Dark Side of the Ring 2x4

1. In 1998, the World Wrestling Federation

2. enlisted 16 wrestlers in a radical experiment,

3. an unscripted, legitimate, prizefighting tournament.

4. Let 'em fight for real. Put on gloves. Let 'em go out.

5. Let's legitimately see who the toughest guy is.

6. The Brawl for All was probably

7. the worst idea in the professional wrestling business.

8. Wrestlers risked bodies and careers for a chance in the spotlight.

9. For some, it would all come crashing down in the Brawl for All.

10. A lot of people did get hurt. I was fucked up.

11. It was looking kinda sad.

12. The guys were gassed and blowing up,

13. and the crowd wasn't getting with it.

14. They got hurt. They got embarrassed.

15. And they got their careers shortened.

16. It was a train wreck. Come on, watch it! Just watch! You'll see.

17. By the late '90s, wrestling had become a global phenomenon.

18. Two companies competed for dominance in a TV ratings war,

19. as every Monday night, millions would tune in

20. to watch WWF or WCW. The battle was fought

21. through an escalation of bold and provocative new ideas.

22. Some still resonate today, others are long forgotten.

23. On this episode, we reveal the inside story

24. of what's been called "wrestling's worst idea ever."

25. This is Vince Russo here for The Brand.

26. We will talk about anything today, but professional wrestling.

27. Why? I hate wrestling, bro. I don't wanna talk about wrestling.

28. I'll talk about your mother, your grandmother.

29. My name is Vince Russo.

30. I was a head writer at WWF Magazine.

31. When I started writing the magazine, like '95,

32. '96, the product was horrible.

33. There were characters at the time that were so bad.

34. TL Hopper, The Goon, Mantaur...

35. What is this? It looks like a half-man, half-beast.

36. - Hey! - I'm like, "There's no way

37. he's getting his head in the ring," and sure enough, he cannot get in.

38. Times were changing, and the WWE kept going backwards.

39. With the internet, the secret was out of the bag.

40. People know this is fake. What they really want to know is,

41. what goes on behind the scenes? That's where everything was moving.

42. A lot of people say it doesn't matter

43. whether people know that it's rigged.

44. I don't like to use the word "fake." It does matter.

45. - Why don't you like "fake"? - There's nothing fake about it.

46. It may be predetermined, even choreographed.

47. It can be manipulated but there's nothing fake

48. about guys breaking their bodies down. I'm Jim Cornette.

49. I've been a promoter, a matchmaker, a manager, a trainer.

50. Everything in wrestling, for the last 40 years.

51. When I started working for the WWF, at the time,

52. Vince's inner circle, they were lifers.

53. They had been in the business forever,

54. and I felt that they were looking at the business from within.

55. I came as a fan.

56. Vince McMahon is somebody that is never gonna be fully understood.

57. He's a genius and a demon.

58. Vince McMahon has no other hobbies.

59. I doubt very seriously if he's gone

60. to the grocery store or been to a movie in over 40 years.

61. But Vince McMahon has always been the WWF.

62. I got a call from Vince's assistant, and she said,

63. "Vince wants to see you up here immediately."

64. So I literally think I am going up to his office to be fired.

65. Then, as I walk in his office, all the minions,

66. Bruce Prichard, Jim Ross, Pat Patterson,

67. Jim Cornette, and Vince has got the Raw Magazine in his hand.

68. And he slams it down on the table and he says,

69. "This is what our television show needs to be."

70. And, from that point on, I became involved in the writing of the show.

71. Vince Russo brings an outsider's perspective

72. to the secretive world of matchmaking.

73. He isn't afraid to push his vision of what wrestling could be.

74. I was like, "He's a goof. He's never been involved in wrestling.

75. He doesn't know how it works. We can try to explain it to him."

76. And within a few months, I realized he didn't want to learn.

77. He wanted to do wrestling the way he wanted to do it,

78. which was The Jerry Springer Show.

79. The Jerry Springer Show was the hottest thing on TV.

80. We literally would sit there and write Monday Night Raw

81. with the Springer Show playing in the background.

82. This approach would become the Attitude Era.

83. You had angles where guys were stealing each other's wives,

84. or one guy stole the other guy's dog and cooked it and fed it to him.

85. Back then, man, you had fraternities on college campuses gathering

86. every Monday night to watch Raw across the country.

87. So, number one, don't insult their intelligence.

88. They'll never watch again.

89. Two, you don't wanna mamby-pamby it.

90. That's what I was all about during the Attitude Era,

91. was what was gonna make a casual television viewer

92. watch this product if they weren't a wrestling fan.

93. To maintain their edge, WWF needs a constant stream of original ideas,

94. something audiences have never seen before.

95. You've gotta bring something to the old man. He's looking for an idea.

96. What's the next big thing? I don't know. How about this? Okay!

97. I'm Jim Ross. Got into wrestling in 1974,

98. so, my career has lasted for many generations,

99. as a broadcaster, as administrator, and executive vice president.

100. The idea came from Vince Russo. Get inside his head.

101. - Hell, I don't know. - The idea from the Brawl for All

102. was really simple, okay?

