Mindhunter 1x9

1. - It's like meeting a movie star. - Could be as anti-climactic.

2. "Crime of the Century." - Until Charles Whitman two weeks later.

3. I remember staring at this wanted poster of him, trying to figure out...

4. if I saw him on the street, would I know he was insane?

5. - You clip all these? - Everything I could get my hands on.

6. Even went to my neighbors who subscribed to newspapers outside of Milwaukee.

7. Holden and his first criminal crush.

8. I was home for the summer from college. It really made an impact.

9. Nancy didn't sleep for a week when it hit the front page.

10. She'd just started nursing school.

11. It still makes the news.

12. We should've let that suffice as our interview.

13. - Saved ourselves a trip out here. - He lied all through it.

14. Why? You don't think he'll lie to us?

15. Wonder how Bob Greene got him to talk.

16. Probably by kissing his ass.

17. He called him a romantic figure. He's as bad as you.

18. You would really turn down the chance to meet Richard Speck?

19. He's almost up there with Manson.

20. Well, maybe he'll give you an autograph.

21. That would be inappropriate, right?

22. Sign in.

23. All right. Go ahead.

24. Deputy Warden Armstrong.

25. Holden Ford. This is Bill Tench.

26. - The headshrink guys? Behavioral Science Unit.

27. Thanks for accommodating us.

28. You're the ones who painted this place pink?

29. The feds. You know, some psychology thing.

30. The color pink was supposed to keep the animals calm.

31. How'd that work?

32. I don't know.

33. They ate it off the bars before we could find out.

34. - Is this the only way through? - This is the way.

35. We prefer to come in quietly, make it look like a civil rights investigation.

36. Look around, how am I supposed to hide you?

37. We didn't want him to be seen as a snitch, suffer reprisals.

38. As far as I'm concerned, he could suffer the burning flames of hell for eternity.

39. - Okay, but that's not what we agreed to. - God, take it easy.

40. We pulled him to toss his cell. Do it twice a month.

41. It'll look like business as usual.

42. Armstrong.

43. From his groupies.

44. How does a man who slaughtered eight women have groupies?

45. Hundreds of them. Keeps the whole prison stocked in smut.

46. Stay behind me.

47. You goddamn motherfucking shits!

48. Get off of me! I'll fuck you up.

49. I'll fuck you so hard, your asshole will come out your motherfucking mouth!

50. Take it easy, Speck. - Get your fucking mitts off of my shit!

51. Son of a bitch!

52. Fuck your mama's hairy fucking asshole, you cock-sucking peckerwood!

53. Shit-bag, motherfucking twat!

54. I'm gonna shit in your goddamn fucking poontang, you fuck-ass—

55. Get off me, you cracker!

56. I ain't talking to the motherfucking FBI!

57. I wouldn't say that too loudly, if I were you.

58. Fuck you in your fucking mouth.

59. We'd like to have a conversation, Richard. Or what do you go by?

60. I'm not talking to no faggot feds.

61. Relax. We only want background information.

62. Stick your background up your fucking ass.

63. You're here, and we're gonna ask you a few questions.

64. We can make it brief,

65. or you can scream your head off and take all day.

66. You fucking turned my cell out.

67. How'd you like it if I looked up your fucking cracks?

68. I wouldn't like it at all. Going through your cell was not our idea.

69. Please.

70. Have a seat.

71. We're conducting interviews

72. with people who've been convicted of violent crimes.

73. We'll be asking about family history, antecedent behavior, and thought patterns

74. - surrounding the crimes— - Fuck you, Hoover boys.

75. Our goal is to publish a statistical analysis which will not include your name.

76. - You better know my name. I beg your pardon?

77. "Beg your pardon." Fuck you.

78. We know your name.

79. Everybody knows your name.

80. Who else you talking to?

81. People who've been convicted of similar violent crimes.

82. - I'm not like them. - No?

