Mindhunter 1x6

1. Okay.

2. - Thanks for coming up, Dr. Carr. - Of course.

3. I realized I don't know much about your life in Boston,

4. outside of your work at the university. Do you have a husband?

5. - No. - Kids, or...?

6. No. Neither.

7. I've been following your work, and I have to say I'm rather impressed.

8. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

9. I'm not the only one. There's a growing interest in your project around here.

10. So I was wondering, Agents Tench and Ford can't run this all by themselves,

11. if you would be interested in managing the project and keeping things on track

12. in a more permanent position here at Quantico.

13. - No. I can't. - You don't have to answer now.

14. It's very flattering, but I already have a job in Boston.

15. Dr. Carr, your knowledge and professionalism

16. have already had a great impact

17. on our understanding of behavioral science.

18. It would be a shame not to take full advantage of that.

19. Take your time.

20. Sleep on it.

21. I'd rather you didn't tell Tench or Ford about this until you make your decision.

22. - They don't know? - No.

23. I have two questions for you, Benjamin. First one...

24. - That thing on? - Yes.

25. What the fuck were you crying about last time we saw you?

26. And secondly, and this one is a big question,

27. so I want you to listen very carefully.

28. Are you listening to me? Benji?

29. Why? Why would you do that to Beverly Jean?

30. Fractured jaw. Two black eyes.

31. Why?

32. Fourteen stab wounds in the torso with a kitchen knife.

33. Blow to the head, blunt force trauma.

34. Her breasts were amputated.

35. I need to know this.

36. Why would you do that to your girlfriend, man?

37. I didn't.

38. So you're telling us it was Frank.

39. He called us. He was freaked out. I went over.

40. - And then? - I walked into the living room

41. and Beverly Jean was knocked out on the floor, tied up.

42. Did he tell you what happened?

43. Benji was a total mess.

44. Think he tried to get into her panties, she wouldn't let him, he knocked her out.

45. - That's why he called you? - He calls me when he's in trouble.

46. She was alive at this point? - Yes.

47. - So why'd you kill her? - Don't answer that.

48. I didn't.

49. Why would a man, any man, do that to a woman's breasts?

50. And who would take a hunting knife to a woman's reproductive organs?

51. All right.

52. "All right"? There's nothing right about it.

53. That's enough. Now my client's also a victim here.

54. A victim? Interesting, thank you, I'll take that.

55. Let's do an easy one. Why did you do that to her hair?

56. You don't have to answer that. So you did cut her hair?

57. Frank seems to think Beverly Jean got to a point

58. where she was interested in seeing other guys.

59. - She'd just had her hair done, right? - Let me ask you one more thing.

60. How does stabbing somebody in the asshole make you feel better?

61. Enough. This is speculation.

62. You still have the death penalty in Pennsylvania?

63. Don't threaten my client.

64. Tell us you're not a monster. Give us one reason to believe.

65. She fucked Frank.

66. He told you this?

67. I saw. What?

68. I saw her on the living room floor with Frank on top of her.

69. So what did you do?

70. Nothing. - You didn't do anything?

71. No. - You didn't hit him?

72. - No. - You hit her.

73. Why would Beverly Jean want sex with Frank?

74. He's always saying he liked her hair.

75. Every time he saw her.

76. Thing is, he didn't care about her hair at all. He just used it to rile me.

77. She was too stupid to notice.

78. - So you killed her? I didn't kill her.

79. She was already dead when I stabbed her.

80. She was already dead.

81. You raped her in front of him? - He told you that?

82. Why fuck your brother-in-law's girlfriend?

83. - Maybe show him how to do it? - Maybe to mess with him?

84. Fuck you.

85. I hope they fry your ass in the fucking chair.

86. Don't try to intimidate my client.

87. If Benjamin killed her, you should just tell us.

88. I didn't see Benji kill her.

89. I hate that fuck Frank, but it's always the boyfriend.

90. When you're lost, you play the odds. It's Benjamin.

91. I'm not so sure.

92. You should have seen Frank after you walked out of the room.

93. He looked at me and said, "I did not see Benjamin kill her."

94. - They're messing with us. - I believed him.

95. - I am sick and tired of this shithole. - I know.

96. Hey. Nancy made me promise to invite you to dinner.

97. She wants to see who I'm spending all this time with. Have a look at you.

98. I would love that.

99. - Could I bring Debbie? - Of course.

100. - Thanks.

