059. Everybody's got their secrets.

1060. - Listen, we all got our secrets baby.

1061. That's why The Secrets of My Life,

1062. everyone has secrets, - Everybody.

1063. - it must be so liberating.

1064. - Oh, it's so liberating.

1065. I can talk about anything,

1066. which is a wonderful thing.

1067. Yeah, it's been quite a ride, it's been a lot of fun.

1068. Yeah, I've been much happier.

1069. Life is so much more simple.

1070. - Who do you got in the Open?

1071. - Yeah, it is.

1072. Who do got in the Open this week?

1073. - What's that?

1074. - I say who do you got in the Open this week?

1075. - Ooh, good question.

1076. You know what, I just,

1077. I really like Jordan Spieth.

1078. I just like him as a person.

1079. Actually, I like Rory Mcllroy as a person.

1080. - I do too, I like Rory.

1081. I like Jordan because he brings his sister with him.

1082. - Yeah, I like that.

1083. - That's sweet.

1084. - He got voted the nicest guy on the PGA Tour

1085. by all the players.

1086. - And who was the worst?

1087. - Who?

1088. - Bubba.

1089. - Oh, was it really?

1090. - Yeah, it was Bubba.

1091. - Really?

1092. Actually I've been around Bubba and he's always very nice.

1093. - Is he nice?

1094. - Yeah, he was always very nice.

1095. - He'll yell at his caddy.

1096. He'll go, six iron, huh?

1097. - But Jordan is such a nice guy.

1098. I like nice guys.

1099. When you're that good, especially at that young age,

1100. I got a lot of respect for him.

1101. I mean that's a tough tough game.

1102. I play golf all the time.

1103. - Is that the hardest sport in the world?

1104. - I've ever tried, yes.

1105. - Yeah, it is then.

1106. I remember Michael Jordan saying that.

1107. - What do you think is the most difficult sport

1108. that you haven't tried?

1109. - You said it was the most difficult.

1110. - Well if I haven't tried it

1111. I wouldn't know if it was difficult.

1112. Where do you get him?

1113. - I don't know.

1114. - Did you get him off the street?

1115. - He said it as if it the best question ever.

1116. - I hope it's not in his notes.

1117. - What sport that doesn't exist.

1118. - Yeah, is the hardest?

1119. Yeah, that's it.

1120. - We'll be back with more Nanity.

1121. We're back with Caitlyn Jenner.

1122. We were just talking about golf.

1123. - How is your golf game?

1124. - I'm so bad.

1125. Why, were you gonna invite me to play?

1126. - Not now.

1127. - I know I shouldn't say I'm bad.

1128. I wanted to play in a celebrity event,

1129. but my friend told me like you're lining up

1130. and there's all these people like

1131. with their heads stuck out like a little collection.

1132. - Yeah, you don't want to hurt anybody.

1133. - What are you?

1134. Are you scratch?

1135. - Not quite scratch, but I work at the game.

1136. I mean I enjoy playing.

1137. It's the one thing that I picked up at the age of 50.

1138. Kris bought me a membership at Sherwood.

1139. Beautiful course.

1140. - Oh, yeah.

1141. Sherwood?

1142. - I think she was trying to get me

1143. out of the house and it worked

1144. 'cause I started at that age.

1145. - How old were you when you started?

1146. - 50.

1147. - Oh my god.

1148. And you became almost scratch?

1149. - Well, yeah.

1150. - I guess you didn't have any bad habits

1151. to overcome so you could start fresh.

1152. - Well, I had bad habits but just not at golf.

1153. That's a whole 'nother story.

1154. It's in the book.

1155. - Now, Ben Wright, golf commentator,

1156. this was about 20 years ago,

1157. fired from CBS because he said that women's breasts

1158. were not good for the sport.

1159. - Oh, we're getting down into the dirty stuff.

1160. We're getting down into the dirty stuff.

1161. - This is an actual person who has golfed

1162. with and without breasts.

1163. - And without, yes.

1164. - So you can say, was Ben Wright correct?

1165. - Uh no, I'm hitting the ball just as well

1166. and just as far, probably better now than I was before.

1167. - Oh.

1168. - And...

1169. - Your short game.

1170. - It helped the putting.

1171. - Oh.

1172. I can see that.

1173. - Yeah, awesome!

1174. 'Cause you know how you bring your arms in like this?