103. I was not a big fan of JBL, John Layfield.

104. I was from New York. John was, you know, from Texas.

105. I thought he had a big mouth, he was full of himself.

106. I thought he was a bully.

107. We were backstage at a show one day,

108. and John Layfield made the comment that,

109. "If this were real, I would beat everybody's ass in the locker room."

110. So, now I'm sitting there

111. and I'm saying, "You braggadocious bully bastard.

112. I know of at least 10 guys in the locker room that'll kick your ass."

113. I went to Vince McMahon

114. and proposed the idea of Brawl for All. He goes, "What do you mean?"

115. I said, "Vince, we're becoming more and more and more and more real.

116. Let 'em fight for real. Put on gloves. Let 'em go out.

117. Let 'em fight. Let's legitimately see who the toughest guy is!"

118. Vince gave the idea his blessing and we went on

119. with the Brawl for All.

120. The top stars have nothing to gain

121. risking their reputation in an unpredictable fight.

122. The challenge is to find 16 competitors with nothing to lose.

123. I got stabbed with the wine bottle. I was in a bar fight

124. and they broke a bottle and stuck it in. It went in and up.

125. Punctured a lung, lung collapsed,

126. shredded the diaphragm and lacerated the liver.

127. Everybody knows me as Bart Gunn.

128. Part of The Smoking Gunns.

129. Cowboy gimmick. We rode horses out. That was cool.

130. - Hey, there, I'm Bart. - And I'm Billy.

131. For whatever reason, everybody that comes in as a tag team,

132. eventually, they get split up.

133. When Billy and I were split up, my career kinda...

134. Don't want to say "fizzled." I guess you could say it fizzled out.

135. Just, I had a hard time adjusting to it though. It was a little difficult.

136. When I was first approached, it was Bruce.

137. He says, "Hey, we're gonna do this Brawl for All, a tough-man contest."

138. I go, "How will you do that?" I said, "Nah, don't want to."

139. I thought it was a stupid idea.

140. Then Kevin Kelly said, "This will be great for your career.

141. You're stuck at the middle, and you go through this,

142. you'll have a great run with Austin 'cause the winner gets

143. a run with Steve Austin." He was the hottest thing going.

144. Of course, you work with the top, top guy, you get top, top pay.

145. And then I thought about it,

146. and that's when I decided that I'd go ahead and do it.

147. The WWF approaches

148. their toughest, most under-utilized wrestlers,

149. with the lure of cash prizes and main event status.

150. There were a lot of tough guys in the locker room.

151. I think when I looked at this thing, I'm like...

152. Godfather, like, was probably the toughest guy.

153. Big 6'7", 6'8" guy. Worked in bars. Had been a bouncer.

154. My real name is Charles Wright.

155. I wrestled for many years

156. in the WWF,

157. as everything from Papa Shango to Kama,

158. joined the Nation of Domination with The Rock and that whole group.

159. And then, became my favorite person ever: The Godfather.

160. Selling white girls on TV.

161. Talking about getting high, and selling pussy.

162. I'm in the Nation of Domination now. They're building up Mark Henry.

163. The Rock's taking over.

164. So I'm like, "I gotta make a change. They do nothing with me."

165. Bruce Prichard called me and said, "We're doing this thing. You get,"

166. I think, "$10,000 if you fight and so much more if you win.

167. And you're wearing gloves." I'm like, "I'll do it."

168. Stuff I do anyway, so I was in from the beginning.

169. Darren Drozdov, one of my favorite recruits of all time,

170. from University of Maryland, he just wanted to compete.

171. They brought me in as a football player

172. to see if I could learn the sport.

173. We saw footage of him puking on an NFL game.

174. I threw up all the time. If I was throwing up,

175. if I could grab ya, you'd get one in the face.

176. I'd run into the WWE offices to have a meeting with Vince McMahon.

177. Vince loves that humor.

178. If you come up with a skit that involves puking,

179. taking a dump, peeing, he'll probably buy it.

180. He's gonna puke! He's gonna puke! He's gonna...

181. - Yeah, he's gonna puke! - Whatever it takes, you know.

182. I thought, "We'll do it this way. I'll come in as Puke."

183. It got my foot in the door or whatever,

184. and I just went from there.

185. Russo's idea is gaining traction,

186. but not everyone in the WWF is convinced it'll work.

187. I first heard about the Brawl for All,

188. I believe, at one of the TV tapings when they were mentioning

189. it was gonna be starting in the next few weeks, and as I grasped

190. what they were talking about, I got more and more concerned about it.

191. You don't know that it won't work until you try. I didn't kill the idea

192. when I heard it. There was no precedent.

193. You're putting guys into their imaginary element

194. of what they pretend they know,

195. bar fighting, when some have never been in one.

196. The wrestlers are living out their fantasies, and the result's chaos.

197. With the unusual concept

198. of combining professional wrestling and real fighting,

199. the architects of the Brawl for All make final preparations.

200. They went to all the talent and asked who wanted to participate.

201. The story was, and I didn't see this hat,

202. but the story was that

203. pairings were chosen at random by drawing names out of a hat.