83. Don't think you've committed violent crimes?

84. I didn't say that.

85. How are you not like them?

86. Them fuckers are crazy.

87. Is that a bird?

88. Where'd you get it?

89. It had a broken wing.

90. I fed it meatloaf through an eyedropper.

91. Oh...

92. Did you give it a name?

93. They let you keep a pet here?

94. As long as I suck their dicks.

95. It won't surprise you, Richard, that we want to talk about July 14, 1966.

96. You'd been drinking since the morning, is that correct?

97. You'd gone a few times to the Maritime Union

98. to see about getting a job, but nothing had panned out.

99. Did this influence your state of mind?

100. You drank at the Shipyard's Inn Tavern until after 10:00 p.m.,

101. when you walked over a mile to 2319100th Street.

102. Did anything about the nurse's apartment catch your eye?

103. Was it your intention to commit robbery when you went to the door?

104. May I see your... tattoo?

105. I read about it. I collected these pieces on you.

106. The tattoo is kind of legendary.

107. I always wondered what it looked like.

108. You're gonna have to roll up my sleeve.

109. Okay.

110. Well, come here, then, little boy.

111. You want to pet my bird, too?

112. Uh, no. Thanks.

113. You went to the nurse's apartment, knocked on the door,

114. one of the young women answered it.

115. You flashed a knife at her, pushed your way inside,

116. realized there were several women home.

117. Was it still your intention to rob them at this point?

118. At what point did you decide to kill them?

119. - I'm sorry. - What?

120. I gotta ask.

121. What gave you the right to take eight ripe cunts out of the world?

122. Some of them looked pretty good.

123. You ever think you were depriving the rest of us?

124. Eight hot pieces of ass.

125. You think that's fair?

126. You're crazy.

127. That's a fine line that separates you from me.

128. How the hell did you even fuck eight women the same night?

129. What do you eat for breakfast, gunpowder?

130. - All right. - I didn't fuck all of them.

131. That story got blowed all out of proportion.

132. - I only fucked one of them. - The one on the couch?

133. - That's right. Why her?

134. - Could've fucked all of them. Why didn't you?

135. They kept coming.

136. One after the other.

137. What'd you do when they came home?

138. I put one in the bedroom, one in the closet.

139. You corralled them like ponies?

140. That's right. Tied them up. - Why'd you kill them?

141. Once I killed one, I had to kill all of them.

142. Why'd you kill the first?

143. She was crying and all, she was fucking loud.

144. You told Bob Greene she spit in your eye, said she'd pick you out of a lineup.

145. That son of a bitch, I should've never talked to him.

146. Why not? - He got the whole place all riled up.

147. - I just wanted to kick back. - Do your heroin, drink your hootch?

148. - That's right. - Where do you get that stuff?

149. Got my sources.

150. - Made my own still. - You made a still?

151. Hid it in a drawer in a guards' desk. Right under their fucking nose.

152. They couldn't figure out what the stink was.

153. Was that true about the first girl? She spit at you?

154. - Because they all sounded pretty timid. - All right, she got after me.

155. I told her to shut up.

156. - Did she shut up? She did what I said.

157. - Then why kill her? - 'Cause I wanted to.

158. How'd you do her?

159. Choked her.

160. Took forever.

161. Is that why you stabbed the others?

162. - It was faster? - That's right.

163. Originally, you told them you weren't gonna kill them, just rob them.

164. I guess I fucking lied.

165. - Maybe you got overwhelmed? No.

166. I just decided to kill them.

167. Except the one.

168. She was a sneaky bitch.

169. Hid under a bed.

170. You know, I never did have much use for math.

171. And all them girls, I lost count.

172. And there was blood fucking everywhere.

173. Yep, they all looked dead to me.

174. They'd done nothing,

175. except maybe start crying when they realized this was it.

176. Ever wonder why you did it?

177. No.

178. Not even curious? - I don't think about it at all

179. until peckers like you show up.