1175. You got a little extra support.

1176. You keep that triangle going.

1177. You got a little extra help here.

1178. - Like a belly putter.

1179. - You would put a glove under your arm

1180. to keep your arms in when you're putting and stuff.

1181. Now you don't have to.

1182. You got those little babies right there.

1183. You just boom.

1184. Putt it straight.

1185. - Norm's gonna be the first guy to get

1186. breast implants to help his golf game.

1187. - Yeah, I don't think that's gonna help, yeah.

1188. - LPGA Senior Tour.

1189. - Yeah, there you go.

1190. - Caitlyn Jenner.

1191. - Okay, no I did.

1192. First of all,

1193. last week, week and a half ago,

1194. my good buddy Danielle Kang won the PGA Championships.

1195. - That's right, fantastic.

1196. - She's like one of my best friends.

1197. I talk to her after every round.

1198. She's a member at Sherwood, that's where she practices.

1199. I was playing with her when she was an amateur.

1200. She won two amateurs in a row.

1201. I was so excited for her.

1202. I mean, I'm just sitting there in front of the TV.

1203. I just couldn't believe she's finally

1204. living up to her potential.

1205. Yeah, what was the question again?

1206. I jumped off on Danielle.

1207. - Caitlyn Jenner.

1208. - Yes.

1209. - Senior LPGA.

1210. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1211. No, but I did do this.

1212. I played at the Senior event last year up at Sherwood

1213. where we had the first round of the Schwab Cup.

1214. So all the Seniors are there.

1215. They have a PRO AM the day before so I played.

1216. - Who were you paired with?

1217. - I get with Craig T. Nelson and Jesper Parnevik.

1218. Yeah, he was fun.

1219. - Jesper Parnevik,

1220. who's maid, no I'm sorry,

1221. who's au pair girl ended up marrying Tiger.

1222. - Yes, that's exactly right.

1223. Boy, you know all the gossip.

1224. All the gossip.

1225. - So you're Jesper and Craig, Coach Nelson.

1226. - I don't even want to go there.

1227. But anyway.

1228. So I get on the first tee.

1229. My first question is

1230. what tees am I gonna use?

1231. - Oooh.

1232. - Oh, now we're talking.

1233. Now we got one girl in our group.

1234. She was actually a former Miss America,

1235. and can play.

1236. The girl's got a game, yeah.

1237. I think she won 2015, something like that.

1238. 12 something.

1239. Anyway, she's got really good game.

1240. So I get on there and Craig T.'s on the team,

1241. and Jesper and all this.

1242. I said okay.

1243. I did this on camera for the Golf Channel.

1244. I brought over the PGA Tour rules guy.

1245. I said what are the rules, you know,

1246. of where I can tee off at?

1247. Can I go to the ladies tees?

1248. I got gender marker changed on my birth certificate,

1249. on my social security card, on my driver's license,

1250. everything is gender marker F, okay.

1251. So where do I go?

1252. So I asked my team

1253. where should I go, ladies tees?

1254. Everybody but Craig T. raises his hand.

1255. He says you hit it too far,

1256. you can't go to the ladies tees.

1257. I said, who cares?

1258. You're on my team.

1259. We're trying for our team to win.

1260. Let's be a team player.

1261. So I brought over the rules guy

1262. and I said what are the rules,

1263. the PGA rules for doing something like that?

1264. And he said there's no rules.

1265. I said to him you better make some rules

1266. 'cause trans people are coming.

1267. You might have to deal with this at some point.

1268. - Well, of course,

1269. because the PGA rules would not have anything

1270. about women in it.

1271. - Yeah, I know.

1272. - Although, that's not true.

1273. Women are allowed to play on the PGA.

1274. - Yeah, well we had, uh.

1275. - Annika.

1276. - Annika do it.

1277. Actually in Australia there is a trans girl that plays

1278. on the Australian LPGA Tour.

1279. - Oh, there is?

1280. - Yeah, trans girl that plays there.

1281. But anyway, so we all voted

1282. and I played from the ladies tees.

1283. - Oh, good.

1284. - Yeah, it was great.

1285. I can get every par five in two.

1286. You know so it was quite nice.

1287. - Oh, you can?

1288. Goddamn.

1289. That must be awesome.

1290. - It's good stuff.

1291. - You can get there in two?

1292. - Oh, yeah.

1293. I can get even from the mens tees I can get there in two

1294. in most cases, yeah.