204. What we did, and we did it

205. in my office, we had Savio Vega,

206. we had a brown paper bag, I wrote everyone's name on a piece of paper,

207. threw it in a bag, and Savio drew the names.

208. The first name drawn was first on the bracket, and so on and so forth.

209. That's how the brackets were made.

210. As the brackets are set, the 16 men become the official competitors

211. in wrestling's first ever legitimate prizefighting tournament.

212. You knew Steve Blackman was the real deal.

213. Then, you had a guy like Marc Mero,

214. who was a legitimate Gold Gloves champion.

215. Mark Canterbury. 6'5", 300. Punches like a bull.

216. John Layfield Bradshaw. He's a big 'ol rough and tough Texan.

217. Brakkus was a bodybuilder. He didn't have the mobility.

218. Brakkus had as much business in the Brawl for All as I would.

219. Savio Vega always had

220. a little bit of a belly, but could take care of himself.

221. Hawk'd have no problem pulling a guy's eye out, eating it,

222. - or biting his nose off his face. - Bart Gunn was hardworking, loyal.

223. - You could rely on him. - Droz was a no-fear kinda guy.

224. Bob Holly was a badass on a street level.

225. Carl Ouellet. Big-time talented kid.

226. Godfather. He beat up people, like, for a living.

227. Dan Severn, a UFC Hall of Famer.

228. A Superfight champion, a Triple Crown winner.

229. Ron Harris walked into bars for one reason, and that was to fight.

230. 2 Cold Scorpio had decided

231. he would try and break out of the Flash Funk ha-ha gimmick.

232. The one man that stands out

233. is recent WWF acquisition Steve Williams,

234. - also known to fans as Dr. Death. - He was like a little brother.

235. We brought him out of college, gave him a job.

236. Introducing, first, in the red corner,

237. from the University of Oklahoma, Steve "Dr. Death" Williams.

238. He was a homegrown sentimental favorite.

239. Four-time all-American football.

240. He was 4-time all-American wrestler, too. Toughest guy in the business.

241. Does this face look like he's ever been scared?

242. Jim Ross's boy. Took a lot of heat for saying that, but he's JR's boy.

243. You hear about the stories in Japan.

244. He just beat the Japanese up, drop 'em on their head.

245. The reason for bringing Dr. Death into WWE was to eventually have

246. a run with Stone Cold.

247. We thought if this works out and Doc can pull his way

248. through the tournament, we may have him ready for a program with Austin.

249. These guys, for years and years,

250. go out there and they have a choreographed fight.

251. You know at some point in the locker room, like,

252. these conversations really had to come up.

253. Like, how bad an ass is Steve Blackman? Now it was real.

254. Now a lot of these questions were going to be answered.

255. Scheduled over a two-month period, the Brawl for All premieres

256. June 29th, 1998, on Monday Night Raw.

257. Each match consists of three one-minute rounds

258. with five points awarded for each landed punch and each takedown.

259. The last man standing will receive a $75,000 cash prize.

260. We are watching the Brawl for All for the first time in over 20 years.

261. Look, look, look. Look, look, look at this here. Look, look. See?

262. This is great, man. Catching up.

263. God, I was 28 years old and I'm 50 now, so...

264. Maybe two, three, four hours before the match,

265. getting ready to fight a UFC fighter...

266. Well, me, I was outside with some of the girls, smoking cannabis.

267. That goes to show you, one, that I was always smoking cannabis.

268. That's not the big deal. It's, I had no fear.

269. Anybody that knows anything can tell right off the bat

270. these guys do not know how to box, it's sloppy.

271. You've gotten away from all your moves and all your set-ups.

272. It has nothing to do with wrestling.

273. Jim Ross had to explain to fans why the guys may be great wrestlers

274. but they look like drunks in a bar right now.

275. It's not just the fans who are frustrated.

276. The fights' chaos makes them difficult for anyone to follow.

277. I was so confused when everybody got signed up

278. and rules kept evolving, and are takedowns legal?

279. I don't know if that's a takedown or a knockdown...

280. Is that a takedown?

281. - That should be. - You think?

282. You've got a referee that's never refereed boxing

283. or a competitive fight.

284. You've got judges that have never judged a competitive fight.

285. When you've got stupidity

286. on this grand, biblical scale, anything is possible.

287. I mean, again, I gotta be honest with you.

288. As a pure television viewer,

289. I'm totally entertained by this.

290. Dan Severn narrowly defeats The Godfather in the first round,

291. but senses his reputation

292. as a decorated fighter is at risk if he continues on.

293. He decides to drop out of the tournament altogether,

294. which sends The Godfather into round two.

295. Nobody knew what was going on, so guys started saying,

296. "Let's just punch each other." Make it exciting.

297. Just throw punches. Somebody gets knocked out, they get knocked out.

298. I was wrestling with Bob Holly, as a tag team, The Midnight Express.

299. But my first bout and his, they put us against each other.

300. I just thought that was a really shitty way of doing it.

301. "So, yeah, we drew 'em all out of a hat.

302. That's just the way it came out." No, I'm not buying that one.

303. As the reality of the situation takes hold,

304. brotherhood and professional relationships are put aside.

