Mindhunter 1x10

1. Got another one.

2. "Wish you were here."

3. "Dear Holden, it's been some time since we've seen each other,

4. and while the memory of your voice has faded, what we discussed has not.

5. I've had more insights into my behavior,

6. which I'd like to share with you at your earliest convenience.

7. Warmest regards, Ed Kemper."

8. Ed Kemper writes you?

9. If OPR decides to pay a site visit...

10. - Bill Tench. - Bill, Detective Chambers.

11. - Hey, Gordon, how's it going down there? - You're not gonna be happy.

12. Okay.

13. I had Devier come in, suggested a polygraph.

14. I wanted to see his reaction, and he agreed to it.

15. - You polygraphed him? - That's right.

16. And he passed.

17. - Inconclusive. Shit.

18. We don't get that result too often.

19. Because it only occurs six percent of the time.

20. It usually has to do with how the questions are worded.

21. - Lab found Lisa's blood on the rock. - Inconclusive.

22. Devier, he'd cleaned the car.

23. And so, no physical evidence. - That's right.

24. Think that's bad, the inconclusive?

25. Definitely won't put him away with it. Worst case scenario, he's exonerated.

26. - Can you hold a moment? - Sure.

27. - You get that? - They've got nothing on him?

28. He was happy to take the polygraph.

29. Now he'll be cockier than ever.

30. - See if he'll talk to us. There's no way.

31. Ask him.

32. How convinced are we that he's guilty? What percentage convinced?

33. - Hundred percent. - I'm about 70.

34. It is no accident that this tree trimmer was accused of rape in another county.

35. He'd have to be Mirandized.

36. It's a death penalty state. There's nothing in it for him.

37. He is a narcissist. Might just do it to prove that he can.

38. Have Chambers extend an invitation.

39. - Hey, Gordon? - Yeah.

40. Here's an idea.

41. Can you bring in Devier later?

42. Sure. Tonight?

43. 6:00, 7:00 p.m. Casual, a little evening chat.

44. Assure him he's not under arrest, but it's important,

45. the FBI wants to talk to him.

46. We're doing this after-hours to be more casual?

47. Make it seem that way. He'll be tired, he'll let down his guard.

48. Then he'll realize we're working overtime. We mean business.

49. Once he gets to the station, let him wait before we talk to him.

50. Okay. - At least an hour.

51. That's supposed to...

52. You ever wait for test results in a doctor's office?

53. We need to create in him a visceral memory.

54. We need to elicit a physiological response.

55. - We need a shoe. - A shoe?

56. Ah.

57. Something we used to crack another sociopath.

58. We need to find the equivalent for Devier.

59. - Show me everything you got on Devier. - Brass.

60. - This is it? That's it.

61. Okay, I need a lot more. Several of these folders, make them thick.

62. Go to the copier. Use blank pages if you need to.

63. I want it to look like Manhattan Yellow Pages.

64. - Evidence room? This way.

65. What have we here?

66. This is great. This is perfect. Where's her baton? Her twirling baton?

67. - She didn't have that on her. - Okay.

68. Take all of this to the interview room.

69. Yes, sir.

70. You have anything from where the body was found?

71. Just on that shelf, the one below.

72. Well, all right.

73. - Is there a five and dime around here? - Right off the square.

74. Get a baton, fine if it's cheap. Remove the price tag.

75. - Drag it around in the dirt. - Okay.

76. I don't want him to see evidence. I want him to see a sweet little girl.

77. Hurry.

78. Listen, when we get Devier in here,

79. I'm gonna ask him questions that may make you uncomfortable.

80. Acing the polygraph just lowered his blood pressure, so sit tight, okay?

81. Sure.

82. All this an FBI thing?

83. It's, uh... his thing.

84. We have Devier coming across the street.

85. Devier.

86. Come right through here.

87. So I'm going to have you wait down the hall here.

88. Wait while the agents come in. Bring back smokes or anything?

89. Yeah, that'd be great. - All right.

90. Don't know how much more information I can provide,

91. but I'll help any way I can.

92. They just want to talk to you. Through here.

93. He's in there.

94. Gene, hello. I'm Special Agent Holden Ford.

95. - Hi. - Special Agent Bill Tench.