1295. - Wow.

1296. - Length has never been a problem.

1297. I don't know if it's transitioning

1298. or 67 years old, it's the same thing,

1299. but I'm still hitting the ball, you know, 280.

1300. - The only thing age hurts I think mostly

1301. is putting. - Is flexibility.

1302. - Well, flexibility sure, of course.

1303. - Flexibility, that's where I've noticed it.

1304. - But women are much more flexible.

1305. - I hope so, 'cause I need the flexibility.

1306. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1307. - It's that good old estrogen I guess, huh?

1308. - I don't know what it is.

1309. What is it that makes a woman more flexible than a man?

1310. - How the fuck am I gonna know?

1311. - He's a great sidekick, isn't he?

1312. He's absolutely no help.

1313. He came up with Pastor Brad, which was good.

1314. - Yeah, he came up with Pastor Brad

1315. and then you having to imagine a sport that doesn't exist.

1316. Are you running for president in 2020?

1317. That's what someone told me.

1318. - I did read that.

1319. - I think you read a Senate run.

1320. - No, no, a Senate run in 2018,

1321. followed by a 2020 presidential run.

1322. - Um, no.

1323. At one point we talked about that.

1324. Since the political side of my community

1325. is extremely important, I work very hard at that.

1326. Because you're kind of in there,

1327. especially in the Republican side.

1328. That subject does come up,

1329. maybe you should run for a political office?

1330. I have to kind of look at that.

1331. Because if I'm trying to make change

1332. and the politics of it is very important,

1333. where can I do the best job for my community?

1334. - That would be the best job.

1335. You wouldn't be president but you'd

1336. be on that debate stage bringing it up.

1337. - Yes, bringing the subject up.

1338. But on the other side,

1339. what I'm looking at right now

1340. 'cause I have some other things that I'm working on,

1341. can't talk about but I'm working on,

1342. if they call

1343. I'm doing that stuff. - The congress stuff?

1344. - No, no, this is other things.

1345. But as far as politically,

1346. over the next six, nine months for a run in '18,

1347. you would have to make that decision.

1348. So my decision is am I better off on the outside?

1349. Like I'm at now where I can run in and go

1350. deal with this group and that group,

1351. and you're on the outside.

1352. You're more of a lobbyist on the outside

1353. to persuade people.

1354. Or are you better on the inside to be able to

1355. basically get one vote.

1356. I mean you know, on the inside.

1357. - Trump has proven that the outside isn't the place to be.

1358. - Really?

1359. Down in Mar-a-Lago or whatever it is.

1360. - Because well, you're friends with Donald Trump.

1361. - Well, I do know him, yes, yes.

1362. - It was almost if he had been a third party candidate

1363. he wouldn't have won,

1364. but he was basically a third party candidate

1365. within the Republicans,

1366. which is what you would position yourself as.

1367. - Now here in California,

1368. you know we had the Schwarzeneggers of the world.

1369. You know we had...

1370. - Remember those people that ran against him?

1371. - Which one?

1372. - That ran against Schwarzenegger during that.

1373. - No, I wouldn't want to do that.

1374. - Some odd people.

1375. Gray Davis.

1376. - Gray Davis.

1377. - That was the guy they booted out.

1378. - Yeah, that's true.

1379. But we had Ronald Reagan,

1380. no but he was President of SAG.

1381. - You've met Ronald Reagan?

1382. - I met him when he was, yeah.

1383. Great man.

1384. - What about this?

1385. Was Ronald Reagan the greatest president?

1386. Certainly of your lifetime I assume.

1387. - Yes.

1388. Yeah, he did the most for the country.

1389. - When you met him, he has astonishing charisma?

1390. - Of course.

1391. Yeah, he's Ronald Reagan.

1392. - Ronald Reagan, you can't beat him.

1393. - He's the man, yeah.

1394. - So which is your worst of the 10?

1395. - The first what?

1396. - Which is your worst of the 10?

1397. - Oh, the 10 events.

1398. - You can't remember the 10 events.

1399. - Well I do remember the 10 events,

1400. but I'm just looking at it a second.

1401. My worst?

1402. - That's bad handwriting, that's not your dyslexia.

1403. - That's a good question.

1404. - Can I guess?

1405. - Yes, you can guess.

1406. - I would guess

1407. the

1408. long jump.

1409. - Right. - Ah!

1410. - I would say the long jump, the 100 meters long jump.