305. My friend, my partner, we're gonna whack each other.

306. Started kinda weird. 'Cause we travel together.

307. We shared rooms. We ate together, go train together.

308. Said, "Well, I gotta hit him or he's gonna hit me."

309. - The leather's smackin'! - I didn't go easy.

310. - I wanted to win. - Your winner, Bodacious Bart!

311. Do you recall what it was like afterwards?

312. We had to get in the car 'cause we stayed in the same room.

313. It was a little quiet, little awkward.

314. I think we might even have had a match the next day together.

315. You know, as a tag team.

316. Vince can't keep out of anything,

317. so, even something that's a legit shoot,

318. he probably said, "As long as they're really fighting,

319. we can play with matchmaking all we want."

320. People have had the Dr. Death theory, that this was skewed

321. to Dr. Death, putting him in there with a one-eyed guy. No, it wasn't.

322. Carl Ouelett. Had sight in one eye. Should he have been in it?

323. Hell, no. What are we thinking? He's blind in one eye.

324. I don't remember who the first injury was. The first of several.

325. It was one after the other.

326. I tore my bicep, and, I mean, torn thighs and torn ACLs.

327. It was like it was jinxed.

328. Vince could have pulled the plug on this

329. any time he wanted to, but he chose not to.

330. It didn't take but one week of TV to convince me

331. that this thing has shit the bed.

332. I dreaded having another night of Brawl for All matches

333. 'cause you never knew who was gonna get hurt tonight

334. 'cause it seems to be inevitable, and enough is enough.

335. The Brawl for All tournament is already on the rocks,

336. but through the chaos, an unlikely hero is set to emerge.

337. When I was in the 9th grade, I weighed 89 pounds.

338. I was the shortest kid in class, so I got picked on constantly.

339. They slap you in the head. They push ya, trip ya.

340. Knock your books out of your hands. And then I got older,

341. grew up, got a little bigger, and went back.

342. And everybody that picked on me,

343. I went back and paid them a visit. Let 'em know what it was like.

344. After an awkward victory over his partner in the first round

345. of the Brawl for All, Bart Gunn awaits his next opponent.

346. Well, what happened was, Bruce calls me up.

347. He says, "Oh, Bart, you're gonna be fighting Dr. Death."

348. I go, "Really?" He says, "Yeah." I said, "So, you changed brackets?"

349. I go, "Bruce, why don't you leave it like it is and save us for the end?"

350. I said, "I'm happy to work with you guys.

351. Everybody knows you want him to win."

352. He goes, "No, no, we got faith in Dr. Death."

353. That tells me it was designed for him.

354. I already knew that because any time they advertised the Brawl for All,

355. they talked about Steve.

356. And I said, "Okay.

357. Let me ask you this. Will I get heat with you guys when I beat him?"

358. He goes, "Oh, no, no, no! We got confidence in him."

359. Bruce, at that time, had known Doc for a long time, like we all had,

360. and, I think, kinda giggled and said, "Sure, yeah. Knock out Dr. Death."

361. When they said that, I felt like, now they're putting him with me,

362. they have no confidence in me, I'm a nobody.

363. Why wouldn't you have confidence in Dr. Death? Is that a sin?

364. He was a fucking 4-time all-American in wrestling. In Division One.

365. They don't give that stuff away.

366. Soon as I walked in, Pat Patterson walked up to me.

367. He says, "Oh, so, you're gonna knock out Dr. Death, are ya?"

368. And at that time, I was furious.

369. It just boiled my blood 'cause they nagged at me all day.

370. They said, "Oh, yeah, you'll knock him out."

371. I get something to eat or anywhere in the hall,

372. somebody would have something to say.

373. They're all back there, they got their little clans and yacking.

374. So, just kept it all bottled up all day.

375. When that match came on, it was standing room only at those monitors.

376. It became very, very, very real.

377. As both men head to the ring,

378. Dr. Death is the overwhelming favorite.

379. At that time, I was so furious 'cause of what everybody was saying.

380. I was more tunnel vision.

381. I wasn't seeing it any other way. I was gonna beat him.

382. Stood toe-to-toe, just thinking in my mind,

383. "This is it. This is what I'm gonna have to do."

384. The stakes are high in this match-up in the Brawl for All.

385. He took me down. I was kind of surprised at that.

386. But, at some point, Bart switched up his gameplan and took Doc down.

387. He was like halfway out of the ropes and he was like, "Damn, brother."

388. I said, "Sorry. What do you want me to do? It's a shoot.

389. - It's not like we're there working." - Then, Doc tore his hamstring.

390. - I think he'll get him down. - That's a takedown!

391. Now "Dr. Death" Steve Williams has become a 300-pound one-legged man

392. in an ass-kicking contest where you need to be mobile.

393. At the end, as I caught him a couple times, he was staggering.

394. And I thought, "Man, he's fixing to go down."

395. And then it happened:

396. The big left hand by Bart Gunn clocked the Doctor!

397. - And down goes Doc. - He's out, cold, you know.

398. And I was like, "Holy shit."

399. And my heart sunk, and I got a bad feeling in my stomach

400. because I knew here went Dr. Death's WWF career.