101. I saw Benji.

102. He had his head in his hands. He was crying.

103. There was blood everywhere.

104. Splashing.

105. And then I see Beverly Jean in the bathtub.

106. Was she alive?

107. I saw Benji.

108. He had his head in his hands. He was crying.

109. There was blood everywhere.

110. Splashing.

111. And then I see Beverly Jean in the bathtub.

112. She was there.

113. What makes you say that?

114. "Splashing."

115. She doesn't describe splashes on the wall,

116. she uses a verb in the present tense.

117. She says, "Splashing."

118. There was blood everywhere.

119. Splashing.

120. Beverly Jean was still alive when Rose got there.

121. Jesus.

122. The three of them are in it together.

123. That's right.

124. This feels very grown up.

125. What does? - This.

126. Going to dinner at your partner's house.

127. You putting on a tie and being all nervous.

128. I am not nervous.

129. - If you don't want to go, just say so. - I do want to go.

130. Well, you could be a little less sarcastic.

131. What makes you think I'm being sarcastic?

132. That's better.

133. Hi. Welcome. Please come in.

134. Hi! I'm so happy that you're here. Come in.

135. - I'm Nancy. - I'm Bill.

136. Debbie. I've heard a lot about you.

137. I can only imagine what Holden might have said.

138. I have been dying to meet you. Isn't it crazy that we haven't met yet?

139. Yes, I've been dying to meet you, too.

140. Look at you. You're babies.

141. Would you like a glass of wine?

142. I'd love one.

143. I have so much to talk to you about.

144. Let's get you a drink.

145. Well, hello there.

146. Say hello, Brian.

147. It's okay. I used to have these when I was a kid.

148. I used to see how tall I could make the tower before it fell over.

149. May I?

150. - Oh! - Uh-oh!

151. Brian, its almost time to brush your teeth.

152. Come on, let's have a drink.

153. I'm getting too old for one cheap motel after another.

154. One highway grill after another.

155. Sports bars. No one can mix a martini.

156. Mm! I can mix a martini.

157. - Nancy makes the best dry martini. - Is that right?

158. If nothing else, I can do that.

159. What about you?

160. - I can't mix a martini. - But he sure can drink 'em.

161. No.

162. Where are you from? Bill never tells me much.

163. I know that you did Road School for a while, but...

164. Does he tell you anything?

165. Oh, yes. Holden loves to talk.

166. See? It's possible to talk about things together.

167. Where were you born?

168. Mm! Let me guess.

169. Certainly not New York.

170. You're more of a Midwestern kind of guy.

171. See?

172. Actually, I was born in Brooklyn.

173. I was. I don't know why you always think that's funny.

174. I'm sorry.

175. Sure. Go ahead and make fun of me.

176. Where was he until then?

177. He was in an orphanage for 13 months.

178. But we haven't been able to find out where he was before then.

179. How he got there or...

180. - Are you going to have kids? No.

181. At least not yet.

182. We tried several times, but then we decided to adopt.

183. I always thought it was such a beautiful way to help a child.

184. I never thought of it like that.

185. If I have to be completely honest, I did it for my own sake.

186. Can't it be both?

187. Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing it well enough

188. or if it would have been better for him to have gone to somebody else's home.

189. I think he's very lucky to have you.

190. I don't know.

191. How do you tell?

192. Sometimes I get up at night and watch him sleeping.

193. But I can't help but wonder who he was...

194. before we got him.

195. What did he see or hear?

196. Did anyone hold him when he cried?

197. He's beautiful.

198. I just wish I knew what went on inside that little head of his.

199. It's always the mother.

200. They all have a crazy, angry mother.

201. Or an absent father.

202. Benjamin only changed after his father took off.

203. - Maybe has nothing to do with the mother. - Aren't all fathers absent in some way?

204. I know my old man was never around.

205. Imagine how different Benjamin and Rose's lives might have been

206. - if their father never left. - Not sure it would've changed much.

207. - Your father really didn't speak to you? - No.

208. But you speak with Brian.

209. You want one more?

210. Uh-huh.

211. - You walk him through the crime scene? Yeah.

212. Okay. Has he seen all our notes on the evidence?

213. - Yeah, I showed him everything. And?

214. He is going to try Benjamin first.

215. Wait a minute. Say that again.

216. He's only gonna try Benjamin, not all three.

217. Mark, that's not right. - Is that Ocasek?

218. He's confident after he convicts Benjamin—

219. Obviously, there's something he doesn't understand.

220. Well, I tried to explain exactly like you said,

221. but he wasn't interested in talking.