96. - Hey. - Detective Chambers, you guys have met.

97. Thanks for doing this. You've been Mirandized, right?

98. - Again. Great.

99. We're gonna do this as quickly as possible.

100. I'm sure you've got better things to do tonight.

101. Army life wasn't for me. I'll admit that.

102. Too regimented. Couldn't stand them barking orders at me all the time.

103. - I like things more laid back, you know.

104. Working outdoors, the fresh air.

105. John, my boss, he was great about hiring me,

106. even with the discharge.

107. It seemed like a perfect fit. Out in the weather, working with my hands.

108. Military's not for everyone.

109. You can't know that before you go in.

110. You went voluntarily?

111. 'Nam was pretty much over, figured it'd be low-key.

112. Looks like you've married and divorced twice.

113. What can I say? I'm popular with the ladies.

114. - Or unpopular. - Depending on how you look at it.

115. I made mistakes.

116. Married my first girl when we were 16.

117. Just after you dropped out of high school?

118. Yeah. - Why'd you drop out?

119. Trouble sitting still.

120. School made me a little nuts, too.

121. Wow, so you married your first girl.

122. - Why'd you split up? - We were fighting all the time.

123. - What about your second wife? Same story.

124. But you're living again with your first ex-wife?

125. Yeah. I know. I know. It's kind of—

126. Same story? Still fighting?

127. Sometimes. - But she's not 16 anymore.

128. Nope. Oh, no.

129. The bloom of youth has faded.

130. You all got a lot of information on me.

131. The FBI is thorough.

132. Yeah, well, what am I, some kind of gangster?

133. Bureaucracy.

134. Well, listen, I got to mosey out of here soon, so if we could...

135. Of course. Of course.

136. Let's get down to business.

137. You're really important to us, Gene.

138. You were on Lisa's street the week before she disappeared.

139. You had a bird's-eye view of the entire place.

140. Yeah, but I mean, I didn't see nothing.

141. You know, I was focused on them trees. You got to be.

142. - Especially when you're working the saw. - Understood, but...

143. we're kind of grasping at straws here.

144. You're the closest thing we have to an eyewitness.

145. Well, I took your polygraph. I'm an open book.

146. Thank you.

147. So...

148. you must have seen Lisa coming and going that week.

149. Not really.

150. - Maybe once or twice. - Well...

151. If she wore that outfit, couldn't have missed her.

152. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I guess I saw her in that a couple of times.

153. Feathered hat, silver baton?

154. Uh... yeah.

155. What time she catch the school bus in the morning?

156. Well, let's see, I'd get there about 7:00,

157. she'd come out maybe half hour later.

158. And what time did the bus drop her back off?

159. Oh, I can't say.

160. Um, I mean, maybe 3:30, 4:00.

161. Ever see her talk to anyone when she got off the bus?

162. No, sir.

163. Anyone on her street who looked like he didn't belong there?

164. Not that I can recall, but, I mean...

165. I wasn't even working the week that she disappeared.

166. Right.

167. Oh, hold on, it almost ended.

168. That's what she had on her that day.

169. Heartbreaking.

170. - By all accounts, she was a sweet kid. - Yeah, she seemed real friendly.

171. You noticed that?

172. You know, just saw her playing in the yard with her dog, you know.

173. I mean, I guess you could say she was—

174. - Precocious? Right.

175. Did you ever talk to her?

176. - No. - She ever talk to you?

177. - Waved a time or two. Hmm.

178. Was she a cheerleader? - Majorette.

179. Those girls on the dance team are something else.

180. I always had the hots for them.

181. I mean...

182. she looks pretty tasty in that outfit, doesn't she?

183. - Sure. - It's very revealing.