401. Dr. Death's injuries are so severe, he's forced to undergo

402. a lengthy rehabilitation.

403. But the damage to his reputation proves far worse.

404. Within a year, he'd be out of the WWF entirely.

405. There comes Russo down the hallway.

406. I said, "Are you happy? You cost a company

407. $5 million in a night." And he looked at me, "What are you talking about?"

408. I said, "You idiot! 'Dr. Death' Steve Williams

409. just got beat on live television in front of everybody!"

410. "What's the difference? Bart Gunn'll be a star."

411. I said, "I want to kill you! I'd like to squeeze you

412. until your britches are full and your eyeballs pop out!"

413. Dr. Death, I'm sure we could have done a lot with him,

414. but it's not like he was coming in at his peak, or on his way up.

415. It's probably fair to say his best years in wrestling were behind him.

416. But, no doubt about it, you know, that injury

417. definitely cut his career short.

418. Kinda quiet when I went back.

419. Management didn't say anything to me.

420. I had all the heat on me then 'cause I just knocked out JR's boy.

421. This whole Dr. Death element

422. in the Brawl for All has been so grossly overthought

423. that it has embarrassed me about some of my peers

424. and some friends believe

425. there's another story, there's this covert action going on.

426. We'll never really know the answer. Come on. Grow up.

427. I didn't really see anybody from the office after that.

428. So, it's kinda like, you know, you guys were picking at me

429. and I did what I was gonna do.

430. Bart secures his place in the semi-finals,

431. where The Godfather awaits.

432. In the other match, Droz takes on Bradshaw.

433. Fucking back of the head, you cocksucker.

434. That's Bradshaw for you.

435. Dirty bastard.

436. Did Bradshaw know that you had built it around him?

437. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I'm sure I reminded him a couple times.

438. Should have gotten fricking points for a takedown there.

439. That was a takedown under any rule, screwy or not, it was a takedown.

440. - How would you call this one, JR? - It's close. Very close in my book.

441. I'm on Droz's side here.

442. - Here's your winner, Bradshaw! - There it is!

443. Boo! I cry bullshit.

444. Now I'm gonna be bitter for the next couple days, man.

445. You guys got me bitter.

446. I got tears in my eyes. I'm, like, fired up, like, shit.

447. And that had me wondering, of course, I don't know

448. if the people upstairs... if they wanted me to fight Bart at the time.

449. And I still think that it was... that I won the fight, but...

450. Bradshaw didn't go around bragging, 'cause he knew.

451. I so badly wanted Bradshaw to get his ass kicked.

452. That's all I cared about because he was so cocky,

453. he was so confident when he made the remark.

454. He couldn't back out now

455. because I'd be the first one to say, "Wait a minute."

456. I wanted him to get his clock cleaned. I'm being honest.

457. With only one fight left before the final,

458. it's up to Bart Gunn or The Godfather

459. to keep Bradshaw from having the last word.

460. Working at this club, right here, in the '90s.

461. And I was the manager from 5:00 in the morning to 1 in the afternoon.

462. And I hated pimps.

463. And I would say, "If there's any pimps behind this bar,

464. they'd better not be here

465. in the next 5 minutes, 'cause I'll knock you off your stool."

466. And, I swear to you, I would walk behind the bar,

467. pimp was sitting there, just crack him as hard as I could.

468. And they'd start running. But, yeah, man,

469. I used to knock people out by slapping them in their face.

470. The Godfather's second round victory over 2 Cold Scorpio

471. advances him to the final four.

472. He's just two wins away from claiming the $75,000 prize.

473. Standing in his way is tournament underdog Bart Gunn.

474. Well, this is gonna be a tough fight 'cause he's big.

475. Then I'm watching him shadowbox,

476. and I go, "Wow, he's got boxing skills, too."

477. I went into that fight way overconfident.

478. Had I smoked all day? Yeah, but I smoke all day all the time.

479. Just before I fought Bart, he says, "I'm gonna knock you out."

480. And I'm like, "Yeah, okay. Good luck."

481. Do you remember what you were thinking before that match?

482. - Hit him. Don't let him take me down. - Stone-cold face.

483. Okay. Psych myself up. Gonna come out throwing leathers.

484. And here we go. This is gonna be a slugfest, JR.

485. We were punching. I think he kinda caught me once pretty good.

486. I was like, "Wow, that stung a little."

487. And somewhere in there, he hit me

488. with something that knocked me to the ground,

489. and I remember going back to the corner saying,

490. "I don't have my legs. I don't have my legs. I don't have my legs."

491. Every single person

492. was at the monitor and nobody could believe it.

493. Bart looks for a left hand, but it's a right hand! It's a right hand!

494. It's a right hand! And The Godfather is down. He is half cold.

495. His head hit the ropes, or come real close to it,

496. went out of the ring and hanging there.

497. It's like, "Wow, I hope he's okay."

498. I mean, the reputation of The Godfather and, you know,

499. Bart being under the radar, I mean,

500. unbelievable.