1411. I was not given the gift of great speed.

1412. I had good speed.

1413. I think I ran like 10:09 in the 100 meters.

1414. - You have remarkably, in the picture of you pole vaulting,

1415. remarkably slender legs.

1416. Okay,

1417. here's the deal on the legs. - For an athlete.

1418. Okay, here's the deal on the legs.

1419. - They're very feminine.

1420. - Okay, here's the deal on the legs.

1421. Yes,

1422. - What was the deal on the legs?

1423. - They always used to look at my legs,

1424. like after the Games and stuff like that.

1425. Or jocks would look at your legs and they'd go,

1426. "Oh, my god, your legs are so skinny.

1427. "How did you do that?"

1428. My line was, these legs were made to go not to show.

1429. Okay, so that was a good line.

1430. You like that?

1431. - I like that.

1432. - And it kinda solves the skinny legs.

1433. Now.

1434. - There, look at that.

1435. - Now, that picture playing golf today.

1436. - It fits.

1437. - I said, wait a second, I gotta change that line.

1438. - Oh, right, right. - Saying,

1439. these legs are made to show and don't have to go.

1440. - Ahhaha.

1441. - See?

1442. So I got it all figured out.

1443. - After the Olympics you virtually quit.

1444. - I never did it again.

1445. - That's incredible, right?

1446. - Not really.

1447. - And then that's when the grand diversion was gone.

1448. - And that scared me.

1449. That's why I say in the book,

1450. I talk about that next morning waking up

1451. and looking in the mirror.

1452. Naked, not a stitch on. - With the gold medal

1453. around your neck.

1454. - Gold medal was on the counter there,

1455. put it on and looked in the mirror.

1456. And oh my god, what do I do now?

1457. Where do I go?

1458. And it was really very scary.

1459. It was very scary.

1460. - You know how you said you were Bruce with Caitlyn inside

1461. and now you're Caitlyn with Bruce inside.

1462. - Yeah, I still race cars, fly airplanes,

1463. do all that stuff, yeah.

1464. - You do some crazy stuff.

1465. - I have.

1466. I enjoy life.

1467. - Did you get that from your dad?

1468. - Probably.

1469. I just like living life.

1470. There's just a lot of things.

1471. - It's not like self-destruction because you're,

1472. or nothing like that?

1473. - No, nothing like that.

1474. I just enjoy doing it.

1475. If somebody gave you a really hot,

1476. fast race car and get on the race track.

1477. - I don't drive.

1478. - So bang 'em around a little bit.

1479. Bang fenders

1480. that's, - No!

1481. - that's so much fun.

1482. - Oooh, nooo.

1483. - So much fun.

1484. - No, sounds like my honeymoon.

1485. - I flew aerobatics.

1486. - I heard that you did everything

1487. and the only guy that

1488. would not throw up was your dad.

1489. - My dad was the toughest one ever in the pits,

1490. aerobatic airplane, yeah.

1491. - It's called the pits.

1492. - Thank you,

1493. you know all about that stuff.

1494. It's a little biplane.

1495. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1496. What'd you think when Harrison Ford went down?

1497. Twice.

1498. - Fortunately the good news is, well two mistakes,

1499. he went in once.

1500. He was a very good pilot 'cause he got it in and survived.

1501. - That's true.

1502. He landed on on Penmar.

1503. - He landed on Penmar.

1504. - Yeah, the other one,

1505. I don't know what the mistake was.

1506. Yeah, obviously he landed on a taxi way.

1507. The FAA doesn't like that.

1508. - Have you ever had any near?

1509. - No.

1510. No, I've been flying 40 years.

1511. Pushing 5,000 hours of sitting in the seat

1512. and never had a problem.

1513. - Wow!

1514. - Yeah, never had a problem.

1515. - God, I'm such a coward!

1516. - Well, you know.

1517. - I feel like I'm a brave person trapped in a coward's body.

1518. - Everybody has their stuff.

1519. Yeah, and that's it.

1520. - Everybody's got their stuff, man.

1521. Everybody got their stuff.

1522. You said you had a question.

1523. - I want to know about Can't Stop the Music.

1524. How did that come about?

1525. - This whole interview right down,

1526. right into the toilet.

1527. - In the toilet.

1528. - Can't Stop the Music.

1529. Does anybody in the audience even know

1530. what Can't Stop the Music is?