222. - Okay, look, I'll call you back. - I'm sorry.

223. Shit, it's not your fault, Mark.

224. Let me talk to some folks here and get back to you.

225. - Okay. - What's happening?

226. The DA is going after Benjamin first,

227. which means he'll end up offering a plea deal

228. for Frank's and Rose's testimony.

229. Did Ocasek tell him about Frank's history of violence?

230. I'm sure he did.

231. Clearly, he's the most dangerous of the three.

232. We need to go talk to the DA, help him understand.

233. I have a deposition this afternoon.

234. - I can't do anything till tomorrow. - I'll go.

235. You better go with him.

236. It is acutely obvious that, in this instance,

237. the anger was triggered by stressors

238. that were focused on his fiancé in particular.

239. "Stressors"?

240. Dramatic life events. Things that pushed both their buttons.

241. Frank Janderman was happily married with a new baby on the way.

242. But Frank didn't want to be a father. He hated that.

243. - Is that a motive? - No. It's what we call a stressor.

244. So you think Frank did it?

245. Benjamin wouldn't have been able to on his own.

246. You're saying Benjamin was provoked by Frank?

247. Pushed. Yes.

248. Frank saw his chance and raped Beverly Jean.

249. - Situationally motivated sexual assaults— - Wait.

250. - "Situationally"? - As opposed to preferential, yes.

251. Well, look it. Here's my question.

252. Who killed her?

253. All three of them are responsible for her death.

254. - So they all mutilated the body? No, that was Benjamin.

255. Frank and Benjamin left her body at the dump, wrapped up.

256. But Benjamin came back a few days later. He couldn't let go.

257. Remember, he was under a lot of stress. He took the knife to her—

258. Let me stop you there, because... here's the problem.

259. How do I prove all this?

260. I'm just here to provide you with intelligent, accurate analysis.

261. If a jury can't understand your analysis, then it's no use to anybody, is it?

262. I agree. But it isn't my job to make the jury understand anything.

263. That's your job.

264. And we have all placed our trust in you.

265. How do we translate this so you can use it?

266. What you're saying is that both Benjamin and Frank killed her, right?

267. It's complicated, I know.

268. Benjamin knocked her out because he felt like he was rejected,

269. which is a stressor.

270. He tied her up and called his brother-in-law Frank

271. because he didn't know what to do.

272. So Frank comes over and takes advantage of the situation and rapes her.

273. Benjamin doesn't stop him because he wants to see her humiliated.

274. Now Frank knows that he's in trouble,

275. so he starts telling Benjamin what a slut she is.

276. And that is a big problem for Benjamin.

277. So they kill her.

278. Then they call Rose, have her come and help clean up.

279. And she sees the poor girl in the bathtub and realizes that she's still alive.

280. So they stab her again.

281. And then they move the body to the dump.

282. Okay.

283. Okay.

284. - That went well. - You think?

285. Sure, I mean... what don't you think he grasped?

286. Well, I mean, Holden, you know these people. I don't.

287. I think that he seemed very intent on blaming Benjamin,

288. and I'm not quite sure I got him over that.

289. Well, certainly at the end, he seemed very attentive.

290. I thought you laid it out clearly and concisely for him

291. that it was all three.

292. Well, if you're right, then we should be fine.

293. Yes, we should be.

294. - How's commuting? - What do you mean?

295. Having half of your life in Boston.

296. What?

297. Is the back and forth a strain?

298. I know that it was discombobulating for me, all the travel,

299. when we were straddling Road School.

300. Is small talk a way you deal with your anxiety?

301. - I suppose. - Hm.

302. Okay.

303. - Hey. - Hey.

304. Thought you were back tomorrow.

305. - Was. Plans changed. - Oh.

306. We talked about that.

307. Sorry, but I'm so glad you're home early.

308. Hi.

309. You look tired.

310. I mean, you look great, but also a little tired.

311. Thanks. I, uh... I'm okay.

312. If you want to go home, freshen up, I've got some things to finish here.

313. Oh, yeah. Okay.

314. You know, I actually wanted to talk something over with you.

315. It'd be great if we could do that tonight.

316. - What is it? - Oh.