184. Yeah, I guess.

185. Come on.

186. You guys don't think so?

187. I mean...

188. Definitely looks older than 12. - See, that's what I thought.

189. Okay. Thank you. So it's not just me?

190. Well, these girls these days, they're developing so early.

191. Sure are.

192. Of course, Lisa was in junior high.

193. Whoever picked her up might not have known that.

194. I mean, I'm sitting here wracking my brain,

195. trying to remember if I saw someone, but—

196. We believe he thought she was older.

197. She was friendly, probably came up to him.

198. He thought if they got together, it'd be consensual.

199. Well, 14 is the age of consent.

200. Is that right?

201. Yeah.

202. Wow.

203. I guess Georgia's kind of forward-thinking in that respect.

204. I mean, by the time a woman has hair on her pussy,

205. you'd think she'd be able to decide who gets a piece of it.

206. I mean, yeah, man. I never thought about it like that before,

207. - but, yeah. But it's true.

208. - Could make a case. Some women shave down there.

209. - You ever see that? - No.

210. They look so young.

211. - Have you seen it? No, but heard tell.

212. - I tried to get my girlfriend to do it. - You think she would?

213. - She's considering. What did you even say to her?

214. I told her, "Honey, this turns me on."

215. - Just direct like that? - Yeah, I don't know if she's gonna do it.

216. Women have their own minds these days, but it sure would be hot,

217. don't you think?

218. Sure.

219. You got to make it with that young pussy before it turns into Mom.

220. She's chatting him up,

221. maybe he's thinking she looks old enough to wear this outfit,

222. twirl a baton, march in the band, probably got some hair on her, but not too much.

223. Let's take a break.

224. - You need a break, Gene? Um...

225. - No, I'm okay. - Well, I need a break.

226. I am gravely concerned with this line of questioning.

227. I told you, you need to relax.

228. If it came out in court we suggested the girl flirted with him—

229. - How would it come out? - He turned off the tape.

230. Yeah, I saw that.

231. I don't know about that, either.

232. You agree with this?

233. In theory. Not so much in practice.

234. I will take full responsibility for what happens in there.

235. Most people would call it a cherry picker,

236. but the industry term would be a boom lift or a boom truck.

237. What's the highest you've been? - About 50 feet.

238. - In a tree? - That's right.

239. - But you're in a harness, right? - Well, of course, at that height.

240. But sometimes you got to get out to get them faraway limbs.

241. - Don't look down, huh? - No, that don't bother me no more.

242. You saw Lisa waving to you a couple of times.

243. Must not have been too far up to see that.

244. No, I'm not too sure.

245. - She ever talk to you? - No.

246. But I already told you that.

247. Hmm. Okay.

248. - Why?

249. We have one person, said she saw the two of you talking.

250. - Well, I thought I was your star witness. Only one watching the street.

251. Listen, you're a good-looking guy.

252. Did she just come up to you, being friendly?

253. She sees you up there every day, sweating away in the hot sun.

254. Could she have maybe offered you a soda?

255. She could've come up and talked to me.

256. Can you remember?

257. - I guess. - It's coming back to you.

258. Just that... she could've talked to me.

259. What did she say?

260. - I don't know. You don't?

261. No. - No idea at all?

262. You weren't listening?

263. I can't recall.

264. She ask you about your work, your day, where you live?

265. Something like that.

266. Small talk.

267. Sure.

268. I bet she thought you were a handsome cuss.

269. I don't know.

270. You think she was pretty?

271. We've already established she looked at least 14.

272. - I guess I thought so. You thought what?

273. - That she was cute. - She was precocious, too.

274. Didn't mind that you were older.

275. She probably kind of liked it.

276. Yeah. I kind of thought she was into me.

277. When your job ended and you weren't on that street, you still think about her?

278. - No. You ever go back by the house,

279. see if she wanted to talk some more?

280. I mean, she started things, right?

281. Kind of.

282. What about this jacket?

283. You ever see her wear this?

284. Here, take a closer look.

285. When you picked her up from the bus, was she wearing this jacket?

286. There was a lot of blood at the crime scene.

287. We haven't revealed too many details, but Lisa's skull was crushed.

288. That blood goes everywhere.

289. In crimes involving blunt force trauma, it's almost impossible for the attacker

290. to avoid getting his victim's blood on him.

291. The scalp has thousands of capillaries.

292. Blood sprays everywhere, like a fine mist.

293. It gets in your hair, up your nose.

294. I'd be amazed if you didn't get any on you.

295. - He's washed. What's under your fingernails?