180. What about when you tried to off yourself?

181. Don't know what you're talking about.

182. In that motel. - I didn't do that.

183. - Well, you slashed your wrists. Fuck no!

184. - That was a fight. What?

185. - How I got cut. - Who'd you fight?

186. Some river coon trying to hustle.

187. - Just happened to be on both wrists? - I killed that motherfucker.

188. - You killed him, too? - Shit, yeah.

189. - I didn't see that in the paper. - Because nobody gives a fuck about that.

190. You lost a lot of blood.

191. - Did it hurt? - I didn't feel fucking nothing.

192. - Do you still feel nothing? - That's right.

193. It feels good, feeling nothing. - Sure.

194. Are you sure, when you slashed your wrists,

195. you didn't feel bad about those girls?

196. I told you, I didn't do that.

197. Maybe you weren't feeling bad about the girls.

198. Maybe you were feeling sorry for yourself.

199. Fuck you, peckerhead!

200. - You know why those cunts died?

201. Because it just wasn't their fucking night.

202. Well, that was fucked up.

203. When he started talking about feeding it through an eyedropper,

204. I actually felt sorry for the guy.

205. We really should videotape these interviews.

206. Audio is never gonna do it justice.

207. A video archive of our most violent offenders.

208. Imagine that for posterity.

209. "It just wasn't their night."

210. You might want to consider losing the tape.

211. What?

212. Or saying it got mangled. The recorder chewed it.

213. Why would I do that?

214. "Eight ripe cunts."

215. - I was getting him talking. - That excuse is wearing thin.

216. Bill, don't get caught up in semantics.

217. I don't like the language, and I know at least one person who won't either.

218. - Am I supposed to be cowed by Wendy? - I'm just saying...

219. You pushed back when she reamed us about Brudos.

220. Because we got something worthwhile from him.

221. I can do this stuff.

222. I can choke down the bile, manufacture empathy,

223. when our subjects are at least informative.

224. - You couldn't choke it down with Brudos— - Shut up, let me finish.

225. But someone like Speck isn't worth our time.

226. The fact that his death sentence was commuted is a national disgrace.

227. We decided no one was beneath our contempt.

228. That snail didn't change your mind?

229. - We can learn from snails. - What did we learn?

230. That some subjects have no idea what's behind the horrific acts they commit.

231. It was disgusting. I don't want to be part of it.

232. - When did you get thin-skinned? - I'm trying to warn you,

233. your attitude is gonna bite you in the ass.

234. There is no dishonor in losing at least the first three minutes of that tape.

235. Ladies and gentlemen, we will be arriving at Dulles momentarily.

236. Please make sure your seat belts are fastened.

237. Tray tables and seat backs should be in their upright and locked position.

238. You know, Gregg...

239. there are some things in this interview that were important to, uh...

240. But maybe best kept off the permanent record.

241. He admits to raping only one of the women.

242. - We already knew that. - Why does he bring it up?

243. He wasn't initially forthcoming.

244. I believe I asked him how he managed to have sex with all those nurses.

245. Wait, you caught him off guard, he told the truth?

246. - I guess so. - This rape was committed reflexively.

247. The crime scene photos indicate that she was facedown on the couch,

248. so she was already depersonalized to him.

249. It was probably just a "what the fuck" fuck.

250. So he goes to the boardinghouse drunk, looking for someone to rob.

251. And then he finds himself in this situation with all these women.

252. He corrals them and then he rapes one of them.

253. - To prove he can? - Statement of sexual competence.

254. Which he later exaggerates in the interview,

255. - claiming he could have raped them all. He was bragging.

256. He turned his suicide attempt into a bar fight.

257. Yeah, projecting machismo.

258. - "Born to Raise Hell." Yes.

