- 1. Mike Painter is here with me.
- 2. He's called "America's
- 3. and his new book is "Shaping the Past."
- 4. I'm happy to have Mike
Painter back on the show.
- 5. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- 6. So did becoming a father
- 7. change how you look at childhood?
- 8. Yeah, I think so.
- 9. You know, at the same time,
- 10. adulthood is just a mask,
- 11. a sophisticated mask, for sure.
- 12. But behind it, we're
all still the kids we were.
- 13. Now, in the book, you
talk about your childhood.
- 14. Uh, you lost a twin
brother when you were 12?
- 15. In 1988, in Iron Hill, Ohio,
- 16. where I was born, um,
- 17. five kids went missing.
- 18. The Iron Hill murders.
- 19. Never solved.
- 20. Yeah.
- 21. The last victim, the
one they never found
- 22. was my brother, Eddie.
- 23. You were identical twins.
- 24. Losing a twin is like having a...
- 25. A phantom limb.
- 26. How does a family deal
with something like that?
- 27. My father was out of the picture.
- 28. My mother couldn't cope.
- 29. Um, I was sent to live with relatives.
- 30. I've never been back to Iron Hill.
- 31. I want to do something unusual.
- 32. I have someone on the phone.
- 33. 12 years old.
- 34. His family's gone
through a tragedy as well.
- 35. I'd like you to talk to him.
- 36. Show us what you do.
- 37. I don't know if that's appro...
- 38. Are you there?
- 39. Hello?
- 40. My name's Dr. Painter.
- 41. I'm a...
- 42. I'm a doctor who kids like you talk to
- 43. about stuff that's on their mind.
- 44. Is there anything you
want to talk to me about?
- 45. Can you tell me your name?
- 46. What is this?
- 47. Is that your TV?
- 48. Turn it off.
- 49. Turn it off.
- 50. Mike.
- 51. Why are you scared to come home?
- 52. Mike?
- 53. Why are you scared to come home?
- 54. American goldfinch.
- 55. Now he's just part of the yard.
- 56. Hey.
- 57. I wanted to surprise you.
- 58. You sure know how.
- 59. Miss Marla, who is that?
- 60. Hi, I'm Mike. What's your name?
- 61. This is Katie.
- 62. Miss Marla?
- 63. It's my son.
- 64. He is a lurker, this cat.
- 65. I swear, he kills for sport.
- 66. So you're a vegetarian, then?
- 67. Well, I-I don't eat songbirds.
- 68. What?
- 69. No pictures of me or Eddie...
- 70. or Dad.
- 71. Well, don't take it personally.
- 72. It's just a matter of managing
- 73. intrusive thoughts.
- 74. Yeah.
- 75. Thanks a lot, Mom. It really is, um...
- 76. Why have you come? Just tell me.
- 77. No, I... I'm so happy to see you.
- 78. You are welcome here.
- 79. It's just...
- 80. I hope you haven't
come to rip open a wound.
- 81. Once every two years, someone
turns up in Iron Hill
- 82. to solve those murders.
- 83. I've always been afraid that...
- 84. one day it would be you.
- 85. Yeah, but nothing was stolen?
- 86. Okay, uh, Bob will take your
statement, Mr. Crumm.
- 87. Okay.
- 88. Hey, Bob! Line one.
- 89. Yes? Can I help you?
- 90. Hi, there, uh, my name is Mike Painter.
- 91. Oh! Hi.
- 92. Uh... my mom saw you on Dr. Phil
- 93. and got very excited.
- 94. I-I mean, I saw you, too.
- 95. So, uh, what brings you here?
- 96. I was actually wondering if I could...
- 97. Holy shit.
- 98. Yeah.
- 99. Wow. Mike Painter.
- 100. - Gary.
- It's good to see you.
- 101. Actually, uh, I was hoping
we could have a quick word.
- 102. - Absolutely.
- 103. We'll go to my office.
- 104. Nice to meet you.
- 105. It was a pleasure to meet you, too.
- 106. - Right?
- Yeah, it's...
- 107. Okay, so Billy Reese was on first.