296. It's just dirt, Bill. - We should take a sample.

297. - He scrubbed his nails by now. - Is it in your ears?

298. I bet. When was the last time you cleaned your ears?

299. You want to take a sample? Can we do that?

300. Yeah. I can arrange that.

301. You've gone quiet.

302. When we accuse somebody of murder,

303. if they haven't done it, they won't shut up.

304. They protest their innocence.

305. Oh, God, yeah. "How dare you? Fuck you. I know my rights."

306. A guilty guy will clam up, start listening intently,

307. which is what you're doing.

308. If a guilty guy yells to make you think he's innocent,

309. - you can always tell the difference. - Sure can.

310. Why do you keep looking at that rock?

311. An innocent man would have to guess its significance.

312. It's what was used to kill Lisa, wasn't it?

313. When things got out of hand.

314. You didn't mean to, right?

315. She came up to you, she seemed friendly, and then everything went sideways.

316. The question for us isn't "Did you do it?" We know that you did it.

317. The question for us is...

318. "Why?"

319. We think we know why, and we understand.

320. All you have to do is tell us if we're right.

321. Can you teach this stuff? - We should.

322. Bill, why are not we teaching profiling at the Academy?

323. - Because we're still figuring it out.

324. You like this bourbon? - Yeah.

325. Two more.

326. Now, what I can't get over is the rock.

327. He could not control his reaction.

328. - Everybody has a rock. What?

329. Something that makes them sweat.

330. Like, for example, my senior year of college.

331. I came home for Christmas, I'm sitting at the kitchen table with my dad,

332. and my mom brings over some eggnog.

333. And she hands me a glass and she says,

334. "Holden, have you had sexual relations with a woman?"

335. - Jesus, no. - Yeah.

336. And I say, "Uh, yeah, Mom, I have."

337. And she says, "What's her name?"

338. And I say, "Well, actually, Mom, there's been a few."

339. - Bottoms up.

340. And then...

341. Oh! And then she says, "Holden...

342. who's going to have you as a husband now?"

343. - I'm telling you,

344. if she asked me that again today,

345. the exact same thing would happen. I would completely fall apart.

346. She's your rock.

347. Let's be clear.

348. All he did was put the killer's murder weapon in front of him.

349. Bill, come on.

350. We posited that the killer might feel guilty.

351. And then, I just...

352. created a situation where the guilt completely overwhelmed him.

353. It wasn't guilt.

354. It was the pucker of "Oh, shit, I'm going to the electric chair."

355. - How'd you come up with this stuff?

356. By interviewing Richard Speck, and Jerry Brudos, and Ed Kemper.

357. - You talked to them firsthand? - Uh-huh.

358. And we've got Manson and Berkowitz on the wish list.

359. No shit.

360. - Unbelievable. What are they like?

361. Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn here when I say...

362. they are fucked up.

363. - Amen.

364. So what did you say to him?

365. I got him talking about how hot young girls are,

366. how they look older than their age.

367. - Ugh. - But it was the net effect.

368. I laid out everything she had on her,

369. a portrait of the last day in the life of a 12-year-old girl.

370. So you staged it. Like a director.

371. I guess.

372. Only he didn't know he was playing a role in your drama.

373. That is what made it a nail-biter.

374. No one could have scripted the reveal of the rock.

375. He completely freaked.

376. You could suddenly smell BO in the room.

377. - Pavlovian. - Guilt.

378. But you were convinced he was guilty before you went in.

379. Well, it was pretty obvious.

380. Yes, but presupposed.

381. Correctly presupposed.

382. Is it a fair experiment if you're working backward from a conclusion?

383. If your theory is proven right.

384. Holden, you drove him to an emotional response.

385. I helped put a child murderer behind bars.

386. Like Perry Mason?

387. - That's right. - Only Perry Mason never got off on it.

388. - Please stop analyzing me. - I'm not analyzing you.

389. You run this commentary on everything I do.

390. I was talking about your work. That's how we communicate, right?

391. You talk about your job, I give my opinion.

392. Maybe I don't always want your opinion.

393. - When I'm not in agreement with you. - Could you just be my girlfriend?