259. It would be interesting to know how old he was when he got that tattoo.

260. Because that was the conscious decision for him to brand himself a badass.

261. We didn't get much history. The bird in the fan kind of ended things.

262. That moment? Vintage Speck.

263. You had just accused him of cowardice by attempting suicide.

264. And nobody born to raise hell is a coward.

265. The bird was just further demonstration.

266. I like the part where he doesn't want to be lumped in with other subjects

267. - because they're crazy. Again, projection of self-image.

268. Speck is powerful, superior, exceptional.

269. But did we learn anything new? Anything that wasn't in our files?

270. He had no idea what he was going to do.

271. Every single act he committed was... spontaneous.

272. We knew that.

273. Speck was so out of it,

274. the woman who answered the door was the only one he forgot to kill.

275. Yeah, but to hear him say it, that's extremely valuable.

276. We need terminology to distinguish a Kemper from a Speck.

277. One drives around with ropes, knives, plastic bags in his trunk

278. and returns to a specific hunting ground looking for specific prey,

279. while the other just happens upon his victims.

280. Organized and disorganized?

281. No. Those terms describe procedure. I'm looking...

282. For example, Charles Whitman is similar to Speck.

283. He killed 14 people in 90 minutes.

284. - He's not a sequence killer, he's... - Whitman was on a spree.

285. His victims weren't selected.

286. - Just wasn't their night. - Bill?

287. Spree is good for Speck or Whitman.

288. But I think sequence killer is wrong for someone like Kemper.

289. - It feels too cadenced. - Perhaps.

290. It should feel like a long story. Continually updated.

291. A series of killings.

292. - Serial? - Serial murderer?

293. Serial killer?

294. That's better. Let's see if it sticks.

295. - Six more years? - At least.

296. Another year to complete my Masters,

297. a year of exams to get a doctoral candidacy,

298. and the dissertation takes two if you're extremely motivated, usually four.

299. - You drink out of these? - Just the one that's drying.

300. Store them upside down.

301. - Anyway, I'll be 30 before I get my PhD. - That's still impressive.

302. Is that why I'm doing this? Who am I trying to impress?

303. - I thought you loved this stuff. - "This stuff"?

304. Yeah, the sociological constructs that you're always espousing.

305. - The Goffman and the Higel— - Hegal.

306. - Hegal. - I knew it.

307. In one ear, out the other, little Debbie's stuff.

308. I'm talking generally, not trying to minimize—

309. You perk up when I talk about something that has to do with your work,

310. - but the rest of the time— - I don't think you can put this on me.

311. You've made it clear I'm not to get between you and your—

312. "Stuff." Maybe that's all this is.

313. Maybe that's why I'm wondering if I want to spend the rest of my life—

314. Just now doing the math?

315. Not all of us land feet first in our ideal vocation, Mr. Ford.

316. - You think that's me? - You've found this microscopic niche

317. interviewing freaks, and you couldn't be better—

318. - Hello? - Mr. Ford, I have a Mrs. Wade to see you.

319. - Who? - Uh, she says—

320. What is this regarding, ma'am?

321. - She's the wife of someone you had fired. - Oh.

322. She says to remind you of someone named Roger.

323. Okay.

324. If you'd like, I can call somebody.

325. Send her up.

326. What?

327. What is it?

328. Mr. Ford?

329. Mrs. Wade.

330. That's right.

331. How did you find me?

332. It took a while.

333. You might not want to follow a federal agent.

334. There could be consequences.

335. You're just a kid.

336. - What do you want? - So young to be ruining people's lives.

337. - Mrs. Wade. - I'm sure you're aware

338. that Roger was let go by the school district.

339. I was not aware.

340. Which means he can never again work in Prince William County.

341. We've been in our home for 23 years.

342. We have a daughter who's still in high school, so moving is impossible.

343. He's been looking for work all over Virginia, Maryland, Delaware,

344. as a guidance counselor,

345. a substitute teacher.

346. But no one wants him near children. And children are his life.

347. I am very sorry to hear that,

348. but I had nothing to do with your husband—

349. I understand you told the superintendent he could be a pedophile.

350. You've been misinformed.

351. So... you're saying that you didn't talk to anyone?

352. - This was started by teachers. - You mean Janet Ebner?