- 108. And then, uh, there was someone...
some kid on second,
- 109. and you were on third.
- 110. Yeah, and you don't remember.
- 111. No, no, no, no, I-I remember.
- 112. So they went and elected you sheriff.
- 113. - This is...
- 114. Congratulations.
- 115. Look, it's not exactly the wild west.
- 116. I mean, we got drunk
people doing drunk things, and...
- 117. Right now there's some mystery man...
- 118. He's, uh... he's going
around breaking into houses
- 119. without stealing anything.
I don't know. It's just...
- 120. Didn't the Manson Family do that?
- 121. Uh, past troubles aside,
- 122. we're a little bit more
- 123. than Manson Family around here,
- 124. but enough on all that.
- 125. What about you?
- 126. We've... w-w-we've kept on
you. I-I even read your book.
- 127. Oh, man, that's, um...
- 128. That's kind of you.
- 129. Well, speaking of past
troubles, you know,
- 130. Gary, I was hoping I could
take a look at those files.
- 131. Do you mind if I ask why?
- 132. I mean, it's been, uh...
- 133. 28 years since they dragged
those kids out of the woods.
- 134. Yeah, minus their teeth.
- 135. Look, Mike, all... All
I'm saying is that, uh,
- 136. a lot of folks,
- 137. just like you and your
mom, lost people back then.
- 138. So...
- 139. I'm not saying no.
- 140. I guess I'm just saying, why now?
- 141. I'm writing a book.
- 142. Really?
- 143. Is it gonna be a good book?
- 144. I hope so.
- 145. What I mean is, is it gonna
be a respectful book?
- 146. Above all else.
- 147. Absolutely.
- 148. Mike, you know that I-I
didn't get stuck here, right?
- 149. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's...
- 150. But did you know that
I married Jessica Hale?
- 151. I did hear that.
- 152. She would be right annoyed
- 153. if I didn't invite
you for dinner tonight.
- 154. - No.
- No, no, no. No, no, no.
- 155. There's a lot of people
coming, and, uh...
- 156. and I think I can help
you with those files.
- 157. But...
- 158. I need your expert opinion on my kid.
- 159. Yeah, I-I-I think he's growing up
- 160. a little bit strange.
- 161. Do we have a casino?
- 162. Weren't we supposed to get
one, a casino, in this town?
- 163. We don't build anything here.
- 164. - Well, whose fault is that?
- I'll tell you.
- 165. - Oh, here we go.
- Steam to diesel.
- 166. When the railroad
switched from steam to diesel,
- 167. - that is what killed us.
- No. Community.
- 168. How kids are raised.
- 169. Now everything's all disconnected.
- 170. What? Now everything's all connected.
- 171. Now any perv can reach through the Wi-Fi
- 172. and grope my daughter.
- 173. We don't even keep a TV in the house.
- 174. I'll tell you something else.
- 175. This is not even a town. It's a museum.
- 176. But you got to modernize.
Take the station.
- 177. If the county gave us funds,
- 178. what we could do with that.
- 179. Well... yeah, and when you're sheriff,
- 180. - I think you should do that.
- 181. When I'm sheriff, the
first thing I do is
- 182. take down that stupid
painting in your office.
- 183. - She's got you there.
- I know.
- 184. - Dad?
- I love this town.
- 185. I absolutely love it. I
love it just the way it is.
- 186. And you know that... Hey, buddy.
- 187. Katie's been watching TV forever.
- 188. I want to watch "Labyrinth."
- 189. - It's a tough life, bud.
- Dane, honey,
- 190. you tell your sister it's time for bed.
- 191. And you too... No more TV.
- 192. Good night.
- 193. Don't.
- 194. Mike.
- 195. I mentioned this earlier.
- 196. That kid is obsessed with David Bowie.
- 197. That's strange, right?
- 198. You're lucky it's not ABBA.
- 199. I wouldn't worry about it.
- 200. See?
- 201. I mean, we were pretty strange,
- 202. remember?
- 203. We had our own imaginary kingdom.
- 204. You and Eddie made it up.
- 205. And you were the kings, both of you.