501. My wife was upset 'cause she was counting on that money.

502. She was not happy about it.

503. She blamed it on me smoking. And I'm like, "Yeah..."

504. I didn't give Bart the amount of respect that I should have.

505. This is a few days after that fight.

506. I was fucked up. I couldn't walk. I had to get in a wheelchair.

507. My leg got infected. I got this cut at.

508. Maybe that was the stupidest idea in wrestling,

509. right there, 'cause a lot of people did get hurt.

510. The injuries were a big deal.

511. It meant taking guys off the line. They were at home.

512. They couldn't work or earn. That lost the company money

513. because they weren't productive. It wasn't a good thing.

514. How morally and intellectually bankrupt

515. and irresponsible do you have to be to create a situation

516. where your stars get legitimately injured

517. just to get even with a wrestler

518. who bragged about how tough he was in the locker room?

519. He can't feel good about getting in the ring with Bart. No way.

520. That point, that was like the finals.

521. There was only one more left: Bradshaw.

522. After a rollercoaster two months of combat,

523. the Brawl for All final is set.

524. A one-time long shot against the man who inspired it all.

525. Both men have trained very diligently for this contest.

526. Come out. Just a couple punches.

527. - Caught him. - Look at him go!

528. - Unbelievable! - One!

529. - Golly! - Two!

530. It's like, "Wow, it's over." Then he got back up. I was like:

531. - You okay? Let's go. - This may not last much longer.

532. - Oh, there it is. Oh, my God! - Ring the bell!

533. That's it.

534. - We're done. There's your winner. - Here's your winner, Bart Gunn!

535. Take a look at the guy that has just made a name for himself

536. - in this business and earned it... - Oh, my. Goodnight.

537. Man, he even had the jittery legs. Did you see the jumpy legs?

538. Just the smelling salt ain't doing nothing to him.

539. When he got knocked out, it was scary because his eyes weren't there

540. and he twitched, and you could tell he wasn't home awhile afterwards.

541. When he got knocked out, I could not hold back those emotions. I'm sorry.

542. This whole tournament was because of him and his mouth,

543. and there he was laying on the canvas, unconscious.

544. Bro, what... You know the old saying, "Don't..."Never ask for..."

545. How does that go?

546. "You get what you ask for," or... You know what I mean.

547. He didn't understand even then what he'd done!

548. Today, the fucking moron doesn't understand what he's done.

549. I believe he sabotaged the talent, the integrity of the business,

550. got people legitimately hurt, and killed a future superstar,

551. and doesn't realize he did anything wrong.

552. There, in a nutshell, you have the skid mark

553. on the underwear of life that is Vince Russo.

554. I'm 57 years old. Jim Cornette is my age.

555. When is this ever going to stop?

556. This might be a nine-minute story, but all right.

557. So, Vince Russo said some shit that I didn't like about me

558. on his little amateur podcast he does.

559. I want to get in his head. Because I'm playing chess

560. and he's playing checkers, I know how to layer stuff up

561. instead of just putting it out there on a plate.

562. Kenny Bowling calls me, Jim Cornette's friend,

563. and said, "Vince, I gotta tell you this, bro,

564. I had a personal conversation with Jim Cornette

565. and Jim Cornette basically told me

566. that he's going to send some of his "fans" or followers

567. to your house.

568. Now, you got to keep in mind, when I was living in Indiana,

569. we lived in a log cabin in the woods, like, off the road.

570. So I'm sitting there and I'm saying to myself, "God forbid I'm not home

571. and my wife's there by herself."

572. So, Kenny Bowling said to me, he goes, "Vince, I'm telling you,

573. you need to file a restraining order,

574. an order of protection, against Jim Cornette."

575. He said, "Because I don't think Jim will do anything,"

576. but he goes, "I think Jim would incite people to so something."

577. Russo, being an idiot,

578. immediately fell for it, he registers this restraining order.

579. They bring it, the cops knock on the door. I'm like, "What?"

580. When they told me what it was, I busted out laughing.

581. This is great, I've got him, I've got this guy, right? I'm in his head.

582. We immediately made copies of the restraining order and put it up

583. on sale on my website, and we've raised now, I think,

584. over $6000 for the WHAS Crusade for Children

585. off of selling copies of the restraining order

586. that this dickless, gutless, ball-less pussy put out on me

587. because he's so stupid, he believed that I was gonna have him killed.

588. We're grown men, it's past history, it's 10, 20 years ago.

589. How long are we going to let this go on?

590. Cornette believed in the steak of the business, Russo more of the sizzle.

591. And therein they have a tremendous controversy and conflict.

592. They'll never be on the same page in my lifetime.

593. Jim Cornette leaves a message on my answering machine,

594. threatening to kill me, threatening to kill my entire family.

595. I said, "I'd just like to tell you, you piece of shit, you motherfucker,

596. what a piece of shit you are and how you escaped getting put

597. in a fucking hospital by me with a baseball bat

598. for all you did to me, my friends,

599. the careers you ruined, and the shitty wrestling.

600. I wanted to make sure you knew from my own lips!"

601. And I'm just like, "Bro, this is wrestling. Like, are you serious?

602. Like, you're gonna kill me over professional wrestling?"

603. "Why is he doing this to me? Just over wrestling?

604. Just over wrestling?" That's what it's always been because he just...

605. "I can't believe that he'd do this to me just over wrestling!"