353. Roger was going against the wishes of faculty and parents.

354. - He'd been given every opportunity to— - He did nothing wrong!

355. I don't know what to tell you.

356. I almost don't know him anymore.

357. I've never seen him so morose.

358. He doesn't sleep. I wake up in the middle of the night,

359. he's in the living room, staring at snow on the television.

360. He's almost 50 years old.

361. We have three children, two of them are studying to be teachers.

362. We were respected in the community.

363. Suddenly, people who've known us for years

364. pretend they don't see him on the street.

365. Someone spray-painted "kiddie fucker" on our driveway.

366. Would you like to come in?

367. You're very young as well.

368. Do you know what kind of person you're married to?

369. We're not married.

370. Then there's still time.

371. What did you do?

372. Nothing.

373. - What am I looking at? - Came in from the Atlanta field office.

374. Twelve-year-old girl raped and murdered after she got off the school bus.

375. Atlanta?

376. Adairsville, 60 miles northwest of Atlanta.

377. Contact the case lead, see if he'll send us more info.

378. Lisa Dawn Porter disappeared after being dropped off at the driveway to her house.

379. Her body was found in a wooded area, ten miles away.

380. Cause of death was determined to be blunt force trauma to the head,

381. probably from this rock.

382. Marks indicate manual strangulation from behind.

383. - She was a cheerleader? - Majorette.

384. They march with the school band, twirl batons.

385. What else do we know about her? Habits? Personality?

386. By all reports, she was a good girl.

387. No drugs, no alcohol, no boyfriends anyone knows of.

388. Autopsy indicates that she was a virgin before all this.

389. - Low-risk victim, low-risk setting. - Her clothes were disheveled,

390. there was no debris on them, no dirt, no leaves.

391. They think she was raped in a vehicle, but killed in the woods.

392. - Disheveled how? - The buttons were misaligned.

393. So she undressed, probably when the unsub raped her,

394. and then she got dressed again in a hurry.

395. He either allowed her to do it or he encouraged it.

396. Mm-hmm.

397. He put the coat over her face?

398. That's how she was found. It was yellow.

399. A young couple noticed it walking through the woods.

400. What do you think that means?

401. If he places it over her head, it's like he's covering up what he's done.

402. - He's ashamed? Okay.

403. That's consistent with her getting dressed.

404. He's concerned for her.

405. In that way that child rapists can be concerned.

406. Let's say there's shame. What does that tell us about him?

407. - This might be his first murder? Good.

408. - He's young? - How young?

409. Maybe another teenager? Someone that knew her?

410. Strangulation. Even 12-year-olds rarely comply, takes real strength.

411. - Mid to late 20s? - That's where I'd put him.

412. He intercepted her between the bus stop and her home only a short distance away.

413. It's possible he knew when she was coming home from school.

414. The woods where she was found is a known make-out spot for locals, so...

415. - he's likely from the area. Good.

416. - They knew each other? - Can't assume that.

417. He could have threatened her at gun or knifepoint.

418. - Absolutely. If he knew her schedule,

419. then he probably planned the kidnapping, which means he likely planned the rape.

420. But did he plan the murder?

421. What does the crime scene tell us?

422. He left the body in full view at the scene of the murder.

423. - He left the murder weapon by the body. - And the yellow jacket?

424. - Um... - It's the opposite of hiding her.

425. All of this indicates a disorganized, spontaneous act.

426. He planned the rape, he didn't plan the murder.

427. - He might even feel bad about it. - Nice.

428. Thanks. So I should get back to them and tell them what we're thinking.

429. Are they expecting to hear back?

430. Yeah. This isn't just an exercise, is it?

431. School bus dropped her off right there.

432. Eighty yards to the driveway, a hundred yards to the house?

433. Did she even make it to the driveway?

434. Well, her mother was home.

435. She didn't see anything, hear anything.

436. So he probably picked her up on the road.

437. We think someone was waiting for her, knew when the bus would drop her off.

438. - Think she knew him? Unclear.