- 206. And the card game that never ended.
- 207. What's that?
- 208. Well, me and Eddie started
playing cards one day...
- 209. Uh, War, and this one game just...
- 210. went on and on.
- 211. There was no winner.
- 212. So, um,
- 213. we picked it up the
next day and the next.
- 214. And after a while, I
think we just wanted to see
- 215. how long it would go on.
- 216. How long did it?
- 217. Well, I guess technically it still is.
- 218. And every Saturday...
- 219. Every Saturday,
- 220. me, you, and Eddie
- 221. would watch hours
- 222. - of TV.
- Of TV.
- 223. - Oh.
- 224. Oh, see? You turned out fine.
- 225. - There you go.
- She turned out fine.
- 226. - Yeah.
- Well, Mike's the expert.
- 227. Why don't we ask him?
- 228. What do you think?
- 229. Too much TV bad for kids?
- 230. Of course it is. Where's the bathroom?
- 231. Down the stairs, just to the left.
- 232. Katie?
- 233. Hey, guess what.
- 234. You're friends with my mom, and
I'm friends with your mom.
- 235. Shh.
- 236. Why are we being quiet?
- 237. It went away.
- 238. Katie, what were you watching?
- 239. Right out in the middle, there's
this piece of luggage...
- 240. I don't know, it's one of
these fancy labels, right?
- 241. Something... Whatever, it's nice.
- 242. And she goes, "It's stuck," right?
- 243. And I just said, "Hey.
- 244. How'd it get there?"
- 245. - You did not say that.
- I did, I did...
- 246. You guys remember "Candle Cove"?
- 247. That show? Right?
- 248. It was on for,
like a couple of months...
- 249. Two months. September, October, '88.
- 250. I remember.
- 251. Did you ever tell your kids about it?
- 252. Oh, hell, no.
- 253. Well, Katie told me she just saw it.
- 254. - What, just now?
- 255. No.
- 256. I mean, why would they re-air that?
- 257. What are you guys talking about?
- 258. That show used to give
me the worst nightmares...
- 259. Those puppets.
- 260. I used to have this really
weird recurring dream.
- 261. They would just be screaming.
- 262. No, that was an episode.
- 263. No, not possible. It
was a nightmare I had.
- 264. Remember Jawbone?
- 265. What is Jawbone?
- 266. Jawbone... He was this,
- 267. this old skeleton thing in
a robe and a black hat.
- 268. And he'd always be chasing
around Pirate Percy, right?
- 269. And he'd say,
- 270. "When I catch you,
- 271. I'm gonna skin your hide..."
- 272. Oh, easy there. Easy there.
- 273. Had a... had a little bit...
Little bit much to drink, Mike?
- 274. I'm fine.
- 275. Um, thanks for dinner.
- 276. You guys keep walking down
memory lane with this shit.
- 277. I'm gonna go home.
- 278. - You brought it up.
- It's just a TV show, Mike.
- 279. What was that?
- 280. Mm...
- 281. Eddie, let's go around.
- 282. Eddie!
- 283. He's just gonna do it again!
- 284. Eddie!
- 285. Pay the toll?
- 286. Shove it up your ass.
- 287. Little bitch.
- 288. Just like your dad.
- 289. Shut up.
- 290. How come he left?
- 291. Fu... you.
- 292. 'Cause he doesn't love you?
- 293. Rather have no dad than one like yours.
- 294. Whoa!
- 295. - Hit him, Gene!
- Yeah, get him!
- 296. Let him go!
- 297. Stop, Gene! Get off me!
- 298. Gary!
- 299. Get over here and get his arm!
- 300. Do it!
- 301. Help! Stop! No!
- 302. - Yeah, Gene!
- 303. Can he feel it if I hurt you?
- 304. Aah!
- 305. - Let him go!
- 306. You feel that? Does that hurt, Mike?
- 307. Mike, does this hurt?
- 308. Oh, my God.
- 309. Get out of here!
- 310. Good job.
- 311. - Good job, man.
- 312. Eddie?
- 313. Sorry.
- 314. Don't tell Mom?
- 315. I won't.