1531. Thank you, right there we got two right there,

1532. and nobody else knows.

1533. - For people at home,

1534. Can't Stop the music was a movie

1535. in 1978 - The Village People.

1536. - It starred the Village People.

1537. - Yeah, it came out in like '81, somewhere around there.

1538. It was a feature movie that I did with the Village People.

1539. - Gay icons.

1540. - Gay icons, absolutely.

1541. - Now when I was young I didn't think they were gay.

1542. I thought they were just Indians.

1543. - Yeah, I know.

1544. Yeah, Indians.

1545. Cowboys, Indians, all that kinda stuff.

1546. - Hey, what about this?

1547. - It was actually a fun movie to do.

1548. - It seems like it would be.

1549. - I knew a person who transitioned just recently,

1550. but first he came out,

1551. and I think this actually happened with Chastity Bono too.

1552. First he came out as gay,

1553. then he realized.

1554. - Who's that?

1555. - Just a friend of mine.

1556. But I believe Chastity Bono too.

1557. At first just said that she was gay.

1558. But you didn't have that problem because

1559. you like women. - Everybody's journey

1560. is different.

1561. - And you liked women, so you knew that wasn't.

1562. - I was always with women, yes.

1563. - So you knew you weren't gay?

1564. - No, I never had gay tendencies.

1565. You know the old saying is, it's kind of a cliche but,

1566. sexuality is basically who do you go to bed with.

1567. - Right.

1568. - Gender identity is who you go to bed as.

1569. I'm gonna ask you a simple question.

1570. Are you ready?

1571. - You're gonna ask me if they're both the same?

1572. - A question that you've never been asked before.

1573. I can ask the ladies in the audience too.

1574. Okay, but I'll just do it for your side.

1575. - Sure.

1576. - When did you know you were a boy?

1577. - Um, always.

1578. - Think about it.

1579. - Not always.

1580. - When did you know you were a boy?

1581. - When I was attracted to girls.

1582. - Okay.

1583. - I'm just guessing. - The reason I ask

1584. that question.

1585. - I think I'm wrong.

1586. - I think you're confused.

1587. - Well your piercing eyes went through me.

1588. - No, because the reason I ask that question is for that

1589. 30 seconds - I really don't know.

1590. That's my real answer. - Thank you.

1591. But the reason I asked the question

1592. is because for the first time probably in your life

1593. it wasn't about sexuality, about this and that.

1594. Of course you brought it over to that

1595. 'cause it's all about sex for you.

1596. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1597. Well that was my second answer.

1598. - Yeah, I know.

1599. - 'Cause I thought I was wrong

1600. 'cause you kept looking at me.

1601. - For that 30 seconds you sat

1602. you kinda go into your soul and say,

1603. wait a second when did I know this?

1604. Well, see that's what a trans person goes through

1605. 365 days out of the year their entire life.

1606. You can't take two aspirin, get plenty of sleep,

1607. and walk away and you're gonna be fine.

1608. It's just how you're going to deal with it.

1609. It's not about sexuality.

1610. It's about who you are in your soul.

1611. - Wow.

1612. - There's medical studies, this and that,

1613. about how the brain forms,

1614. the male brain, the female brain.

1615. In some cases they just don't coordinate very well

1616. with your biological sex

1617. and your psychological soul, basically.

1618. - But it really doesn't matter,

1619. it's just what you.

1620. That sounds extraordinarily tough.

1621. Like, life's tough enough

1622. without having this one. - Yeah, it is.

1623. You're telling me?

1624. You read the book.

1625. Yeah, it's very tough.

1626. - You got this one question that just.

1627. - It constantly is in your head.

1628. It never goes away.

1629. It's just how you're gonna deal with it.

1630. And my journey is different.

1631. - I like the humility that you show in the book, by the way.

1632. You say you're not brave.

1633. - No, no, no.

1634. - That you were in fact a coward

1635. and then finally - To do it for 65 years.

1636. I was a coward to do it, yeah.

1637. But see what happened I got to the point

1638. where I had that conversation with Brad,

1639. I had my peace with my family,

1640. and eventually got to my mom.

1641. I had my peace with God.

1642. The next one was how the heck

1643. am I gonna pull this off?

1644. - The public.

1645. - And that's when I called little Alan over there.

1646. - Oh, Alan Nierob.

1647. - Yes, yes.

1648. Who is my PR guy.

1649. - He killed that Time story quick.