394. Could you just listen?

395. You mean shut up and adore you?

396. Well, you could try it. Once.

397. Making furniture from human remains

398. qualifies as organized.

399. We're famous.

400. This is apparently the talk of the Atlanta office.

401. "Darrell Gene Devier cracks under the questioning

402. of a new type of FBI agent."

403. Is that supposed to be us? - Who the fuck do you think?

404. Who's named?

405. Read the part about, uh...

406. "Behavioral Science's bright-eyed boy who's friends with Ed Kemper."

407. Who talked to a reporter?

408. Probably your baby-faced drinking buddy.

409. That was in confidence to a member of law enforcement.

410. - While you were drunk. - Celebrating.

411. "Using evidence from the crime scene,

412. he managed to break through Devier's psychological barriers"?

413. This reads a lot like coercion.

414. Worse, it sounds like horseshit.

415. Devier was in that interrogation room

416. because trees were trimmed on the victim's street.

417. - Good old-fashioned detective work. That got him in the room.

418. We got him to confess.

419. - You cannot be proud of this. - There's nothing egregious here.

420. - Exposure could be good. No.

421. Can we all agree we are not ready for Good Morning America?

422. I did not give an interview.

423. Even if we were accurately represented,

424. people should not be reading about us over breakfast.

425. Why not?

426. Just because.

427. Bill...

428. is it possible that you're upset because the article doesn't mention you?

429. Hi, Susan. It's Dr. Wendy Carr. I need to book a flight tomorrow.

430. I don't know what to do short of putting a muzzle on him.

431. Please don't go back to Boston.

432. Atlanta. Out of Dulles.

433. - The same day if possible. - Why are you going to Atlanta?

434. - I'm gonna talk to the Floyd County DA. - About what?

435. It's in the article, they're prosecuting a capital case.

436. - So? - So we can't be seen to be party to that.

437. I'm sorry. Yes, I am. Can you give me that number again?

438. What? That's none of our concern.

439. It's mine.

440. - He slaughtered a 12-year-old girl. - I know what he did.

441. Oh, uh, window or aisle, both are fine.

442. - Georgia's a death penalty state. - I think I might need a car, too.

443. What are you going to say to them?

444. We're four interviews in. No one is gonna talk to us

445. if they think we're sending people to the electric chair.

446. No one in law enforcement will talk to us if they think we're squeamish

447. about executing rapists and murderers.

448. Oh, that sounds lovely. A convertible or a T-top.

449. You cannot go representing the FBI.

450. I don't intend to.

451. They won't understand how you're connected to this case.

452. If you don't see how this situation compromises us, I don't know what to say.

453. I'm sorry. I'm— I'm so distracted.

454. Can you give me that number one more time?

455. Go with her.

456. You got us into this.

457. Shut the door.

458. I got it this time. Thank you.

459. Follow my lead. I'm used to talking to law enforcement.

460. District Attorney Mayweather, thank you for meeting with us on such short notice.

461. Oh, Esther, please. I am delighted to meet the man who delivered me Gene Devier.

462. My pleasure.

463. Professor Carr's a consultant at the FBI

464. and she has been instrumental in developing a program—

465. I'm sorry. I have as long as it takes to finish this sandwich.

466. We have been interviewing extremely violent offenders. The worst of the worst.

467. This involves establishing an element of trust

468. so that they offer information to us voluntarily.

469. We try to be objective because what they have to say is valuable.

470. But if they see that our techniques are being used to eradicate them, then—

471. Now how would your techniques be used for that?

472. Agent Ford assembled a psychological sketch of Mr. Devier, based on research,

473. which was used to secure a confession.

474. So if he's convicted and executed, then—

475. Honey, we don't kill criminals.

476. They kill themselves.

477. What does that mean?

478. It's their behavior that puts them in that chair.

479. Actually, I think it's—

480. When I talk to a jury, I always ask, "Do you watch TV?"

481. Most of them do.

482. I say, "Who watches the cop shows?"

483. Right there you know whether you've got a smart jury or a stupid one.

484. So I say, "Forget TV,

485. 'cause it'll never show you the experience of the victim."

486. - No. - "You will never hear the cries

487. of a woman being raped on The Rockford Files.