439. You checked out family, friends?

440. Looking into it. No red flags so far.

441. We're sure there's no boyfriend in the picture?

442. All her girlfriends say no, even on the sly.

443. Was she popular?

444. Family said she was... gregarious.

445. - Majorette? - Mm-hmm. That's right.

446. The outfit is flashy. Shows off her legs. Might have been what caught his eye.

447. Did she wear it to school?

448. They found it in her backpack.

449. A stranger who knew her schedule.

450. He must have been watching her.

451. - Who would have reason to be out here? - This is farmland.

452. Seasonal workers?

453. Well, I can check.

454. The area where she was found, it was familiar to locals?

455. It's known as a lovers' lane.

456. - Lovers' lane? - Jesus.

457. - Could he have thought of it as a date? - He truly was not thinking ahead.

458. We don't believe the unsub planned the murder.

459. He certainly didn't try to cover it up.

460. Like Gregg said,

461. if he knows about a lovers' lane, he could be from the area.

462. And it might not be his first rape.

463. See what records you've got on young men in the Floyd and Bartow Counties.

464. - Yep. - How often does this get done?

465. - Hm? - The trees.

466. They've been cleared around the power lines.

467. Oh...

468. Well, this is rural Georgia.

469. Not very often.

470. Well, those limbs are freshly cut.

471. You think a service crew might have been out here?

472. Thank you.

473. I just got off a call with Floyd County.

474. They say they recently questioned a guy about the rape of a 13-year-old girl.

475. He works for a tree-limbing service.

476. - He spent a week on the Porter's street. - Bingo.

477. Name's Darrell Gene Devier, 24 years old.

478. High school dropout.

479. Was in the army, went AWOL, discharged after seven months.

480. - Couldn't handle the military. - Disorganized.

481. - Makes sense. - Single? Married?

482. Married and divorced twice. Living with his first ex-wife.

483. Sexually and socially competent, if indecisive.

484. Can't get over the young girls.

485. Every afternoon, he watches Lisa get off the bus.

486. She's got a sunny disposition, maybe she even talks to him.

487. He sees her in her majorette outfit. It makes her look a little older than 12,

488. and he's able to justify his attraction to her,

489. maybe even fantasize that she would enjoy having sex with him.

490. But once he's assaulted her, she is terrified,

491. she's in pain, she's crying.

492. Not fun. The fantasy's over.

493. He realizes, to get away with it, he has to kill her.

494. Has her get dressed, he'll let her go. When she turns around, he strangles her.

495. It's harder than he thought, he can't finish.

496. So he picks up a rock.

497. After, perhaps shocked at what he's done or ashamed,

498. he puts the coat over her head.

499. We're getting a warrant to search his car.

500. - We'll bring him for a lie detector test. Not recommended.

501. The outcome of the polygraph can depend on the quality of the questions.

502. We use it all the time. It's standard procedure.

503. If he's a sociopath, he doesn't register emotions the way we do.

504. Wait, you said he might be ashamed for what he's done.

505. - Now, how's that square with a sociopath? Murdering a little girl?

506. He had the confidence to take a human life.

507. If he beats the polygraph, he'll think he's Superman.

508. Thanks for coming up.

509. It's always a pleasure to see daylight. What's the bad news?

510. We have a branch of the Department of Justice

511. called the Office of Professional Responsibility.

512. That sounds very bad.

513. They look into allegations of official misconduct.

514. Usually there's nothing to it, but they can make your life difficult.

515. They are considering investigating the unit for a civil rights violation.

516. Is this about Brudos?

517. This is about Richard Speck.

518. He was jumped by a couple inmates

519. after the interview conducted by Agents Tench and Ford.

520. Claimed they made a public show of his meeting with the FBI,

521. didn't respect his safety.