1650. - Yeah, killed that Time story a million years ago.

1651. He was the first person.

1652. We hadn't really talked in

1653. - Alan!

1654. - over 25 years.

1655. I couldn't believe he was sill at Rogers & Cowan.

1656. I called Rogers & Cowan.

1657. - Most guys move around.

1658. - Yeah, I know, most guys do.

1659. They actually find another job or start their own company.

1660. - Yeah, sure.

1661. - So anyway, I called information, called Rogers & Cowan.

1662. They come on, I say Alan Nierob please, and they went,

1663. - Same office.

1664. - Yeah, I know.

1665. Now he's President of Rogers & Cowan.

1666. He was a little cub PR guy at the time.

1667. I called Alan.

1668. We sat down and we started figuring out,

1669. okay, how can we do this?

1670. Because Alan knew the story from back in the 80s

1671. with killing the New york Times article.

1672. - Was it, I'm sorry, go on.

1673. - Anyway, that was the beginning of it all.

1674. I have to admit with Alan's help in everything

1675. it could not have gone better.

1676. Because I was in the gutter.

1677. I mean I was I on every tabloid, every rumor,

1678. tabloid stuff, I mean for years.

1679. When we picked Diane Sawyer and then she decided to do it,

1680. we couldn't have done it with a better place.

1681. It was ABC News.

1682. It was not the trash.

1683. It was ABC News.

1684. It was credible.

1685. She got two hours instead of one.

1686. It's Diane Sawyer.

1687. It's a news story, hard news story.

1688. She did more, not just on me, but on this issue.

1689. You can only tell your story the first time once

1690. and couldn't have done better.

1691. Then Vanity Fair just two months later.

1692. - That was a great picture.

1693. Was that what's her name that does all the?

1694. - Annie Leibovitz.

1695. - Annie Leibovitz.

1696. - Was that her? - Yeah.

1697. 'Cause with the Diane we didn't mention Caitlyn's name.

1698. There was no addressing.

1699. It was just Bruce telling his story.

1700. Then two months later

1701. we kinda blew 'em away with Vanity Fair.

1702. Coming out I was going,

1703. I don't know if they're gonna be able to handle this.

1704. My kids thought it was.

1705. - Who, who?

1706. - The public.

1707. - The public.

1708. But my kids when they saw it,

1709. the Jenner side, the boys,

1710. they were saying, why the bustier?

1711. 'Cause there was a lot of other things that I could've wore.

1712. I had never had a stylist.

1713. I had never had hair and makeup done in my life.

1714. I'd always just done it myself or with a wig or something.

1715. Never had any of that.

1716. I never had Annie Leibovitz doing it.

1717. It was just like so much fun.

1718. And Annie was like crying during the thing.

1719. She goes, we're changing the world today.

1720. This is gonna blow 'em away.

1721. Although for my kids,

1722. they were a little like ehh on the cover,

1723. I actually really like the cover

1724. just because

1725. I wanted to shock people.

1726. I wanted to bring this issue forward quickly,

1727. that this is real.

1728. That little Caitlyn is a real person, a real woman.

1729. That was important.

1730. So when it came out I was so happy

1731. with the way it turned out.

1732. The next thing was two months later

1733. was gonna be the ESPYs,

1734. which actually they decided on

1735. the week before Diane Sawyer went on.

1736. Diane, 'cause it was ABC, actually they talked

1737. and they had heard about what was going on.

1738. So I knew that that would be my first public appearance,

1739. which was extraordinarily important for me.

1740. Not just for me going out for the first time in public,

1741. but I had the opportunity to accept

1742. a very prestigious award, which Arthur Ashe, I knew him.

1743. Wonderful human being and wonderful award.

1744. But I had a few minutes up there on stage

1745. to make a statement.

1746. That was very important,

1747. not just for me and my family who was in the audience,

1748. but also for our community.

1749. About what happens out there, the realities of it.

1750. Because right now the reality of being trans,

1751. I'm very fortunate,

1752. but the reality of being trans is homelessness.

1753. It is rampant, especially in this city.

1754. They all come here.

1755. Homelessness is just terrible.

1756. Our suicide rate's nine times higher

1757. than the general public.

1758. Kids are committing suicide all over the place.

1759. They can't handle it, mostly young.

1760. 41 percent of all trans people by the age of 21

1761. have attempted suicide.