488. You won't smell burning flesh from the cigarettes being put to her body

489. - on Hawaii Five-O." - I'm not arguing prosecution strategies.

490. - I'm simply— - And I'm not done talking.

491. My point is that when you go from an abstract idea of murder

492. to the visceral reality,

493. you can no longer be objective.

494. Only when you feel the pain of those victims and their loved ones

495. can you know the magnitude of the choice that killer made.

496. - And it's that choice that seals his fate. There's no reason to kill people

497. when we have the wherewithal to lock them up.

498. These people spend the rest of their lives in horrendous conditions,

499. which likely reflect the environments in which they were raised.

500. Maybe— I'm sorry. But maybe instead of debating the pros and cons of—

501. Yes, cut to the point.

502. Are you actually asking me to shoot lower than capital punishment

503. so it won't reflect poorly on the FBI?

504. Not the FBI, our work in Behavioral Science.

505. If it's compromised,

506. I'm afraid we won't be able to achieve our ultimate goal,

507. which is to hopefully prevent this type of crime from being committed.

508. I am asking you to consider life without the possibility of parole.

509. I'm an elected official.

510. Here in Georgia, death is the will of the people.

511. And if you don't want to be involved publicly,

512. then maybe you should keep yourselves out of the news.

513. What did you expect?

514. A reasonable conversation.

515. I don't know what I expected. I...

516. I've spent months of my life and...

517. I had hoped that we could complete our research

518. - before seeing it used to this end. - What difference would that make?

519. I wouldn't have to be in meetings like the one we had.

520. So you could walk away clean?

521. Come on, Wendy. You're smarter than that.

522. Evidently not.

523. There's no way around the death penalty in death penalty states.

524. Which doesn't mean what we're doing is wrong.

525. - Hi. - Hi.

526. It's so nice out.

527. How was your trip?

528. Hot. Sticky. Miserable.

529. Georgia.

530. - Have you eaten? - No.

531. Great. You want to get something?

532. It's getting late, we should get going.

533. No, I don't think so.

534. Okay.

535. Are you still mad?

536. Are you...

537. What exactly are you?

538. Must I be something?

539. These past couple days, I keep thinking about when we met.

540. You were so sweet.

541. And curious.

542. I'm still...

543. curious.

544. No.

545. You're different.

546. I am the exact same person that you reeled in with that jumpsuit.

547. I don't think that's true.

548. But I'm not the same either.

549. Where you going with this?

550. Just... thinking, talking.

551. Thinking about...?

552. - I don't know. - You don't know?

553. I don't know.

554. Jesus, Debbie. Come on.

555. You're so good at reading people...

556. you tell me.

557. Okay.

558. Well...

559. when I first got here, you didn't get up to greet me.

560. And you didn't invite me inside, but you won't come to dinner with me.

561. You've been sitting with your arms crossed,

562. which I know, from you, is a bad sign.

563. You've been in a shitty mood the last ten times we've been together,

564. and you're always starting arguments,

565. and you've been assessing me in a very negative light.

566. And in spite of your recent confusion about your degree,

567. you stay up late every night doing homework,

568. leaving me to go to bed alone.

569. When I got here, you offered a sip of your wine,

570. which could be construed as welcoming,

571. but even though you knew I was coming from the airport,

572. you didn't bring an extra glass,

573. and half the bottle is gone.

574. Which means you're trying to take the edge off so that you can...

575. break up with me?

576. Is that what I'm doing?

577. Let's not drag this out. I'll pick up my stuff next week.

578. I'll let you know when, in case you don't want to be here.

579. Yes, ma'am.

580. No, we're trying. It's slow.

581. - Yes, indeed. - You take this?

582. California Medical Facility, Vacaville. How may I help you?

583. I got a message to call a Dr... Bruxton.

584. - One moment, please. - Did you see who put this here?

585. I just got in myself.

586. [man 2] ICU.