606. When wrestling has been the most important thing in my life.

607. With the disastrous Brawl for All finally over,

608. Bart Gunn's proven to be the toughest guy in the locker room.

609. He was ready to jump-start his career,

610. but he was in for a brutal awakening.

611. These are the gloves they gave me for winning the Brawl for All.

612. It is my privilege and honor to present you

613. with these golden boxing gloves.

614. What was your reaction to winning this whole thing?

615. It was great. I said, "I'll finally get a push."

616. Jim Ross comes up, talks to me.

617. He says, "We didn't think anybody could take Steve off his feet.

618. We shoulda did our homework on you better."

619. And I said, "Probably so. I tried to work with you guys, and..."

620. And he says, "Well, there's no hard feelings."

621. And I think as soon as he said that, I thought, "Wow, I do got some heat."

622. After his victory in the Brawl for All,

623. Bart Gunn is awaiting his big career push.

624. The WWF are now faced with the problem

625. of what to do with a wrestler they didn't expect to win.

626. It was always the plan

627. that whoever would win would get a big promotional push.

628. When it was Bart, wind came out of those sails.

629. I'm not knocking Bart Gunn. Great athlete. Good wrestler. Good guy.

630. But the way he had been presented for the previous five years

631. was at a level here, not here.

632. Examine the facts.

633. Nobody got over. Not one son of a bitch that fought

634. in that Brawl for All got over, end of story.

635. They send me home and they don't know what to do with me.

636. Vince Russo called me up and he said, "Bart,

637. we don't really know what type of storyline gimmick to put you in."

638. And I kind of sat home for a long time not doing anything.

639. The longer I sat at home, the more frustrating it was.

640. They let him twist in the wind awhile,

641. then Vince McMahon got the idea 'cause it's a gimmick, Butterbean.

642. Let him fight Butterbean at WrestleMania.

643. My understanding is, when Bart knocked out Dr. Death,

644. Vince got pissed, so they called me in for his punishment.

645. Butterbean's an overachiever.

646. He's got that bald head, he's very white.

647. He looks like some sort of appliance. But, boy, does he hit. Oh, my God.

648. Eric Esch, aka, Butterbean,

649. is a 300-pound professional prizefighter

650. with more than 50 wins under his belt.

651. What he lacks in technique,

652. he more than makes up for with raw hitting power.

653. So, at some point, it was suggested Butterbean

654. and Bart have a boxing match because Butterbean was

655. a great personality, great for wrestling.

656. I think it was presented to me and, you know, I was like,

657. "You know, I don't, you know... Sure, I guess."

658. I was tired of sitting at home.

659. And they said, "We'll send you to a boxing school."

660. And they started teaching me how to box.

661. The crossover match serves as the promotional push Bart's waiting for

662. and a chance for the WWF

663. to cash in on Butterbean's mainstream popularity.

664. The man that will face Butterbean, Bart Gunn.

665. I'm not training just to beat him. I'm training to knock him out.

666. Me, Butterbean and Gillberg, we were chilling.

667. I think me and Gill were smoking. Butterbean wasn't.

668. We were talking about it.

669. Butterbean, he said, "Listen, I've already told Vince."

670. He goes, "You guys are tough guys, I give you that.

671. But you're not professional fighters.

672. I will beat that kid in seconds. It's two different sports.

673. He has no chance against me."

674. Vince smiled at me when I went into the ring.

675. He knew it was over for Bart.

676. He knew that I would knock him out, and he wanted me to.

677. Walking into WrestleMania was like no experience I've ever had

678. up to that point. This place was huge.

679. On March 28th, 1999, the WWF resurrects the Brawl for All concept

680. on their largest stage, WrestleMania XV.

681. A talented amateur can't stand up next to a professional in any field.

682. There was no reason to believe that, even though Bart was a great athlete

683. and Butterbean was a big, fat baked potato with arms and legs...

684. Butterbean was a trained and experienced professional boxer.

685. I didn't feel how I felt with the other fights, 'cause I'm different.

686. I'm a boxer now and I got this other persona.

687. Here we go, round one, Brawl for All.

688. Butterbean and Bart Gunn.

689. I remember being in the crowd. Something was off.

690. This wasn't the guy that I saw knock out The Godfather,

691. and the guy that I saw knock out Bradshaw.

692. This wasn't one of those fights.

693. I'm there as a green boxer trying like, "Hold my hands like this.

694. Hold my feet like this."

695. When Bart tried to box, I said, "I got him."

696. So, I just gave him a couple good shots, put him to the mat.

697. And then, I'm like, "Man, I hope he don't get up.

698. It'll be bad if he does 'cause he's wobbling."

699. When Vinny let it go on, I'm going, "You don't need to. He's out of it."

700. - I gave him one last right hand. - That's the right hand. It's over.

701. - Goodbye! - It's over.

702. His head actually turned around backwards.

703. My kids come home from school and they were upset.

704. They go, "Dad, my friends told me you killed a guy on TV!

705. You killed Gunn!" I said, "He's not dead. He just looked like it."

706. I'll be honest, he would have had a 50/50 chance

707. if he brawled like he did with the other guys.