1762. The murder rate right now

1763. is again the worst we've had it ever.

1764. - Is this social media?

1765. - Is what?

1766. - Is it social media the reason?

1767. - Social media has changed it.

1768. The suicide rate, yes.

1769. Social media has had a big impact,

1770. 'cause that's more devastating than it is

1771. just being bullied around your school.

1772. Now this goes out everywhere.

1773. It's devastating. - You can't escape it.

1774. - But the murder rate continues to rise.

1775. Right now almost all trans women of color,

1776. a trans woman of color is getting murdered

1777. one every two weeks.

1778. - Wow.

1779. - Yeah.

1780. I mean that's the realities.

1781. - That's a lot because the number cannot

1782. be that big to begin with.

1783. - Well, we have a very large.

1784. - What is the number?

1785. - Within the millions here in the United States.

1786. - Oh, really?

1787. - Oh, yeah, there are a lot more than you think.

1788. - I ask because I watched the ESPYs

1789. and I thought you said the thousands.

1790. - Well, I do say thousands.

1791. We have a very large sex work business for trans people.

1792. Actually they say about 25 percent of all.

1793. - They do good work.

1794. I've been up on Santa Mon,

1795. maybe I'm saying too much.

1796. - Yeah, I think you're talking.

1797. Leave that for the book.

1798. Leave that for the book.

1799. - Did you ever have a time in your life

1800. when you said I'm crazy?

1801. - Of course!

1802. - I'm talking about specifically the trans thing.

1803. You said I'm not a woman, this is insane, I'm crazy!

1804. I'm out of my mind. - I totally agree.

1805. Right there it's funny.

1806. Me, of all people,

1807. having to deal with this issue?

1808. - But thank god it was you.

1809. - Yeah, well maybe.

1810. - A rugged man,

1811. that's conservative.

1812. I mean you can do more than most.

1813. - Oh, I was that all time.

1814. Why me, why this, why that?

1815. Then every trans person does the exact same thing.

1816. - And there's no bars to go to?

1817. - I won't go out.

1818. - Yeah, we talked about this.

1819. We can't go out.

1820. I mean you can't go out.

1821. - I can go now,

1822. but that's not me. - Yeah, now you can go.

1823. That's not fair.

1824. - I don't go to bars and this and that.

1825. I go to work and I play.

1826. I'm very fortunate.

1827. In a lot of ways I'm very fortunate

1828. because I see a lot of people in the trans community

1829. that they transition at a very young age,

1830. and then family becomes a very big issue.

1831. Children become a very big issue for them.

1832. I see that all the time.

1833. I got a lot of young trans friends,

1834. and you know they want to date,

1835. they want to go out,

1836. but for a trans person there's just all sorts of issues.

1837. In a lot of ways and I look at that,

1838. and me transitioning at a later age in life.

1839. I lived a great life and I have no regrets.

1840. Bruce was a good person, raised 10 wonderful children,

1841. worked his butt off, put 'em all through school,

1842. gave them good guidance growing up

1843. and they're all out there in the world

1844. doing extraordinarily well.

1845. - And Bruce had to be famous for Caitlyn to become famous.

1846. - Actually one of the reasons in the book,

1847. 'cause when we started writing it

1848. Buzz started talking about the Games.

1849. I said, Buzz, I don't even wanna talk about the damn games.

1850. I wanna talk about the issues.

1851. I'm sick and tired of the Games.

1852. I don't even wanna go there.

1853. And he goes, you have to keep it in proper perspective

1854. of why it is the position that we're in today

1855. and why it's such a big deal to do that.

1856. It was 40 years ago, most people don't remember the Games,

1857. especially the next - I can't remember 'em.

1858. - generations coming up. - I don't remember anything

1859. about 'em.

1860. - Well, that's you.

1861. I understand.

1862. - I like your wink.

1863. Is that new?

1864. Is that a feminine, that wink?

1865. - That's right.

1866. - I like that. - You like that?

1867. 'Cause I can't wink.

1868. - You can't?

1869. Can you whistle?

1870. Does Bruce wink also or is that?

1871. - No, Caitlyn can only wink.

1872. Or at least get the effect.

1873. That Caitlyn can get.

1874. So we need to put in proper perspective like you say,

1875. I wouldn't be in the position

1876. and have the platform that I have today,

1877. to add my voice to this conversation,

1878. if it wasn't because of the Games.