587. Hello, I'm trying to reach a Dr. Bruxton.

588. I believe Dr. Bruxton is in surgery.

589. Well... I have a message to return his—

590. One moment.

591. Dr. Bruxton isn't available right now.

592. I'm with the FBI, my name is Holden Ford.

593. Oh, yes, he is expecting your call.

594. Can you tell me what this is about?

595. Uh, you're listed as medical proxy to one of our patients.

596. I'm sorry, there must be some kind of mistake.

597. I don't think so. Edmund Kemper specifically named you as his proxy.

598. At this point, though, he is out of danger.

599. Danger?

600. Mr. Kemper tried to take his own life last night.

601. - Are you sure? - Yes, sir.

602. That's impossible. I can't think that—

603. Mr. Kemper came out of surgery at 4:30 a.m.

604. He's doing well, he's in recovery.

605. - Hello? - You need anything from me?

606. - The doctor will call if we need anything. - Okay.

607. It seems the Office of Professional Responsibility

608. has found continuing evidence for their investigation into our unit.

609. "Continuing evidence"?

610. They've got the tape.

611. - How the hell'd they get that? - I have no idea.

612. But you three have been called to meet with them.

613. And since someone has taken the high road for us,

614. I recommend we all go forward with total transparency.

615. Is this you?

616. Fuck you, Bill.

617. Please state your name.

618. Special Agent Holden Ford.

619. In what capacity do you serve the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

620. I work in the Behavioral Science Unit.

621. You and Special Agent William Tench

622. recently interviewed an inmate named Richard Speck?

623. - That's right. - Did you record the interview?

624. - Yes. - Which of you recorded the interview?

625. I did.

626. You and Agent Tench interviewed several inmates over the past few months.

627. - Did you record those, too? - Yes.

628. - Who did the recording? - I did.

629. For what purpose?

630. Archival purposes, documentation.

631. - Is this trying, Agent Ford? - I'm sorry?

632. Do you find this process trying?

633. I find it unnecessary.

634. What did you do with the recording when you returned to Quantico?

635. I gave it to Agent Smith to transcribe it.

636. - Did he transcribe it? - Yes.

637. - And did you look it over? - Yes.

638. Did you then decide it should be redacted?

639. Yes.

640. Why did you decide that?

641. I felt there was a section that might be deemed sensitive by other parties.

642. "Other parties" meaning whom?

643. Other people at the FBI.

644. And people at the LEAA, which provides our funding.

645. What section was this?

646. The section where I asked Speck why he took

647. "eight ripe cunts out of this world."

648. You suddenly thought that might not go over well.

649. That's right.

650. - Did anyone influence your decision? - No.

651. Your partner, Agent Tench. Did he influence your decision?

652. I made the decision on my own.

653. What happened once you decided this section was too sensitive

654. to appear in the transcript?

655. I asked Agent Smith to take it out.

656. - Are you Agent Smith's supervisor? - No.

657. Who knew about the redaction at this point?

658. I knew, Agent Smith, and Agent Tench.

659. When the three of you met with us to discuss Speck's complaint,

660. whose decision was it to bring us only the redacted transcript?

661. It was my decision.

662. - An unspoken agreement? Yes.

663. Did you ask Agent Smith to lie about erasing the tape?

664. - Not in so many words. - What does that mean?

665. I looked at him.

666. I asked him to lie with my eyes.

667. Did the redaction become known to other people in the Behavioral Science Unit?

668. Is this amusing, Agent Ford? - It might be, if it weren't so feeble.

669. I beg your pardon?

670. You think I don't know what you're doing with this principal's office bullshit?

671. This is what I do with violent offenders, only much better.

672. Agent Ford, you stand accused of lying to the FBI.

673. Do you realize how serious that is?

674. You used your badge to gain access to the California Medical Facility

675. without any official approval.

676. To interview our first subject, Kemper, whose feedback launched our program.

677. We're not concerned with what you consider your achievements.

678. We're concerned with your methods.

679. The language used with Richard Speck in the unredacted interview

680. reflects extremely poorly on the Bureau.

681. How about calling him a shit stain?

682. - You see what I mean. - Agent, listen to what we're telling you.

683. Flashing your badge is one thing, suppression of evidence is serious.

684. You're developing a pattern of behavior that will not sustain you.

685. I just got back from Georgia,

686. where my behavior led to the arrest and confession

687. of a man who raped and murdered a 12-year-old girl.