708. But with me, he tried to box, which was stupid.

709. Very disappointed. Very, very mad at myself.

710. You know, just wasn't happy at all.

711. After WrestleMania, I knew I was done.

712. There wasn't a future left there for me at all.

713. It was the end. That was the end there for me in the States.

714. Lot of old stuff here.

715. You said you hadn't watched the Butterbean fight.

716. Can you talk about why that's the case?

717. I don't know if I want that on air, but...

718. I just never watched it. I was mad at myself that I made some mistakes.

719. But it stuck in the back of my mind,

720. and then I saw, when I was in Japan, Butterbean.

721. I saw he was there, doing MMA.

722. I thought, "This is interesting." I always wanted a second chance.

723. And then I said, "You know, I'm gonna do MMA," and I got a fight

724. with Wesley Cabbage, and Butterbean fought him.

725. Butterbean beat him in the second or third round.

726. Went over there, my first MMA fight, and stopped it in the first round.

727. I said, "I won quicker than Butterbean did."

728. One night, said, "Hey, we got you a match with Butterbean."

729. "Oh, really? Great!" Said, "We want you to fight Friday."

730. That's in four days. I said, "No, no.

731. I learned from my mistakes. If you set up a match

732. with Butterbean, I want 12 weeks to train." That didn't happen.

733. Coulda turned out the same, he coulda beat me again,

734. but I woulda got to do it a bit better, my way.

735. This may sound crazy to people, but that's just the way I'm driven.

736. And then, time passed and I had some things happen in my life.

737. After that, I was done with fighting and then I didn't do any more.

738. I miss being

739. at the curtain and going through it, and out, and performing.

740. You got the excitement, the crowd, the adrenaline rush.

741. Me going to work, there's not an adrenaline rush there.

742. But I enjoy sleeping in my bed every night

743. and having my dinner at the house.

744. You get tired of eating out all your meals.

745. You know, seven days a week. So...

746. Droz's career in the WWF would continue for another year

747. until a tragic accident changed his life forever.

748. Do you mind if I ask questions

749. - about your injury? - No problem.

750. Prior to it happening, what was your plan for wrestling?

751. You know, I really had no clue.

752. And the funny part is, I was actually gonna win that match.

753. I didn't get a lot of wins.

754. Droz was wrestling D'Lo Brown one night.

755. And D'Lo was a very smooth, accomplished wrestler.

756. We were just gonna do a powerbomb, and he had powerbombed me before.

757. When he picked me up, I don't know if I slipped.

758. I have this... These memories

759. are seared in my brain perfectly, which stinks.

760. Pulled him up and we didn't go. And we just fell forward.

761. Going back down, I'm like, "This isn't right."

762. I couldn't get my hands down.

763. And I just remember hearing "crack, crack."

764. And I just went, "Oh, fuck, I just broke my neck."

765. I said, "Stop messing with me. Are you okay?"I can't move."

766. One cardinal rule is, you leave the ring the same way you went in.

767. I remember crying, saying I was sorry. "I'm sorry.

768. It should never happen."

769. Droz is going, "It's okay, dog. It's okay."

770. Nothing we could have done would have changed. It just happens.

771. So... But he's a good guy, man.

772. I still wished him the best last time I saw him.

773. Neither of us... We talked about it, we don't know what happened.

774. Neither has blamed the other.

775. It's one of those unfortunate accidents that happened.

776. Bottom line is, I'm here. Still alive and still kicking.

777. Well, not kicking, really, but... Can't kick, but I still go out.

778. I hunt. You know, I do all the things that I can do.

779. It's just, you learn to do things differently.

780. Droz is still paralyzed to this day. It's been more than 20 years.

781. Things happen, you know, in this business.

782. And it's not ballet. And that's why it

783. especially angers me when people diminish it.

784. One move, he's been in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

785. Don't tell me that wrestling's a bunch of bullshit.

786. Just some of the ways that

787. people that have gotten into it treat it, is bullshit.

788. - I feel bad. - How come?

789. Because I don't want to see anybody get hit like that, man. Oh, my God.

790. Especially now with just all the stuff we know

791. about head trauma and everything, man.

792. Oh, man.

793. I should have been thinking,

794. "These guys are out of their element."

795. With what we know about concussions,

796. just knowing all that today, which we didn't know back then,

797. no way, no way would I ever propose it again.

798. Brawl for All should be remembered for what it was, a cluster.

799. It sucked. There's no reason to embrace it.

800. It was simply a bad idea that featured a lot of guys

801. looking to get a rub in a new event.

802. That's what it was developed to do, create some new stars.

803. New rubs. New opportunities. And it just didn't do it.

804. The Brawl for All remains

805. the only prizefighting tournament to be put on by the WWE.

806. What could have been career-defining for its champion

807. instead became a stark reminder

808. of how wrestling's winners are always chosen in the boardroom.

809. Bruce has said that the Brawl for All is the, quote,

810. "Worst idea in the history of the business."

811. I agree with that. But they're the ones that put it on.

812. So, explain that one.

813. I think they should learn from their mistakes

814. and probably should never do it again.

815. Should just kinda let it disappear.