- 316. Sorry.
- 317. Ahoy, mates.
- 318. What adventure awaits?
- 319. Do you sense it?
- 320. Something is coming.
- 321. A stray vessel headed for the cove.
- 322. Welcome to Candle Cove.
- 323. Mike?
- 324. You sleepwalked.
- 325. Yeah. Old habits die hard.
- 326. Your brother used to do it more.
- 327. I've been having nightmares.
- 328. So that's why you came back.
- 329. Well, I hope it helps you sleep.
- 330. Yeah.
- 331. I'm gonna be back in an hour or two.
- 332. What?
- 333. There's someone in the woods.
- 334. People walk in the woods.
- 335. But he was standing still.
- 336. Maybe he had a stray thought.
- 337. My boys are up early.
- 338. Well, I rise with the sun, baby.
- 339. S-U-N or S-O-N?
- 340. Buddy, where's your sister?
- 341. I don't know. Still in bed, I guess.
- 342. Good morning, honey.
- 343. Katie?
- 344. Katie?
- 345. Katie?
- 346. Honey? Katie?
- 347. And now back to more great music
- 348. on this beautiful morning on WKRP...
- 349. - Thanks, Daphne.
- You got it.
- 350. - Another refill on your coffee?
- 351. I'll have some. Thanks.
- 352. The women have walked in the woods.
- 353. The women have walked in the woods.
- 354. Past participle.
- 355. In?
- 356. Present perfect tense.
- 357. Indicating something...
- 358. That started in the
past but continues until now.
- 359. You always were a studious kid, Mike.
- 360. Well, you always were a
grammar Nazi, Mrs. Booth.
- 361. Mike?
- 362. Katie!
- 363. Honey, where are you?
- 364. - Katie!
- 365. Katie!
- 366. Katie!
- 367. Sweetheart!
- 368. Katie!
- 369. Katie!
- 370. - Sweetheart!
- 371. Katie!
- 372. Sweetie?
- 373. Come on, let's go another way.
- 374. Eddie.
- 375. Don't!
- 376. What happened to your hand?
- 377. Your daddy kiss it for you?
- 378. Oh, right.
- 379. What, Eddie?
- 380. You want something?
- 381. What the hell's wrong with you?
- 382. Come on, Tim.
- 383. Something's up with that kid.
- 384. Go.
- 385. Shit. Run!
- 386. Katie!
- 387. So...
- 388. that show?
- 389. Did you bring it up, or
did Katie bring it up?
- 390. She did. Why?
- 391. Katie!
- 392. Oh, it's just, uh...
- 393. weird they'd just air it again.
- 394. Right?
- 395. Нeah, yeah, I-I... yeah.
- 396. Katie!
- 397. Did she say what channel it was on?
- 398. Um... no.
- 399. I need to talk to you.
- 400. Katie!
- 401. Marla told us that she heard you
- 402. come in at 3:00 a.m. last night...
- 403. Five hours after you left our house.
- 404. I...
- 405. I-I mean, I walked around. I...
- 406. I'm asking you, parent to parent,
- 407. what are you not telling me?
- 408. This will sound irrational.
- 409. Say it.
- 410. That show may have something
to do with this.
- 411. What show?
- 412. "Candle Cove"?
- 413. Yeah, listen,
- 414. in '88, the only
time the show ever aired
- 415. was during the murders.
- 416. When the show
stopped, the murders stopped.
- 417. And... and... and... and...
and now it just shows back up again.
- 418. I just need you to
tell me where you went
- 419. last night after you left.
- 420. I know how it sounds, but I'm not crazy.
- 421. You're not crazy.
- 422. Believe me, it's not
just a television show, okay?
- 423. It did something to my brother,
- 424. and it can make people do odd things.
- 425. And... and I seem to be the
only one that's putting this...
- 426. I know about Stovington.
- 427. I'm... I'm not...
- 428. crazy.
- 429. I-I had a, um...
- 430. You were released from a psych ward
- 431. three days ago.
- 432. I mean, you must have come
- 433. straight here after the hospital.
- 434. No, I-I went home the first night.