1879. That was the one that started the whole thing.

1880. That's why people made such a big of it 40 years later.

1881. I get that.

1882. So kind of in the context of what I'm trying to do.

1883. - So it probably affirms your belief in God.

1884. - Yes, yeah.

1885. - And so forth.

1886. You gotta stop cursing God's name.

1887. - Really?

1888. - 'Cause God loves us all, right?

1889. - Yes, yes.

1890. Well, first we gotta love ourselves.

1891. That was tough for me to do for a long time.

1892. - That's a hard thing to do.

1893. - The hardest.

1894. - It's a hard thing to do.

1895. - This is gonna sound odd,

1896. and you don't know every trans person,

1897. but is there any subset of the trans community

1898. that go, I'm fine with my looks.

1899. I'll accept being in this body.

1900. - I got in a lot of trouble.

1901. I was speaking of me personally at the beginning.

1902. I said that, yes my appearance is important to me.

1903. That I wanna take my appearance.

1904. I don't wanna look like a man in a dress,

1905. as best I possibly can.

1906. Oh, man.

1907. - Oooh.

1908. - Did I get hammered for that one.

1909. Now I was talking about myself,

1910. but then the media takes off on that.

1911. And all of a sudden it's like

1912. what about all the gender non-conforming

1913. people that are out there that are very happy

1914. to kind of look gender non-conforming.

1915. - There are those people?

1916. - Oh yes, they're all over the place.

1917. Or in a lot a cases we

1918. - Or transvestites.

1919. - Transvestites, there's a lot a things out there.

1920. We have a large part of the community,

1921. in the trans community that

1922. in the old days I would say kind of openly trans,

1923. so you can tell that they're trans, you know.

1924. Then we have a large part that are what I would call

1925. originally, they're very stealth, you never know.

1926. I really had to change my thinking.

1927. You talk to a lot of people that say,

1928. just 'cause wording is so important,

1929. somebody is visibly trans, okay.

1930. You would look 'em and you know.

1931. - On purpose?

1932. - They like that, maybe that's what they like.

1933. Then you have certainly a large portion

1934. of the trans community that is,

1935. especially the trans guys, that are not visibly trans.

1936. I mean I said I never met anybody until I came out.

1937. And then they said well what about Tyler in the crew?

1938. It was a trans guy.

1939. Nobody ever told me he was trans.

1940. - Really?

1941. You don't have transdar.

1942. - No, and the guys are actually much more

1943. stealthy than the women.

1944. The ratio is almost 50/50, trans men to trans women.

1945. - Oh yeah?

1946. - But you never really hear much about the men.

1947. 'Cause testosterone's a very strong drug.

1948. The changes are really pretty radical.

1949. With not having to do much in the surgery department.

1950. Nobody knows what you got down there anyway.

1951. - Yeah, I've been fooled so many times.

1952. - Really, as a trans guy?

1953. - He gets catfished.

1954. - Yeah. - Really?

1955. - Constantly.

1956. - They start getting more male features.

1957. Their voice drops.

1958. Like in my case as a trans woman your voice does not drop.

1959. - Do you want your voice to drop?

1960. - At first I thought there's no way I can do this.

1961. 'Cause one, my voice sucks.

1962. - I thought they can scrape your voice box or something?

1963. - Yes, they can do all those things.

1964. But as far as your voice pitch,

1965. there are ways surgically that they can help that.

1966. They can't make it perfect but they can help that.

1967. - But maybe a woman doesn't have a higher pitch?

1968. - There is a lot of women out there that don't.

1969. So I even hear my voice and I go,

1970. oh god, it just doesn't sound like Caitlyn.

1971. But I don't wanna go through surgeries and all that crap.

1972. I really don't care anymore.

1973. I'm living my life.

1974. - Yeah, you got a great voice.

1975. Reminds me of Fraser Smith. - I'm living my life.

1976. I get it all the time.

1977. If you're on the phone, yes sir.

1978. I fly airplanes, yes sir, whatever it is on the radios.

1979. Oh, god, I still sound like Bruce right now.

1980. But on the other hand I don't wanna.

1981. It's me, this is who I am.

1982. Who cares? - Yeah, you're beautiful man.

1983. - Yeah, who cares?

1984. Just look good that's all.

1985. You know, come on.

1986. - Love you.

1987. - Good seeing you.

1988. - Caitlyn Jenner, everybody.

1989. Thank you so much.