522. How the agents interact with the prison administration is not my purview.

523. Understood. That's not really the charge I'm worried about.

524. Speck also wants to cite Agent Ford for "fucking with his head."

525. Anything specific?

526. No, but we have all suffered Agent Ford's head fucking.

527. - Indeed. - So it has an ominous ring of truth.

528. What is the format for evaluating these subjects?

529. A short script and a questionnaire, but the agents don't always adhere to it.

530. Why did you mention Brudos?

531. During his interview, Brudos was obfuscating,

532. so the agents brought in a woman's shoe to elicit a response.

533. Was that part of the script?

534. If I were being polite, I'd call it bad improvisation.

535. I'm asking all of this because no one's crying for Richard Speck.

536. He can file a complaint and they are required to look into it.

537. But these internal affairs types justify their existence by finding dirt,

538. and I want to make sure there's nothing here.

539. - Nothing that I can think of. - Good.

540. Tell the boys that the OPR would like to see them at their earliest convenience.

541. They should take all their materials, everything Speck-related.

542. You know, I don't want to be their boss.

543. I'll be the boss. You be the messenger.

544. All right.

545. Fucking Richard Speck filed a complaint? That piece of shit.

546. We violated his rights.

547. Those morons at Joliet didn't do a thing I asked.

548. Okay, so tell the OPR that. It sounds like it is just a formality.

549. It's a pain in the ass.

550. It shows they're interested. Take everything that you've got on Speck.

551. - Like what? - Like the file, the tape, transcript.

552. You're coming with us.

553. Hey. Hey.

554. The transcript is fine.

555. Please state your names.

556. Special Agent William Tench.

557. Special Agent Holden Ford.

558. Special Agent Gregg Smith.

559. In what capacity do you serve the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

560. For the record.

561. We're in the Behavioral Science Unit.

562. How would you summarize what you do?

563. - Research. - Could you be more specific?

564. We're engaged in a study

565. funded by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration

566. and the National Institute of Justice

567. to interview criminals convicted of violent crimes,

568. classify their behavior,

569. and create a profiling manual for domestic law enforcement.

570. Hm.

571. You're here because we have complaints filed against the Bureau

572. by the Illinois Department of Corrections on behalf of an inmate

573. who claims you knowingly put him in danger with your visitation.

574. - Richard Speck. - That's right.

575. If I may, we made arrangements that we felt would guarantee his safety.

576. When we arrived,

577. the deputy warden took it upon himself to ignore all of them.

578. - Were these verbal arrangements, written? Written.

579. I have their faxed agreement to our terms.

580. Agent Ford, you're directly named in the complaint.

581. The inmate said you, quote, "fucked with his head," unquote.

582. I'm sure the nature of my questioning brought back uncomfortable memories.

583. - You asked him about... The night he killed eight women.

584. His sexual performance. Stuff like that.

585. - Are these questions prepared in advance? We work from this.

586. But every subject is different.

587. We usually have to improvise.

588. With Speck, I applied a slightly aggressive interview style,

589. tried to speak his language.

590. Speak his language?

591. Get into his rhythm.

592. I'm assuming you have a record of the interview.

593. We have a transcript.

594. Gregg?

595. - Where did this come from? Tape of the interview.

596. Tape? You have the tape?

597. We reuse our tapes. I'm afraid that we erased that interview.

598. You erased the interview?

599. Yes.

600. We recommend you do not do that in the future.

601. No, sir.

602. I'm assuming your funding would cover the purchase and archiving of audio tapes.

603. Yes, sir.

604. Are there other materials you have to share with us?

605. These are the pre- and post-interview notes on the inmate.

606. Should be everything.

607. Gentlemen, we'll review these and keep you updated on our findings.

608. What we expect from you during this process,

609. more than anything, is candor.

610. Richard Speck, what a shit stain, huh?

611. Read to the end.

612. We should have kept the tape just for that.

613. - Fascinating. - Thanks, guys.