317. You know, it's fine. It can wait.

318. No. No, come on.

319. I don't think he tried to understand.

320. He just wanted some buzzwords that he could parrot.

321. Intellectually, these people have reached their limits.

322. They will never understand the discourse on any deeper level,

323. nor will they ever become conversant in your vernacular.

324. I actually think they're quite intuitive.

325. I'm not talking about my colleagues.

326. Your colleagues?

327. - Are you an FBI agent? Don't be absurd.

328. But that is what I wanted to discuss.

329. I'm having a really hard time juggling my research and everything back here.

330. I warned you this would happen.

331. Well, I'm torn. And I'm not really delivering either place.

332. And I should be spending more time at Quantico.

333. I think that's a bad idea.

334. - But you know best. - Well, I'm not sure I do or...

335. It's why I wanted to talk it over.

336. I don't have to remind you. Your review is in three months.

337. If you aren't tenured, you'll leave the university.

338. Yeah, you needn't remind me.

339. It's no secret I find it difficult watching you waste your time down there.

340. Waste my time?

341. Do you think that I'm wasting my time?

342. - Come on, I don't wanna argue about this. - Neither do I.

343. Babe, focus on the thing that will make your career.

344. They've offered me a full-time position.

345. And?

346. You can't be serious.

347. Why would you say that?

348. I'm sure it's flattering, but honestly, you said it yourself,

349. these people have reached their intellectual limits.

350. No, I didn't say that.

351. Do they know you're lesbian?

352. - Of course not. - Exactly. You can't be yourself.

353. Are you really going to hide half of your life?

354. - I do that here. - What do you mean by that?

355. I can't tell any of your friends I work with the FBI

356. - because it could reflect badly on you. - Let's not.

357. I told Will and Gore I'd meet them for a glass of wine.

358. Please.

359. Come with me.

360. In society, everyone behaves in certain ways

361. in order to avoid embarrassment, either for ourselves or others.

362. The very idea of embarrassing oneself, or others,

363. by being oneself speaks to a deeper treachery.

364. Treachery!

365. Goffman saw a connection

366. between the kinds of acts or masks that people put on in their daily lives

367. and in theatrical performances.

368. In a social interaction, as in a theatrical performance,

369. there's an onstage area where individuals, or actors as the case may be,

370. appear before the audience.

371. But there must be a backstage,

372. a hidden, private area, where individuals can truly be themselves.

373. Of course, Annaliese, that's lovely, but you're missing the point.

374. - Excuse me. - [man 2] There's no embarrassment

375. for anyone in their hidden and private places.

376. It's not backstage where the damage is done.

377. Must we indulge in your melodrama?

378. What the fuck happened, Mark?

379. - You guys might be too late. - Is he in there?

380. - Yeah. - Let's go talk to him.

381. I know you came a long way...

382. Who doesn't like a four-hour drive in winter?

383. It's done. It ain't over

384. till the fat lady sings.

385. You offered him a plea bargain?

386. He just pled guilty to third-degree murder.

387. And he is now facing five to 20 years in a state psychiatric hospital.

388. - You've misunderstood. - Look. You did a great job.

389. And you almost got it right.

390. But it was never Frank, it was all Benjamin.

391. You know that's not true.

392. You had an expert in psychopathy and sexual homicide

393. from Boston University make a recommendation

394. that Frank motivated Benjamin to commit murder and—

395. She said he pushed his buttons.

396. [DA] And Benjamin came back and disfigured the body.

397. Well, guess what?

398. Frank confirmed all that.

399. But Dr. Carr got one thing wrong. Frank didn't rape her. Benjamin did.

400. The victim was already dead when Frank got there.

401. - Hold on. - She said Benjamin was jealous,

402. sexually frustrated, humiliated.

403. That's a motive.

404. - You got it all wrong. - I have the report here.

405. I've read the report. It points in the opposite direction.

406. Benjamin was impotent because of the stressors.

407. He was frustrated and humiliated. It was impossible for him to rape the victim.

408. I understand the righteousness of your cause,

409. but this is an exceptionally difficult and disturbing case.

410. There's very little forensic evidence. Almost all the evidence is circumstantial.

411. You classify our evidence as circumstantial?

412. Frank told us where to find the victim's breasts.

413. - Benjamin had kept them. So?

414. So, I got a guy who's jealous, sexually frustrated,

415. and we find the victim's breasts buried in his backyard.

416. Then I got a guy who's willing to tell us what happened.

417. There's a huge difference between killing a woman

418. and mutilating her body after she is dead.