688. Surely my partner told you about that.

689. Your partner expressed reservations about the way you handle yourself.

690. You're playing us off each other.

691. He substantiates our concerns about your comportment as a federal agent.

692. We have that on tape.

693. Fuck this.

694. If you leave, I can't help you.

695. I have to write a report on this. It will go down on your permanent record.

696. You're making a terrible mistake.

697. The only mistake I made was ever doubting myself.

698. What'd you tell them, Bill?

699. I told them the truth.

700. Ladies and gentlemen, we will be landing shortly.

701. Sign here.

702. Thank you.

703. Edmund Kemper?

704. Thank you.

705. You came.

706. You made it hard not to.

707. Well, I tried less dramatic methods.

708. - Did you get my cards? - Yes.

709. Maybe it's not surprising you respond to showmanship.

710. Why do you want to see me, Ed?

711. I read an article about you.

712. About us, I should say.

713. The Atlanta Constitution?

714. The story was picked up by the AP.

715. - Oh. - You said we were friends.

716. - Yes. - Are we friends, Holden?

717. In the context of our work together, sure.

718. Our work together.

719. That's a nice way of putting it. I'd categorize it the same way.

720. And yet, our work is unfinished.

721. - Okay. - As I indicated in my letters.

722. You have more...

723. insights?

724. I do.

725. Well, I'm not going to trot them out like some kind of show pony,

726. especially when you've been talking about me in my absence,

727. using what I tell you to legitimize yourself.

728. That story was not...

729. I... had had a bit to drink.

730. What's this behavioral profiling you're touting?

731. Well...

732. it's a way to determine a criminal's psychology

733. based on crime scenes and personal characteristics.

734. I love that.

735. What's my psychology?

736. I can't really tell you that.

737. You can't or you won't?

738. - It's shoptalk, Ed. - My favorite.

739. We're at an early point in the research.

740. Not so early that you can't babble about it in the press.

741. And you pretty much admit that I started you down this path.

742. So... I believe you owe me an explanation, Holden.

743. You're what we'd call an organized killer.

744. Mm-hmm.

745. Because of the extreme planning that went into your crimes.

746. You practiced picking up women several times

747. before selecting your first victim.

748. You used your own vehicle

749. both in the kidnapping and disposing of the bodies.

750. You followed your crimes in the media,

751. which shows evidence of continued fantasy.

752. Mm-hmm.

753. That's the gist.

754. You think you can boil me down to a single adjective?

755. Of course not. It's merely a way to sort characteristics.

756. - You're an expert now. - No.

757. - Sounds like it. - I am not an expert.

758. But you want to be, don't you?

759. Yes.

760. Human blood is very hot.

761. On a cold, humid morning you can see it steam.

762. What are you doing, Ed?

763. Someone left a ballpoint pen on my court file.

764. I used the metal casing.

765. Is this what you wanted to see?

766. Why would I want to see that?

767. Take a closer look.

768. That's okay. Really.

769. You know, women were initially indifferent to me.

770. They weren't interested in sharing.

771. My whole life, no one wanted to interact with me.

772. Not even our cats, when I was a kid.

773. The only way I could have those girls was to kill them, and it worked.

774. They became my spirit wives. They're still with me.

775. Funny thing in the ICU, there's no system to alert the guards.

776. It's short-sighted, seeing what kind of people come through.

777. I could kill you now, pretty easily.

778. Do some interesting things before anyone showed up.

779. Then you'd be with me in spirit.

780. I invited you many times to visit,

781. but even with this, I never thought you'd actually come.

782. Why are you here, Holden?

783. I don't know.

784. Well, now...

785. that is the truth.

786. - Are you all right? - I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

787. - Did you take anything? - I don't know.

788. - Do you have any allergies? - I don't know.

789. I'm dying.

790. You're not dying. You're in a hospital.

791. I'm trying to warn you,

792. your attitude is gonna bite you in the ass.

793. You're developing a pattern of behavior that will not sustain you.

794. Not the gems you think you're mining.

795. [Ed] Are we friends, Holden?

796. Get a doctor here!

797. Who are you, the fucking thought police?

798. Torture, mutilation.

799. That is your world, and it has made you paranoid.