614. I'm soaking. I sweat right through my shirt.

615. - I noticed. - I'm not good at this.

616. It's over, you did fine.

617. What should we do with the tape? Destroy it?

618. Probably. Where is it?

619. - In my desk. Just give it to me.

620. This whole thing makes me nervous.

621. You said that, Gregg.

622. It's a prison interview, not Watergate.

623. - What's going on? - Maybe you can tell us that.

624. Holden, would you care to do the honors?

625. What did you tell the Office of Professional Responsibility?

626. Nothing. There was nothing there.

627. We gave them a transcript, that's all.

628. So you're in on this, too?

629. Well, Agent Ford approached me—

630. Do not say, "Holden made me do it."

631. Sorry, I apologize.

632. I don't even know where to begin. Wendy?

633. "Eight ripe cunts"?

634. - Sure, let's start there. - Jesus, not this again.

635. Did you have Gregg redact it?

636. - So you must have known it was sensitive. - Sensitive for some people.

637. - Meaning me. - I don't like it either.

638. We can't like everything we do. We're talking to serial killers.

639. - "Serial killers"? - New terminology.

640. So you're gonna say and do whatever you want.

641. Never mind that we are answerable to the LEAA and the NIJ.

642. This study is funded with Congressional dollars, taxpayer money,

643. which means your interviews are public record.

644. I would've left it as is.

645. I really don't have a problem with this being public.

646. All of us have to go along with what you consider to be appropriate?

647. We've never discussed what's appropriate.

648. - Of course we have. - We haven't made decisions.

649. There's no procedural rule book for how to talk to these people.

650. We spent a month drawing up that questionnaire.

651. It is a framework for substantive input.

652. - It doesn't always work. You haven't let it work.

653. You're so impatient, you weren't in there three minutes with Speck

654. before you got him going with the cunt speak.

655. That's when he admitted to raping only one of the women.

656. You want truffles, you gotta get in the dirt with the pigs.

657. No, we don't.

658. We are the FBI.

659. Look at that board.

660. Look at our work.

661. Because of that, Bill and I were able to identify a murderer

662. last week in Georgia.

663. This is no longer a theoretical exercise.

664. That board is mostly the result of background research,

665. not priceless gems you seem to think you're mining.

666. It all goes together.

667. Everything we do informs the bigger picture.

668. Right, and if our tactics blow back on us, then the whole thing could be jeopardized.

669. We have at least 40 convicts to interview, the data will aggregate—

670. There is no need to wait that long.

671. What happened in that meeting?

672. I lied. I outright lied to the OPR.

673. What did you say?

674. That I erased the Speck tape.

675. - You gave them the redacted transcript? - Yes.

676. - They don't know about the "ripe cunts." - They don't care.

677. So we're all in on a little cover-up here.

678. I can't be part of a cover-up.

679. - You told them there was no tape. Well, I was, um...

680. I don't do deceit very well.

681. There is no way they will know about the tape unless we tell them.

682. - We just don't say a thing. I disagree.

683. We turn the tape over and be completely transparent.

684. If we're caught in a lie, it'll be very bad.

685. - I'm okay with it. - I started this thing.

686. It is not too late to go back to the OPR.

687. - And tell them what? - The truth.

688. Easy for you to say, Wendy, you're a consultant.

689. If they open an investigation, which they will—

690. Leave it.

691. Burn the fucking tape.

692. They don't give a shit about Speck. Nobody does.

693. This can die right here.

694. We are not going to turn in the tape.

695. We're not going to speak about this anymore. We will protect the unit.

696. But something is wrong here.

697. In my entire professional life, I've never been put in a position

698. of having to withhold information from the Bureau, and I resent it.

699. Moving forward, establish clear guidelines for the behavior in these interviews,

700. and you will adhere to them.

701. I never want to listen to a tape where I can't tell the difference

702. between my agent and some incarcerated lowlife.