419. A plea bargain is the only antidote against a failed prosecution.

420. You're letting Frank off.

421. He shouldn't just go to a mental institution for five years.

422. - He should be put away for life. - [DA] Five to 20 years.

423. And the defense is arguing the state had a duty of care

424. the first time Frank was in the hospital.

425. The onus is on the state to make him better.

426. He's never going to get better.

427. I have to make a phone call.

428. He's letting the wrong guy off with a lighter sentence.

429. When Wendy explained it to him, he seemed to understand.

430. I think he wasn't sure he could convince a jury.

431. - This way it's airtight. - He didn't try.

432. No hard feelings, okay?

433. I know the outcome wasn't what you wanted.

434. All three behind bars, and Benjamin'll fry for what he did.

435. Not all bad. You know what we're up against.

436. We have to consider the attention span of a prospective jury pool.

437. Need to keep them in mind.

438. Our objective is the lowest cost for the highest quality of justice.

439. You know this is bullshit.

440. Let me get you a steak sandwich.

441. Outside of KC, it's the best I've come across.

442. - No, thanks. - I've lost my appetite.

443. We need to hit the road.

444. Okay. Thank you for everything.

445. What difference does any of this make

446. if we can't communicate it to the people who matter?

447. I don't know.

448. It's all about process now.

449. Refining our methodology, making sure we're airtight and idiot-proof.

450. So we need more subjects.

451. - Ones just like Kemper, please. - Those were the days.

452. You know, you're going to see people present with similar pathologies,

453. but the way a person kills

454. is as individual and distinct as the way they have sex.

455. And just as complicated.

456. Jerome Brudos. King of souvenirs.

457. - Brudos? The shoe guy? Who's he?

458. Six, seven years ago. Sometimes he wore women's dresses.

459. He amputated the breasts of his first and third victims.

460. - Just like Benjamin. - It's themed. Wendy loves a pattern.

461. It's all about finding patterns.

462. Except he went a little further than Benjamin.

463. He plaster cast the breasts and made them into bronze paperweights.

464. He's creative.

465. His second victim, he amputated a foot which he stored in his freezer.

466. He had a collection of hundreds of women's shoes

467. which he used for masturbation.

468. - I think we can learn a lot from this guy. - I'm in.

469. This time we use the questionnaire.

470. Did we settle on that?

471. We have to be able to distinguish the fractal similarities and differences

472. so that we can codify it clearly.

473. Otherwise, we're just wasting our time.

474. Sure, but sometimes you got to go with your gut.

475. And when you first walk in, you can trust your instinct.

476. But once you get your subject talking,

477. we need the protocols so we can build a consistent data set.

478. - Makes sense. - What else do we know about Brudos?

479. As a teenager, he started grabbing lingerie from clotheslines.

480. Soon he was breaking into homes,

481. stealing women's underwear, shoes, and dresses.

482. And then eventually, he escalated to kidnapping and murder.

483. But he was married with two children by then.

484. This file is as thick as an encyclopedia.

485. You think we're gonna get something that isn't in here?

486. Absolutely.

487. In all that paperwork, there's not a single word

488. that illuminates what he was thinking or feeling,

489. before, during, or after the crimes.

490. There's nothing on his operation principles, his logic.

491. - Logic? His internal logic, yes.

492. Which, hopefully, one day we'll be able to decipher.

493. So, we all agreed. Brudos is next.

494. Yes.

495. Do you mind if I take that room?

496. - For what? - For my office.

497. Oh, sure, fine. Go ahead.

498. Do you need help? - No.

499. I actually enjoy this part, organizing my space.

500. She's staying.

501. Carver was right.

502. You really are Sherlock Holmes.

503. It's one generous bedroom and a newly refurbished kitchenette.

504. The building's very quiet.

505. Mostly professionals and mostly travelers.

506. Flight attendants, a few pilots. We get the odd lecturer.

507. Are you married?

508. No.

509. Were you thinking month-to-month?

510. To begin with.

511. - Are they all furnished? - Yes.

512. And that's definitely part of the complex's allure.

513. Just pick up your keys and off you go.

514. We do have some singles activities, if you're up for that sort of thing.

515. And there's access to quite a good tennis pro.

516. I'm going to be working long hours.

517. What made you choose this part of Virginia, if you don't mind my asking?

518. - Quantico. - Oh!

519. Are you with the Bureau?

520. I guess... uh, mainly research.

521. Oh. Very exciting.