- 435. My wife let me stop by to get clothes.
- 436. That doesn't matter.
- 437. Listen, um, I had what's called
- 438. an acute stress reaction.
- 439. They say you had a
psychotic episode, Mike.
- 440. You're a doctor. Tell
me what that means.
- 441. No, I-I committed myself voluntarily.
- 442. I'm asking you one last time.
- 443. What did you do, and where
did you go last night?
- 444. Listen, it is not me, Jessica.
It's connected to that show.
- 445. Now, whoever made that show...
- 446. Oh, my God. Gary!
- 447. Mike?
- 448. Shit.
- 449. Gary!
- 450. Amy!
- 451. Jess? Jess!
- 452. - Gary.
- Jess, do you have her?
- 453. - No, no.
- Hey, babe, what's wrong?
- 454. It's Mike.
- 455. I think...
- 456. I think he knows something.
- 457. I think he knows where she is.
- Okay, we'll find him.
- 458. Spread out! Hit the tree line!
- 459. She said you'd come talk to me.
- 460. Do you know where she is?
- 461. Dane, do you love your sister?
- 462. Do you want to see her again?
- 463. Did she tell you where she was going?
- 464. What's the Crow's Nest?
- 465. Where's Dad's gun?
- 466. What do you want a 30-year-old gun for?
- 467. Just in case.
- 468. I got rid of that gun years ago.
- 469. Tell me what's going on.
- 470. There's no time. It
could already be too late.
- 471. Gary called. He said you're sick, Mike.
- 472. They didn't understand in 1988,
- 473. and they don't understand now.
- 474. And you do?
- 475. Just... just get me a
chance to try to get her back
- 476. before it's too late.
- 477. Where are you going?
- 478. Out there.
- 479. Out past the woods, where
the signal tower is.
- 480. Out where they found the bodies?
- 481. I have to go. Let me go.
- 482. Katie!
- 483. Katie!
- 484. Who's back there?
- 485. - Mike?
- 486. Are you okay?
- 487. Are you okay?
- 488. Come here.
- 489. She says the TV told her where to go.
- 490. How'd you know to find
her out by the signal tower
- 491. of all places?
- 492. I just needed a place to think.
- 493. Me and Eddie used to call
that spot the Crow's Nest.
- 494. And you just
happened to find Katie there.
- 495. I brought your daughter
back, man, you know.
- 496. Yeah, minus a couple teeth.
- 497. Let's just say that I
still have questions.
- 498. You learn to live with those.
- 499. See you, buddy. I'm out of here.
- 500. - All right.
- See you later.
- 501. Thanks.
- 502. Mike.
- 503. "America's child
psychologist saves little girl,"
- 504. is that it?
- 505. Katie's gonna be okay. Just...
- 506. don't let her watch TV.
- 507. Spare me, okay? Just
put it in your book.
- 508. There is no book.
- 509. There never was.
- 510. Then what are you doing here?
- 511. It's been calling me.
- 512. Packing up?
- 513. You don't have to leave.
- 514. Yeah, yeah, I do.
- 515. Out of sight...
- 516. out of mind.
- 517. Do you remember "Candle Cove"?
- 518. Yeah, of course.
- 519. After I left, did you ever see it again?
- 520. What?
- 521. Um, never mind.
- 522. Forget I mentioned it.
- 523. Who made it up?
- 524. Made what up?
- 525. I'm talking about the
show we watched, the TV show.
- 526. Oh, no, it...
- 527. The show I'm talking about wasn't real.
- 528. You used to sit, watching the TV...
- 529. just watching the static.
- 530. It was just in your heads.
- 531. Oh, no, Laughingstock.
- 532. That's a whale of a storm.
- 533. We better find someplace to hide.
- 534. Oh, look, it's Bravery Cave.
- 535. You have to go inside.
- 536. Come inside, Percy.
- 537. There's a new friend in there.
- 538. And he wants to play a game.
- 539. But... I don't know how to play.
- 540. He'll show you exactly what to do.
- 541. Come on.
- 542. I'll hold your hand.
- 543. Mike, where are you going?
- 544. We're just getting started again.